I don't love my husband anymore

[Womblemom]

After 20 years together, and 15 years married, I told my husband I don't love him any more in early December. I told him I couldn't see us growing old together and I wanted a divorce.

We haven't had a big relationship crisis such as an affair, money problems or arguments.

We have three kids together who are all still at school. For years he has worked hard and I have done the lions share of domestic and childcare stuff, We have no support from family and we don't live close to them.

We live in a suburban area of London. For about 10 years I have longed to live where I grew up in the Cotswolds. I find where we live really dull and have no real friends there, despite living here for 10 years. Five years ago, I became depressed and was put on anti depressants. I received CBT through NHS counselling where we talked through my issues. These were mainly having undiagnosed post natal depression after the birth of my second child and ongoing feelings of helplessness and loneliness, stemming from dissatisfaction in my marriage. My husband worked long hours when the children were small and still kept up his hobbies. He plays golf every weekend for at least one day. He has always been more forceful at getting his way in our relationship.

I tried discussing needing to move back when I was depressed years ago, this ended up in a few arguments. In the last one, my husband said he would never have married me if he knew I'd wanted to move out of London. To be honest, I was shocked that anyone wouldn't want to move out of London so it didn't come up before we married. All of our friends have moved out of London over the years.

My husband has never paid me a compliment when we've been married, never holds my hand or acts affectionally. Sex became another job around the house, I did it because if we stopped, we wouldn't be married anymore.

The kids are older now, two are at secondary school, and I have reached crisis point, I just don't love him. I have started to fall other people and I just need to be with someone else. I long for this, my heart aches to be with someone else.

We have a lot of equity on our home and I can afford to move home without him if we divide our assets. I don't have a firm plan but would like to move back to the Cotswolds and be near real friends, not isolated here.

After telling my husband that I wanted a divorce, he has transformed into the most amazing husband, the friends that he has confided in are shocked and they keep telling me how "sad" they are about our news, and how perfect we are. I know this isn't true in my soul. My husband is adamant that we "try" but I genuinely don't know what that means. How can I force myself to love someone? I feel lost, at sea, and would prefer to move forward with separation as it feels so phoney. We are at Relate and it has been no help whatsoever. In fact it has made us argue more.

Please can anyone comment if you have been in the same situation or fell out of love? I am being made to feel that it is simply a matter of time and things can be magical again simply but talking and doing couple's exercises. Has anyone else found Relate useful? Any shared experiences? Most of my friends are not independent from our relationship and simply want us to stay together for the children. I long to be without him.

Am I making a big mistake or am I being brave in saying how I really feel. Help! :(

@MBL Yes - it would be ideal for us to stay closer but the finances would not allow. He would be welcome to move nearer us, and I would suggest that, but I can see that is unreasonable if he doesn't want to. Thanks for your comment.

In all this, you haven't mentioned how the children feel about their father, and how they might feel about moving away and only seeing him on alternate weekends.
(My parents moved to somewhere rural when I was a teenage and I hated it. Social life was either cider and a spliff in the bus shelter, or wild parties at someone's house. This Country is practically a documentary)

Have you ever discussed a potential move with the kids to gauge their response? It might be worth having a tentative talk to see what they think at this stage so you can factor in their opinions.

We've done it a few times over the years as job opportunities can often mean big relocations both temporary (under 1 year) or more permanent. Eldest has consistently been against a move, even if one parent would live abroad. Younger one is more flexible. I think it helps to have an idea what kids want and how strong their feelings are to shape you decisions.

@TheGoddessFrigg At the moment, we can't talk to them about it as the separation isn't finalised which is tricky. However, I would ask them how they feel definitely, and take their views into account. BTW I know what you mean about moving somewhere rural, however its not what I would describe as rural where I'm planning on moving. There is a lot more there now, the same sort of entertainments accessible that we have here (shopping, bowling, cinema etc). There is a better community vibe, people are closer and friendlier. When I go there I often have an entertaining chat with a stranger on a dog walk about something totally random. Here, people think I'm insane if I say good morning.

OP, how would you feel if you were given the go ahead to move to where you want to be but your husband continues to work and live in London during the week. He could get a house share or small flat with the profit you would make? He could then come home at weekends? Do you think you could get some feelings back if he made this sacrifice for you or do you think your feelings are completely gone and won’t come back. If so then this won’t work.

