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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Here is what is wrong with men in 2023 and what we can do about it

434 replies

Hugsandkisses1 · 08/01/2024 17:52

Hi all. Ive come to a realisation lately that has almost brought me close to tears because I have to accept that Im probably going to be single for the rest of my life. Grab a cuppa because this is probably going to be long.

For context, I am a single 33 year old female with my own business, own house, no kids, independent, no baggage, relatively attractive (without blowing my own trumpet) and look young enough than my actual age, have a masters degree, love travelling, open minded, funny (I like to think so), clever, lots of friends, love socialising (out most weekends), and I have some depth to me and actually give a shit about things in life that a lot of people disregard, like animal welfare, homelessness etc. In a nutshell, I’m decent.

Here is the boat I find myself in…
I’ve had 3 proper relationships in my life, all no longer than 12 months, 2 of them verbally abusive and cheaters. Ive got a thick skin now and try not to take any shit and I’m aware of potential red flags that may pop up. Ive been on my own for over 5 years now, with little flings here and there. I’ve tried online dating, but the thing is, I only swipe for the ones conventionally ‘good looking’. By good looking I mean - nice smile and teeth, reasonably attractive, over 6ft (sorry – this is a dealbreaker for me but open minded to many other things), decent job, decent human being. I don’t care if theyre divorced or already have kids, I’m just fundamentally looking for the bare minimum – to fancy them, initially. I’ve had sexless relationships in the past and its not fun for either party – fancying someone is a must.

Whenever I fancy men in real life, I imagine if they were on a dating site and I ask myself if I’d have swiped for them based just on their pictures and the answer is no, I probably wouldn’t, unless of course they are the ‘conventionally good looking’ type that have had the balls to come over to me on a night out (rarely happens these days, and if it does, they turn out to be a narcissist – hence the macho confidence and charisma). So I know dating sites aren’t working for me, as Im much more likely to fancy someone when I can see the ‘fuller picture’ ie their voice, humour, intelligence, wittiness, their mannerisms etc etc. My theory is that most of the men that are conventionally ‘good looking’ and get the most swipes, are probably lacking in all the areas Ive listed above that are attractive traits, and are more than likely players as they have the pick of the bunch (we are ALL swiping for the good looking ones – and they fucking know it!).
You might ask why I haven’t settled down with the men ive met organically then above, the ‘normal’ ones that have traits I like. Here is where my problem really is – they have clocked on that they are a fucking rarity.

Have you been on a night out recently and looked around? There are about 15 attractive women to every ‘good looking’ man. I believe this is because women naturally take more pride in their appearance than men do, and now that we earn our own money, we splash it on treatments and tweakments. It isn’t unusual for a woman to have botox, fillers, hair extensions, nails, the latest clothes, boob job and all the rest – infact, that’s pretty normal for a modern woman in 2023.
Equally, what are men having done? Well, theres the ones who give a shit about their appearance so they might go to the gym 4 times a week (no im not talking about sted heads - yuck), they may splash out in designer gear head to toe (cringe), or the ones with a little bit of class may shop at Reiss instead (better), but you get my jist. They might visit the barber once a week too for a fresh trim. And the rest of them? Nada. No gym, possibly a standard receding haircut or balding (that theyre not bothered about), maybe they haven’t gone shopping for years. But what do both of these types of men both have in common? They both think they are entitled to stunning women.

As ive explained, the ratio of attractive women to attractive men is off the scale. If you haven’t noticed it before, you will now, especially 40 year olds and under. 50 years ago, you were either pretty or you weren’t. You were either an alpha male at 6 ft 2, or you weren’t, and that was ok. You would simply marry up (literally) with someone who was in the same league as you. Now, women are having to lower their bar and accept less than what they deserve, simply because theres so much competition and not enough men to go around. Ask yourself, how many kind, gorgeous, successful, funny, clever, good yet single women do you know? I can bet it’s a lot.

Again, looking back at relationships 50 years ago and more, there was a ‘trade off’. Men needed sex (its in their DNA, they need it), and women needed protecting. Marriage made sense, both sexes were getting a good deal. Pretty much all women were virgins until they were married, and kind of understood the unwritten rule that they needed to ‘keep their man happy’. On the other hand, men kept us happy too. We didn’t need to work and split the finances, we had the luxury of staying at home, cooking, cleaning and raising the kids as regardless of what anyone says, women are more nurturing, emotional, and quite frankly - do a better job of bringing up the children. This worked out fine for men - they went to work, provided for their family (which triggered their hero instinct), and got their dick sucked in return. Masculine and feminine energy intertwined perfectly, sorry feminists, but its true. And the women were happy, until they weren’t.

We then kicked off that we wanted equal rights to men, equal pay, equal jobs, the list goes on, and we got it. We are now a bunch of independent, self sufficient, home owning, driving, single mothers. We’re basically masculine. The men haven’t changed their role though, they aren’t now staying at home, cooking, cleaning and bringing up the kids, they haven’t sacrificed anything but yet they are still reaping the awards. The award – sex.

