I don't love my husband anymore

[Womblemom]

After 20 years together, and 15 years married, I told my husband I don't love him any more in early December. I told him I couldn't see us growing old together and I wanted a divorce.

We haven't had a big relationship crisis such as an affair, money problems or arguments.

We have three kids together who are all still at school. For years he has worked hard and I have done the lions share of domestic and childcare stuff, We have no support from family and we don't live close to them.

We live in a suburban area of London. For about 10 years I have longed to live where I grew up in the Cotswolds. I find where we live really dull and have no real friends there, despite living here for 10 years. Five years ago, I became depressed and was put on anti depressants. I received CBT through NHS counselling where we talked through my issues. These were mainly having undiagnosed post natal depression after the birth of my second child and ongoing feelings of helplessness and loneliness, stemming from dissatisfaction in my marriage. My husband worked long hours when the children were small and still kept up his hobbies. He plays golf every weekend for at least one day. He has always been more forceful at getting his way in our relationship.

I tried discussing needing to move back when I was depressed years ago, this ended up in a few arguments. In the last one, my husband said he would never have married me if he knew I'd wanted to move out of London. To be honest, I was shocked that anyone wouldn't want to move out of London so it didn't come up before we married. All of our friends have moved out of London over the years.

My husband has never paid me a compliment when we've been married, never holds my hand or acts affectionally. Sex became another job around the house, I did it because if we stopped, we wouldn't be married anymore.

The kids are older now, two are at secondary school, and I have reached crisis point, I just don't love him. I have started to fall other people and I just need to be with someone else. I long for this, my heart aches to be with someone else.

We have a lot of equity on our home and I can afford to move home without him if we divide our assets. I don't have a firm plan but would like to move back to the Cotswolds and be near real friends, not isolated here.

After telling my husband that I wanted a divorce, he has transformed into the most amazing husband, the friends that he has confided in are shocked and they keep telling me how "sad" they are about our news, and how perfect we are. I know this isn't true in my soul. My husband is adamant that we "try" but I genuinely don't know what that means. How can I force myself to love someone? I feel lost, at sea, and would prefer to move forward with separation as it feels so phoney. We are at Relate and it has been no help whatsoever. In fact it has made us argue more.

Please can anyone comment if you have been in the same situation or fell out of love? I am being made to feel that it is simply a matter of time and things can be magical again simply but talking and doing couple's exercises. Has anyone else found Relate useful? Any shared experiences? Most of my friends are not independent from our relationship and simply want us to stay together for the children. I long to be without him.

Am I making a big mistake or am I being brave in saying how I really feel. Help! :(

He sounds selfish.
Nothing more to say.

Rent somewhere and see how that goes.
See how your emotions are after 5 months breathing space then renew the rental or go back to him if he's interested then.

Area is a tricky one, but I do a hour school run every other week, twice a day , and it's better than living in misery and watching the world go by.

I do the one hour round trip so my child could stay with his friends, and his education was going well (half hour to my ex's)

Far enough away to make myself a new life but close enough to blend my child's existing life into my /our new life and the new area.

Yes there's challenges with traffic but you find a way because you need to,and the school holidays break it up.

Sounds like you've made your mind up, but he's pushing you into relate because, as you said yourself, he's always been the more forceful out of the two of you. He's not taking your feelings into consider even now, he simply wants you back in line.

Some very odd people and advice on here. The Cotswolds is a fab place to live if you have money (which you do) and far better than zone 4-5 London suburbia, especially if you're outdoorsy as you are. It is commuter belt just with access to more countryside. Also there are so many parents with jobs that require them to move often who's kids cope somehow and probably better than kids growing up with unhappy mums.

So I don't think you're daft for wanting to move out of a place where neither you nor your kids are thriving by the sounds of it. I say this as a Londoner of 20 years with a DP who's a 4th generation Londoner. We are outdoorsy people who spend so much time driving to the fells in our free time to hike, we wish we could move there. Unlike you all our family and friends are in London, and DP's work doesn't exist outside London but if they weren't, we'd absolutely consider it. I want to raise outdoorsy kids so that was a key consideration when meeting DP.