You would get space from each other and the kids could restart. It doesn’t sound like private school is neccesarily the best place for them anyway so you may be wasting money there. Good local schools in the Cotswolds may be appropriate. dont fixate on Outstanding ofsted either. Some of those inspections took place years ago.

If they do most of their socialising online then it doesn’t really matter where they live and they will make new friends.

You don’t need to get kids permission to make adult decisions. They won’t ask you for permission when they decide to leave home.

If you are absolutely intent on splitting and moving- then by all means do it- by the way if he's on his own- he doesn't 'have' to buy and it be a fleapit in a shit area- he can just rent something nice- especially if you have lots of equity and he is high earning. If the kids have to share rooms when they visit then so be it- just allow for the fact you may have to do a fair bit of taking them back and forth- although he can do this too ! Divorce isn't fair it doesn't neatly split into two nice 4 bed houses and a quick walk around the corner in many many cases- Be prepared for a step mother to be on the scene pretty quickly- in my experience men seek out a substitute partner very very quickly

OP - i think you are being selfish and naive at the same time.

Selfish - because you haven’t bothered in many years to integrate and make friends. And blaming your H for how you feel. And think it’s OK to demand 4 people move to for you to be happier.

Naive - because i don’t think you understand what divorce actually means. And what you’ll be entitled to.

I do think (hope?) it’s your depression talking when you are going through scenarios of you just leaving and abandoning your kids; or exploding their lives on your whim.
Depression doesn’t work like this, btw. You won’t be magically cured if you move.
And visiting friends isn’t the same as moving there to live. You haven’t lived in that area as a grown up, or as a parent.

Finally - if, when i was married for several years, with kids - my then H said he suddenly needed us all to move somewhere very different to where we were - i’d have the same reaction as your H did. Things like that need to he discussed and agreed before marriage.

@jsku

I have covered the issues you criticise me for in previous posts. I have been on the mum scene here for 10 years. I've done all the playgroups, school runs, PTA, mums meet ups, NCT, I even tried church. All these relationships were superficial, a hello , a chat, a coffee or two. I have had closer relationships but all faded once our kids were at seperate secondary schools. I have invited local friends out to concerts, events, meals, drinks.l, free tickets when I had a spare. I had a large 40th birthday, invited loads of locals. Never been invited to any of their milestone celebrations, despite hearing about them from others. The truth is, they all have existing friendships. They see me as a B List mate. Someone to chat to on the street, but not the person they call if the have a spare ticket or a party to go to. It is very cliquey and many friendship groups centre around nationality, language, culture, religion. I'm not going to be invited to coffee with the Chinese mums, or Thanksgiving with the American families, they already have their own network. I have stood in playgrounds as the only English speaker, unable to join in conversations between mums of different languages. To label me as selfish for not trying is both unkind and not true. My husband has close friends in the area but these are all old friends from school or Uni. It just so happens that all my closest, oldest frienda don't live in my everyday world. They are not friends that he has made since moving.

Making friends in middle age is hard. I find it impossible to get a bunch of middle aged women together. It is not because I haven't tried.

My old friends are my closest. They are the only people I have confided in about this. We have been through our major life events together, evolved our friendships over the years. I last saw then two weeks ago, and make a regular effort to see them. I'm not naive wanting a network of people who have genuine affection for me. Inthink you've been very unkind.

@Womblemom I totally get that- I've been there- as it happens I made a friend through meet up and this led to a couple of other friendships too- but yes it's easy for others to judge.

I think you have not succeeded in settling in where you are with friends and a life etc, as you didn't / don't want it to happen. Your heart was / is not in it.

You need to at least have a conversation with your kids about moving. There are other people's wants and needs at stake here and you could do some great damage by moving your kids to where they do not want to be.

I am honestly sorry if I sound harsh but I was a kid forced to move where I did not want to go. Even now I correct the person who keeps saying how great X and Y were, I could not have given a shit less about X and Y. I remind them that they were pursuing their dream, not the rest of us.

@ImCamembertTheBigCheese

Thanks for your perspective about the move. My parents move a long way away when I was in my early 20s and whilst I wasn't forced to go with them, I still resent them for cutting me off from my roots and forcing my to travel miles to visit them. So I can appreciate that perspective. I will consult the kids on this if its on the agenda.