We somehow have manipulated ourselves into believing that woman need sex like men do (we don’t), and we can sleep around, use men, get our kit off and call it ‘empowering’. It was only empowering when we got the respect we deserved 50 years ago and the mortgage paid. Now, we don’t get called the next day and get pied off for a woman 10 years younger. Men don’t want commitment, period. We nag them, we remind them of their mothers, they have more fun with their friends and we’re a headache to them. The only benefit they have from having a woman in their lives is sex. Period. And we have continued to spoil them with it, with minimal effort from them. We’re lucky if they buy us a plate of food before we do the honour. But we naturally want more, we are wired differently to men, and this is why they USED to meet us in the middle.

But here’s the thing, when we demand more (commitment), the men back off - have you noticed? We get ghosted when we want something in return. Do not let other women fool you into thinking both sexes are getting a good deal by having intercourse, we aren’t. Men inherently need sex, they think about sex thousands of times per day, they even pay for it, and women enjoy it…sometimes, but we don’t inherently need it.
So why on earth are we still having sex freely with men who haven’t earned it, sometimes even with strangers, and blaming being ghosted on countless other reasons? Hes not ready for commitment, hes been hurt before, hes too busy with work, hes avoidantly attached…he’s not. He just doesn’t want to buy the cow when the milk is free.

I personally have took a stance and have stopped having sex with men that haven’t put the bare minimum amount of effort in, to be frank. By bare minimum, I mean he returns my texts, picks me up, takes me out for a few dinners and is nice to me. I’m not asking for a lot. Ive read ‘Why Men Love Bitches’ and ‘The Rules’ – but these books only work with 2 willing participants. It still doesn’t develop into the fairytale romance I had once envisioned on the first date with him, he either doesn’t feel a connection or he’s backed away at the thought of committing.

Some of you will say “not all men are like that”. This is true. Here is my other theory – the ‘other’ men who may be short, insecure, abusive, jobless, homeless, ugly or stupid may be more than willing to settle down with me – you can bet their bottom dollar they are – but I would like someone who brings something to the table, like I do. I won’t fancy a man who is wet behind the ears, who is scared of a hard days work and would be happy to sit at home raising our kids – it’s not masculine and I don’t want it. The ‘other’ men who are none of the things I’ve listed above and are genuinely fantastic men with a lot to offer, raised right and want to commit to a good woman – guess what? THEY ARE ALREADY TAKEN. They were taken in their twenties, and they stayed with that woman, because they are kind, loving, loyal men.

The dating pool for 30, 40, 50 something women now is DIER and we are left with the commitment phobes, abusers, narcissists or tons of baggage that we don’t want. The feminist movement along with plastic surgery and ‘empowering’ women has damaged us. We now all offer the same thing to men and they are spoiled for choice. I was chatting with a male friend of mine not long ago who had been seeing a woman who ticked a lot of boxes but she wanted exclusivity before she agreed to have sex. He didn’t want to be exclusive or commit in any way to any woman, so he let her go. I asked him if he was confident if he would find a good woman like her again in the future, he said yes, and I believe him. We are all competing with each other to be the thinnest, prettiest, most enhanced, smartest, richest to bag the best man, and he’s sitting back and laughing at us all climb over each other in desperation. He’s chilled as a cucumber.

My biological clock is ticking, his isn’t. The men aren’t worried, we are. The men aren’t on mumsnet starting threads about women who won’t have sex with them, because we do. But trust me, if we took this big asset away, they would. Have you noticed how many eligible bachelors you know who just decide when theyre about 45-50 that they are ‘finally ready to settle down’? And they find someone pretty much right away, usually 15 years younger, a box ticker, no kids, no baggage and very fucking fertile. He becomes a dad and gets married and everyone goes “ah at last! He finally found -the One!”. No – she isn’t the one who changed him, she was the one who was there when he realised his looks were fading and he better take what he can while he can. Meanwhile, the women he messed around with back in the day are well into their fifties, still single, possibly childless and debating whether to date someone 20 years older who may cherish them the way no man their age ever did. Do I want to date someone 20 years older than me to feel special? No thanks.

I believe if we all took a stance and stopped giving men the one thing they NEED (sex), until they give us what we NEED (love and commitment), things will change. Stop sexting and sending nudes – they used to pay Babestation for that, now we’re doing it for free! Stop allowing them to waltz in and out of your life every other weekend when he feels like it. Stop popping kids out to undeserving men who wont even put a ring on your finger. A child is the greatest gift a woman can give to a man, its priceless and its basically fucking magical. Yet, people are allowing their wombs to be invaded by men who couldn’t give 2 shits about them when it comes down to it. We then raise fatherless children who grow up with daddy issues and the cycle repeats again. We need to raise the bar and say NO collectively, or else it won’t work. The bimbo on Saturday night who goes home with him after one drink (bare minimum) will undo all our hard work.
If the feminist movement hadn’t have happened, I don’t believe relationships would be as dire as they are right now. Its great that we earn the same as men and have our independence, but look at the price we have paid. They haven’t paid any price, nothing has changed for them, infact it only got EASIER. They still get sex and kids, but no bills or commitment – bingo! We have normalised this behaviour and it’s time to put an end to it.