I have a good friend who moved to Cheltenham with her primary school children after 15 years in SW London and they're all loving life there including her kids who've adapted and made friends after an initial tricky adjustment. So it's not a ridiculous notion to think life outside London can be great! Of course you have practicalities about your children to consider but if you've raised them right they'll learn resilience and adjustment young. I'd have never wanted my mum to sacrifice her dreams for me. They might be grumpy initially but they could feel like that about any phase of their life at any time.

I divorced my ex 6 years ago because I fell out of love with him, and his selfishness played a part. I too found myself falling for other people and having crushes and didn't want to live like that. It was so lonely, worse than when I was single. We didn't have kids so it wasn't complicated but I moved to my own place the other side of London and am so much happier. Closer to my friends and its a life I chose rather than got stuck with. I eventually met my DP who enjoys the same lifestyle as me and has the same ideas about what/how our lives and kids lives should be - we're getting married in a few months.

Focus on getting the divorce and then with a cool calm head you can figure out where you'd like to live. Don't let him sweet talk you into another decade of misery. In your gut you know what you need to do.

To be honest, I was shocked that anyone wouldn't want to move out of London so it didn't come up before we married

Sorry what. This was absolutely ridiculous of you. Both not discussing it with the man you were going to marry (which is the root of this problem), but also the absurd assumption that nine million Londoners are all secretly hankering for rural life (as opposed to living exactly where they want, often having escaped the tedium of rural life for it). I never understand why people who hate London and city life move here in the first place.

Anyway. As PP have said, your marriage and your location are different problems. The first seems over - you still want to divorce so crack on. But while you can move yourself wherever you want, whether your kids go with you, and what sort of relationship you'll have with them if they don't, is not entirely in your hands. Some kids might not mind but I think they'd be in the minority. I was uprooted from a city to the countryside when I was a kid and spent 10 years resenting my parents for it (and disliked every aspect of rural teenagerhood). If there'd been any option for me to stay in the city I'd have taken it.

@BibbityBobbety
Divorcing when you have children is an entirely different beast to divorcing without children. Taking pre teens or teens to the country from a city is not a straightforward move, no matter how much you fancy it personally.

There are loads of places I'd love to and could live. I've lived all over and moved frequently until I had children, then things change and that's part of the deal.

Why don't you take your kids to the Cotswolds for a weekend and stay in an airbnb and see what they say?

You have no other love interest.
You have children still in school.
Your husband has improved greatly.
You have voiced the need to move on.
Can you try to include your new life goals and also stay parenting with your husband in the family home for the week?

Invest in a holiday house for the future in The Cotswolds.
Travel from there to work on Monday and invite your husband and kids there every few weekends.
You might all get a surprise and a real uplift.
Life together could feel enjoyable.

At worst you both have been compassionate and you own a house in The Cotswolds for when your children have finished school. Personally, I find it selfish to divorce with teenagers. They become so effected. (Unless it's a violent or abusive home.) I would seriously try to work out a satisfactory alternative.

I grew up in an army family so moving was constant. And have friends with dads who had to move for jobs and kids followed. And friends who got sent to boarding school, or friends who had to move because their schools weren't any good or their siblings needed a different school. All survived and still have relationships with their parents and don't harp on the few years at home that had no real impact on the quality of their adult life. Most people move for university anyway and then for jobs.

It's taken as a given if you have to move for a job (and for time memorial it was normally the dad's job only), the kids get no choice. Yet somehow if a parent wants to move for her mental health, it's terrible parenting. Frankly kids grow up and do get over it, teenagers can resent parents even when they're given everything on a platter. So changing your whole life to keep them happy is never realistic, as they don't always know what's best for them. The Cotswolds frankly are no different to London suburbia - it can take 90 mins to get in from zone 4-5 to central anyway! It's hardly rural or isolated.

They can achieve anything they want, I am not moving to rural Scotland or indeed the coast. There is a 90 minute direct high speed train which they can take anytime thy want to work in London.

Sorry OP but this is the type of crap line that some parents hang their arguments on to kid themselves that their kids will like the new area they are forcing them to move to. In reality they will never take the 90 minute train as it takes time to get to the station and time to get where you are going afterwards. You can't pop out to see your mates of an evening after a 2 hours commute with a 2 hour commute back. Always having to leave socials early to get the 'last train'. It is miserable (well was for me).