I have tried to settle. Trust me. I have tried. I have a number of hobbies locally, but they don't involve a lot of contact with people my age (although who doesn't love pensioners 🤣🤣) It would be way easier to be settled here and happy than getting divorced and going through this process. I can't live as an island though. Or a B List mate.

@Womblemom

I am not being unkind. Just factual. I did see your posts about you trying.
However - you moved away from where you were born - and went to Uni. Then moved to London. Then met your H. You were not middle aged then.
This is how normally people go through life and acquire friends. At a job, through partners, through kids later on etc. For whatever reason - you didn’t.

You seem to have got stuck in the past and unable to make human connections post your teenage (young adult?) years…
It is unfair to blame it on your H, or all those unfriendly foreigners where you live.
Often - if one partner has an established group of friends in the area - as life goes on - their partners join in, then kids.

But this is beyond the point really. It is telling that you see my comment as unkind, yet are seemingly oblivious as to how totally unfair and selfish you are being by having this obsessive need to uproot your kids’ life. And your H’s. I am assuming his job is in London, and his job gives the family the lifestyle you have - house, private schools, holiday. But that doesn’t seem to matter.
You post is - you, you, you.
So - as i said - i hope it’s your depression rather than your personality.

As to the divorce - if you do push through with it - you can of course force the sale of the house. But - if your H does not agree to the move - which by that stage he’ll probably feel stronger about as divorces tend to being up a lot of strong emotions in people - no court would approve you taking the kids away from the area where they are settled.
By the time you get anywhere - your youngest would br Y6 - and would be old enough to not need a parent at home when they get home. So - your H would be perfectly capable to have your kids on his own.

Your H will not be responsible for maintaining you in any lifestyle - you’ll get your share of equity and assets, then be expected to work and support yourself.

With kids in private school and good equity - no court will mandate you stay in the house until kids grow up. Mesher order is not used in your circumstances.

If you do in fact move away - it’ll damage your relationship with your children. But you don’t seem to be thinking about that.

@Womblemom there is that aspect too- had you thought about you being the one to move away and kids stay where they are with dad? Had this been discussed?

@jsku sorry - when I said it was all on my prevous posts please read through that, I meant that I knew I couldn't force anything, have no intention of going to court, or leaving my kids behind. I have sought legal advice. I know all this. I think we are getting hung up about the move. My main point is about the marriage. I am aware that moving may damage my relationship with my kids. Also, getting divorced will do that too. The big question is, do you stay married for the sake of the kids? Miserable? Or break free.

I think you've hit the nail on the head about socialising together and his friends becoming ny friends. I am really good friends with the wives (basically we are all one interconnected group from Uni etc). We have holidayed regularly in the past when I could get them out! In fact one of his best friends is married to one of my school friends and they live where I hoped to move. However none of these people live in my area. They have all moved to different areas of the country. Some abroad. We have fun on the occasion when we do meet up. So don't berate me for not making friends. I have friends, they have just all moved away. Even my old work collegues have largely all moved out now due to cost of living. I am meeting a few for drinks in a couple of months. They are getting the train into London.

My husband used to work in London. He now works largely from home and covers a wide area in the south. He regularly travels to the West country. They can't live with him full time as he travels for work. They can't be left overnight.

Hopefully this has given some context.

Sorry if this comes across as a bit me, me, me. I guess I was asking for support as I have no one to talk to and was hoping for shared experiences from those who have fallen out of love and want to know what to do for the best, for themselves and their families. Sorry if you misunderstood my post as saying unfriendly foreigners. Many of my local friends are from abroad. I think its valid to point out that we all have unconscious biases based on who we make friends with. I know that if I was abroad living with my family, I would certainly gravitate towards English speaking friends withput realising so I totally understand why people socialise together when they are ex patriate and looking for new friends. I'm just trying to explain what it is like trying to make friends with a group of people you dont know who all have something in common which you don't, when you are saying I'm not trying to make friends. My US friend for example who is one of the closer local friends I have, her best friends here are all from the US ane they all socialise, holiday as families etc. I would struggle to get into the close friend category as she already has close friends previously with them with a lot of shared background. IYSWIM

@Womblemom - do you think if you stay in London your H would want to see the children 'a lot' because if it's going to be an every other weekend situation I can't see why you should feel you have to stay put- but yes I think the children's views at this stage kind of have to come into it- if they were all under say 11 - I would say it wasn't a huge deal .

If he would see them a lot and to me it's clear you don't want to stay married from what you say then I would say if I was you I would sell up, take the equity and rent somewhere really nice locally or even buy outright the 50% in a 50/50 shared ownership in a decent area (you can't earn over £100k to do that )

Then get yourself away to your happy place a couple of times a month and use AirBNB etc -

Maybe look at it again when your eldest leave home and you only have the youngest at home .

I think doing a move away with kids and a divorce on top might be a bit much all at once and might be better to think about this in stages whilst keeping your children stable .

@Crikeyalmighty Thank you, I think you are spot on. And it is cheaper for me to escape every now again rather than doing it the other way (buying in the West and renting in London) and will not disrupt the kids. I costed it up the other day. My husband will want to see them, he is a good father.
Plus it is easier for me to ramp my career up like that, so work in London on the days living in the new place when I have the kids and work hybrid on the days I escape. I will look into shared ownership. Or renting someplace in the interim and saving bigger decisions for a few years down the line.

However, I'm really focused on the marriage right now, we are in a tough spot thrashing out issues. It's quite heavy. I know things will work out either way, its just heavy going getting there. We have a date night booked for tomorrow night. We have both agreed that we want to drink a lot of wine and not talk about Relate. I can't wait 😁

Thank you for your advice.

Gosh this is tricky. Could there be a middle way? You go to the Cotswolds for the weekend twice a month or longer where possible? A way of making you happier without uprooting everyone else? The expense would still be less than divorce financially and emotionally. Then when kids older if you still feel the same relocate entirely?

I know my teens would hate to move especially out of London to somewhere rural then you will bear the brunt of their resentment. But yours may be different more rural pursuits loving types. Mine would hate it. I grew up in the country and as a teen it was pretty rubbish.

@TheaBrandt Thanks, I am coming round to this as an idea, and I am so thankful for the hive mind on this. It is helping me be rational about this without cutting it off completely.

Focusing on the marriage for moment, then comes the financial settlement and custody convos (if we split up). Adding a move to this would be too stressful for us all.

My only concern is the cost but I will be working more as my daughter edges towards secondary school so can start being more independent.
Thanks for your words 😊

Do you realise how utterly boring the Cotswolds would be for your kids compared to London?

They would hate you for it.

I’m not being rude or disrespectful to you.

I really feel for your predicament and I don’t know the answer.

But having done what you are suggesting, is a child’s nightmare unfortunately.

@MyStarBoy Yes - I think you've just read the first post. Had sone great advice on here since so may find a way through this where we can all be happy. Me just spending a couple of weekends a month whilst they are with they're Dad until they're old enough to decide what to do. So yes, not planning on uprooting them involuntarily.

@Womblemom

The more you write - the clearer it seems that so many things are at play in how you feel; and that it pre-dates your marriage.
So - i honestly think that there is no simple solution to your happiness.
Even if you divorced tomorrow and moved with your kids - a year from now you will most likely still be depressed. For other reasons.

I say this as i have been in an unhappy relationship; am divorced; and have had experience with depression.

Thing is - your issues started when you ‘resented’ your parents. They moved away when you were an adult. You stayed wherever you were. But bizarrely - you took that as them uprooting you. This is when you started blaming others are for how you feel.
And also - thinking it’s ok to expect others to shape their lives such as to give you what you want/need.
I presume your parents wanted to move because it made THEM happy.

Maybe, if you do get a counsellor - it’ll be helpful to explore why you didn’t think about their needs and happiness….

Next issue - is whoever your counsellor was when you went through your depression - I think they were not quite professional. There is rarely one specific cause; and one simple solution. And - so the advice - don’t bother with meds - just move (…and potentially blow up your life and 3 kids lives in process) - is shocking in its incompetence.
There is no shame in antidepressants. And if you are predisposed to depression - even ig you change circumstances - mind finds a way to find other reasons to be down.
And no one knows for sure what each individual case of depression is causes by.
So it is irresponsible for a professional to talk someone from trying multiple treatment pathways.