Your posts have all been about you and very little about considering how your kids will feel to be uprooted. You have friends etc to go back to, they do not.

I know someone like you, they belonged where they grew up and would never be happy living elsewhere. It is a huge pity you did not realise this about yourself years ago.

That's a good idea, but whether the Cotswolds is nice isn't the question.

Whether it's reasonable to divorce and move to there with three children who currently live in London where their father will remain probably is.

The Cotswolds is your safe place from your childhood, it's not theirs. They were born in London, and that will be their equivalent of your Cotswolds to some extent. It's not their dream and will add some fairly massive complications into their lives at a pretty crucial time.

Thanks everyone for your views. , even the tough love. We skipped Relate this week (as last week was so awful) and had a heart to heart last night instead. One comment my husband made really stood out. "I realised in our last Relate session that you have don't have a close friend here". Even after 10 years. If I divorce and stay I will definitely have to keep up my connection to friends and family outside of London, for the sake of my mental health. We did an exercise where we had to list various things about each other. One was "Name 2 of your partner's best friends". For me, he named one who lives in Australia and another who lives in a different area of London but I've neen trying to get a date for cocktails in the diary in London for the past 11 months. I then asked him to try again and he listed two friends from the place I want to move. I named two friends for him, one who lives round the corner and one who lives 20 mins away. I do have friends here, but it's very superficial. Most daily contact is a hello on my dog walk. No real giggles and no invites out. Everything that I did last year with local friends was organised by me. I tried to organise a trip to a local concert which looked really good this summer but no one wanted to go. My distinctly average relationship is all that I have here.

In the spirit of trying, I have joined Meet Up this morning and taken a look at what is on offer to stem the loneliness and isolation. To make the best of being proactive for the sake of the children. All of this involves meeting new people and not hobbies with my husband so I'm not sure how he would feel about me doing that. It would be more likely that I would meet another man than I would forge a deep friendship with someone. I realised that the reason why I have fancied other people over the years isn't just sexual attraction, its also because I'm lonely. When they give me attention and conversation, I'm all ears.

Anyway, on with the day! I have been awake most of the night crying, worrying about making the wrong decision but balancing my unhappiness.

I will take the advice and find a therapist. Hopefully someone who can help me get over this longing to be somewhere I can't be and help me navigate the future.

@JurassicParkaha moving with an army family, relocating as a family because of a parents job bears no comparison to your parents divorcing and one living 100 miles away from the other.

@Womblemom I'm the last one to cheer for staying together for the kids, seriously, I think that divorce is sometimes absolutely the only way and very necessary, but there's a way of doing as a last resort because you have repatedly given 100% to every other avenue possible to be happier, and in a way that has the least impact on the children, and then there's going scorched earth because you're feeling desperate.

The impact of a move on a child is exactly the same no matter the reasons. A divorce will feel emotionally harder but that's the nature of divorce, even if they stayed put. It's just societal conditioning that a mother needs to be all sacrificing for her children and family - when there is absolutely zero research to prove that growing up with a mum on anti depressants who's desperately unhappy is better than not having a thriving social life for a few teenage years.

Kids are not identikit. There's enough teenagers spending all their free time in their rooms playing Fortnite with a teenager in China, or teenagers who hate their current school, or teenagers who want more space in a bigger house - who aren't going to care about a move 90 mins away. There's also teenagers who value a happy mum more than a dad who's always working anyway and teenagers who can't wait to leave wherever they live to go to uni/travel/work just to be independent. If more mums put themselves first, kids would grow up in happier homes. I don't believe in guilting women to stay where they're unhappy using their children. I work with enough teens to know most parents have no idea what they're thinking or feeling and are just projecting their own experiences onto them.

Also, a dad working long hours for their entire life and playing golf on weekends - I mean they've never grown up spending much time with him. As teenagers it's going to matter even less how close they are logistically to him, and it's likely they'll see him more if he has to make the effort.

My view in situations like this is that it is worth the effort to try and improve things. I say this as someone who is divorced after discovering a long term affair. Divorce with kids is hard, really hard and causes its own damage. I would have serious reservations about recommending it to anyone who is unhappy because they are in an "average" marriage - I'm sorry but I would have been really happy to have had my marriage have been average rather than my ex going and fucking a work colleague regularly.

However, if you genuinely have no interest in saving your marriage going along with therapy and other things is just raising false hope that is likely to just make the inevitable divorce even more painful.

@Womblemom just be aware that if you buy a place in the Cotswolds and rent in London you could be clobbered for double council tax on what will be considered a holiday home.

I'm glad that growing up in an army family and moving constantly didn't affect your view. I know some teenagers too, I even have some of my own, and I don't know one of them that would like to leave their mates and their dad to repeatedly commute to see him at weekends. They will miss parties, sports events, you'll be asking them to split their lives, or choose not to see their father. That's not going to be enjoyable for them.

It's not a given even if one did decide that a massive move mid divorce was beneficial for children because they would be too busy playing fortnite and not really notice, if one parent implements a Prohibited Steps Order that would take it off the table. Yes it would be great if father rented a nice air bnb every other weekend and came to them. In reality, that's not going to happen and it will be on the kids to do the traveling.

I'm not suggesting mothers should be all sacrificing, far from it. I am divorced and not for a second have I regretted it, I thank the stars daily that it was an option. But I do know what the pinch points are for the kids. I think divorce is necessary, but I know first hand that it is not a magic bullet and you swap one set of issues for another, albeit slightly more palatable depending on the marriage. It's not all sacrificing to do the compromising so your children don't have to. That's parenting.

I think something was very telling in what you said about being lonely OP- many years ago my H had an emotional affair with a young woman who did some work for us. It didn't come out for many years and when it did I was devastated- but he did say that at that time he felt very lonely- apart from me he had no local friends, isn't sporty, worked from home even back then and to be honest 'latched on' to this woman showing him initially friendship and kindness- asking him to help her family with this and that- it gave him a feeling of friendship and community that he was seriously lacking - I know that myself. It's very easy to get crushes and stuff when anyone is paying you attention if you have a lack of friendships and community - most (not all) people want other people in their life. I think if you actually broaden your life where you are you may find more satisfaction in life in general and ok you might not 'fall back in love' but would enjoy life more. Maybe then reassess when kids have left home - I think it's worth a punt- the other thing is why not say to your H that you want a once a month weekend back in the Cotswolds , either by yourself or with the kids too - just Airbnb it- without the hassle of buying somewhere etc. At this point if he thinks you are heading for divorce, you hold the cards- so use them -

I think you are brave and very honest.

I'm in a similar situation (not the wanting to move areas, but the not being in love with husband bit. We've been together for about 12 years with an 11 yr old child) but I'm so confused about it all and have spent the best part of a year now trying to figure my feelings out and not getting very far. I do care for him but am not sexually attracted to him and if he met someone else and left, I'd be happy with that. I wish I felt as clearly and as strongly as you seem to. I wish I could make a confident decision.

I grew up in London and would move back there in a heartbeat if I could afford it but, honestly, I think this is a ridiculous comment. You really have no idea why people who don't like London or city life might gravitate towards it? The capital city? The one with all the jobs?

For professionals of OP's (and my) generation, it was a well worn trajectory to leave home for university and then not go back, because wherever you went to university and however much you liked either that location or 'home', it was next stop London if you wanted a decent career and opportunities. Pre-internet, there were fewer devolved professional hubs even in other cities, never mind all the long-distance working we've come so quickly to take for granted, particularly in certain fixed-thinking professions.

Then gradually people would couple up and settle down, and once people wanted to buy property or needed more space for a family, they'd leave again, often for their home area, and generally making career compromises as they did. Unless OP's husband is a dyed-in-the-wool Londoner who made it quite clear from the outset that he would never live anywhere else, OP wasn't unreasonable in the least to expect that that would probably be the path their family would take too, just as all their friends have now done.

Thanks again for all your posts. It's difficult to get across all the background on here so I am aware of some of the challenges and pitfalls that have been pointed out.

We have a house with a large amount of equity in it. However this isn't enough to have two 4 bed houses in this area. Even with maintenance etc, my husband and I can't pay the private school fees, pay for the houses etc. So, staying locally means kids coming out of school anyway and them having to compromise massively on on the house, the boys may have to share a room, no garden, crap area. We wouldn't be able to afford to go on holiday or any other treats. That is what me staying in London for the sake of the children, divorced, looks like.