As to you making or not making friends - you said your H has friends from long time ago in the area. These are the fiends i was referring to as a natural starting point when moving to the area. But - at this point it’s not the real issue.

What happens to your marriage - as you say this is what’s on your mind. I do think - in your place i’d try to get depression under some control given that whatever circumstances you live in won’t change quickly. And given that should you decide to actually divorce - it will be really stressful and make it worse.

I’d continue with Relate - and see how that goes.
I’d try to spend as much time doing things you like — and spend most holidays in Cotswolds - to make it less of a dream and more of a reality. See how you all feel about being there in winter and other seasons, not only for a short trip in the summer…

Continue with your discussions of what separation may look like. Realistically you are not going to be moving in the next few years - but you may be better prepared for it for later.

@Womblemom also at a time of flux- I think renting something nice is a good option rather than feeling you have to buy and living somewhere a bit grim at a time when you can mentally be a bit fragile- and in a time when prices are static or downward for a while probably a safer option - nothing has to be forever.

@jsku

Thank you for your kind words. And sharing your experience, I am getting a lot more clarity from these threads. And I am comong around to a lot more realistic visions about what life could look like post separation.

The issue with my parents is the distance. Their first move was to the west of Cornwall, the next to the far North of England... I am pleased they enjoyed their retirement, particularly when they were younger. However it has made a huge difference in their relationship with my children as they have a very long car journey to visit them and now they are old, they can't visit me. They dont really know them very well despite my best efforts. I visit them as often as practical but with visits to their other grandparents (who live an hour away) and family holidays, plus working, it isn't easy. I wish they'd stayed or moved somewhere a similar distance (2 hrs). When I moved to London all those years ago they were close enough for a quick visit at the weekend. This has come up in Relate, my husband empathises with fact that my family isn't very close and I miss this. We live near his family but don't see them often, I wish they'd be more present. We see them as often as we can.

I don't have depression, I had low mood due to the loneliness and stress of three young kids.the doctor prescribed anti depressants ina 10 minute consultation. At the time life was quite tough. I came off anti depressants and took practical steps to improve my happiness. The therapist was good at helping me navigate what that could look like. I feel stronger to deal with bumps in the road.

Good luck with everything and thanks again.

Based on your update about the kids' respective school experiences @Womblemom I'm starting to think a big move could be good for them actually, though the window for decision making is on the small side for your eldest - you'd want him settled by September really. None of them seems to be in a situation you absolutely don't want to disrupt though, which I didn't expect, given the spread of ages.

I think it would be great btw if everyone could stop going on about how boring the Cotswolds are compared to London and how much the kids will hate it, unless OP feels like telling us more about specific locations. I'm not suggesting she should feel she has to, but really, if by the Cotswolds she means Bath or Cheltenham, and by London she means Bromley or Sutton, then it could well be the complete opposite. Bit silly for everyone to be generalising so dramatically without more info.

@DepartureLounge Thank you, yes you are not exactly right but very similar. Where I live is similar to Bromley. Isn't zone 1, the teen friendly things to do (shopping, cinema, fast food, bowling, main line to London etc etc) are all availble in the town I want to move. People think when I say Cotswolds I am moving to a field, in the middle of nowhere. I am getting a bit tired of repeating this 😁. My teens social life revolves around gaming (they are online with friends all over the UK now!). They seldom go into town here and hang out at the shopping centre, but if the mood took them, they could wander down and do exactly that. There are a lot of levels to this that are hard to explain on here but I would 100% consult with everyone on this. These kids have two parents who love them deeply. I am sure my eldest would prefer a better school, a nice detached house in a town , over living in a flat, sharing a room with his brother and being pulled out of the school he's in now because we can't afford the fees. This is genuinely the choice here. Also difficult to explain how long their school holidays are - I mean it feels like they are on holiday more than they are there. Plus their weeks are very busy so most quality teen time (if it exists!) is at the weekend for parents. But, without outing myself I can't argue on all the details 🤣. It's difficult to explain what "living in London" means if you arent aware I don't live in zone one, the kids socialise online and all their activities are mainly at school. Still, not forcing it, or making this thread about the move. Mainly its about the more pressing issue of the marriage.