If we sell this house, I can afford a 4 bed house with a garden in a town with direct train access to London where I am considering moving. I can also use part of the equity towards finishing my sons' education. My daughter has a lot of Ofsted outstanding options to apply for secondary. There is a chance that they might get into the amazing grammar schools there for sixth form, there is no chance of that here in this area. Also there are Ofsted outstanding mixed comps, none of which exist for them here.

One child is in year 5 - so not at secondary yet. Whilst she has lovely friends, here kids tend to all go in different directions at secondary school unlike other areas so it is unlikely that they will all go to the same school. Plus kids get new friends at secondary school, it is actually an ideal stage to move. We have a very close relationship, she loves similar things to me.

One son is in year 8 - he hates all things academic, claims he hates his school. To be fair, he would dislike any school. He is a sweet boy, who is funny and charming and he has made friends. However, in private school year 9 is an entry point, most of my eldest's friends moved away to different schools at the end of year 8 so it is likely that many of his friends will change anyway next year if he stays.

My eldest is in year 9. Currently in a difficult stage, after many of his friends left last year he has made friends with a group of quite badly behaved kids. I do worry about him getting into trouble at school. He has a lot of academic potential but his school do not get the best out of him. He has stopped taking part in a lot of the sports that he used to be good at and is not thriving where he is.

Both boys socialise mostly online, they love playing Fortnight with their cousins who don't live nearby. I would love to say that they have an active fulfilling co-curricular life, I have tried so hard, but that is what they like best. My middle child plays in a Sunday League, which is kind of enjoys but has to be made to go a lot of the time.

My kids are all at different stages, no GCSEs started yet. They are familiar with the area I want to move and have enjoyed holidays there, (I am not suggesting for one minute that a holiday is the same as a move btw, just pointing out that its not unfamiliar). They won't be surprised about me wanting to live there.

I am aware of all the legal pitfalls and processes involved. I have no intention of removing my children without my husband's consent or ending up in court. Nobody wins, except the lawyers. The money spent fighting over the kids would be better spent on the kids.

So, a lot of food for thought. I have not simply dreamt up this plan to rush the off to somewhere unfamiliar purely for my own gain. My husband is a great father and I want him to see the kids as much as possible. But if this means us both living somewhere awful and him having to support me financially long after the divorce because of the cost of living here, he is prepared to compromise. After trying to leave him he has finally realised how unhappy I am living here (despite telling him numerous times over the years and being shut down) and realises that we simply cannot go on living here, married or not.

If I stay married, I would have to feel in my heart that it isn't simply

1. to pretend to the kids that their parents love each other and are blissfully happy, then get divorced the minute my daughter goes off to university. I had several friends who this happened to when I was younger and it was just as upsetting as getting divorced as children. Basically the foundation of their family was a lie and the parents were counting the clock for them to move out.
2. staying married because I simply can't afford not to, trapped and feeling depressed. My husband agrees with both these points, he wants to be married to someone who loves him for who he is, in the here and now.

@DepartureLounge Thank you! this is exactly what happened. I moved to London for work, dated a few people, then met OH through mutual friend (in the days before internet dating!). We then got on the merry-go-round of life in your early 30s, gravitating from one life change to another in quick succession. All our friends did move out when they settled down, none of whom had a massive discussion about it previously. They saw he benefits of equity on their London houses, more space, increase in hybrid working, better schools etc and took the plunge. Not sure I have been unreasonable in wanting these things for myself.
Also worth pointing out that about 8 years ago my OH was offered a job in the West in his bank which would have been ideal for move where I wanted to go, which he turned down because 'he' didn't want it. This came a few weeks after a massive debate about moving out of London for schools. I cried for days, you have an opportunity presented to you on a plate that would make me happy but you make me live somewhere where I'm not. It is things like this that have made me fall out of love with him

I do think to an extent you can only see the upsides to your perfect plan.
Two houses is just such a ball ache for kids generally but I understand that this is unavoidable. It's just a double pain if they are far apart. The kids will miss stuff just to see their dad, they will not really be able to join weekend activities and parties and friendships will be disrupted.
I understand you want to leave but however you do it it would be much better for your children for their two parents not to live too far apart.