I can turn down a man for sex tomorrow, but he’s not bothered because he always knows this… theres another desperate girl hoping that if she fucks like a pornstar Friday night she will bag him. She won’t. And he will move on to the next. Women look for love, men only fall in love by accident – by spending quality time with a woman. But they can’t fall in love if we give it up too easy when his foot is already out the door.

As you can tell I've given this a lot of thought and I'm disappointed with where I find myself at my age, and where I think the world is heading. Does anyone else feel the same way?

OP posts:
kkloo · 08/01/2024 22:03

emerald7 · 08/01/2024 21:48

Wow!!

Well said your in my brain, I've had this conversation many times with a male friend.

He says all the time!!

To many women giving away for free so why do men have to put in the work anymore!

Women don't want to be lead they want to be independent do everything for themselves!! "Happy to be lead by a manager though that provides nothing, doesn't care and can sack you tomorrow"

Decent men don't think like that or say those things so no one cares about your friends opinion.

Also from what I've seen the men who say those things always end up sad and alone crying over the women they lost because they treated them like shit 😃

Summerhillsquare · 08/01/2024 22:12

This is incel bullshit.

User135644 · 08/01/2024 22:14

Hugsandkisses1 · 08/01/2024 21:04

I feel that most of you are just solely concentrating on the anti-feminist points. Let me clarify - I’m glad I don’t rely on a man to provide for me. The point I was making is that if men didn’t have a wife/girlfriend, they rarely had sex. They had to show commitment to have sex, and deny it all you like, but most women want commitment and atleast exclusivity. I’m saying that men don’t need to provide that now, as sex is on tap and easily accessible.

if you think an incel wrote this then I’d suggest getting your head felt - it goes against everything incels stand for.

by the way - aware of my typo of ‘dire’ but you will see I spelt it correctly further down my novel later on…but thank you for pointing it out :-)

im standing up for women and saying we deserve more. Im sick of reading and hearing about women being treated like an option when we make men a priority. Is there a Dadsnet where men are complaining about being ghosted after sex? I don’t think so. It’s not in our nature really to have sex with someone we’re not really into, to then just ghost them. But men like to spread their seed - you know it, we all know it.

finally can people stop solely concentrating on my comment about 6 ft aswel please. It’s my preference, but I have dated people shorter. I will take that onboard if I ever do online dating again and maybe lower it as there is a possibility that taller men are kind of exploiting that, knowing they’re more sought after. I wouldn’t absolutely object to dating someone who ticked lots of boxes just because he’s 5 ft 10 - wise up!

You're only interested in the top men and at best are getting sex and then ghosted from them and are not happy about it.

Your standards are unrealistic and it'll keep happening. Your criteria excludes the vast majority of men off the bat.

User135644 · 08/01/2024 22:18

There are plenty more lonely men than women out there.

Most men are either dateless or grateful to be partnered up at all and wouldn't even have the options to cheat, whether they wanted to or not.

The small minority of men who have all the options are the only men the OP is interested in. The over 6 foot criteria excludes the majority of men on its own. Add in physically attractive, good job, a similar age, not married and that will just whittling down and down. Then the OP manages to date one and can't get him to commit and then blames other women for 'putting out'.

TheCadoganArms · 08/01/2024 22:20

Most men are either dateless or grateful to be partnered up at all and wouldn't even have the options to cheat, whether they wanted to or not.

Wow

Alicewinn · 08/01/2024 22:20

Hugsandkisses1 · 08/01/2024 17:52

Hi all. Ive come to a realisation lately that has almost brought me close to tears because I have to accept that Im probably going to be single for the rest of my life. Grab a cuppa because this is probably going to be long.

For context, I am a single 33 year old female with my own business, own house, no kids, independent, no baggage, relatively attractive (without blowing my own trumpet) and look young enough than my actual age, have a masters degree, love travelling, open minded, funny (I like to think so), clever, lots of friends, love socialising (out most weekends), and I have some depth to me and actually give a shit about things in life that a lot of people disregard, like animal welfare, homelessness etc. In a nutshell, I’m decent.

Here is the boat I find myself in…
I’ve had 3 proper relationships in my life, all no longer than 12 months, 2 of them verbally abusive and cheaters. Ive got a thick skin now and try not to take any shit and I’m aware of potential red flags that may pop up. Ive been on my own for over 5 years now, with little flings here and there. I’ve tried online dating, but the thing is, I only swipe for the ones conventionally ‘good looking’. By good looking I mean - nice smile and teeth, reasonably attractive, over 6ft (sorry – this is a dealbreaker for me but open minded to many other things), decent job, decent human being. I don’t care if theyre divorced or already have kids, I’m just fundamentally looking for the bare minimum – to fancy them, initially. I’ve had sexless relationships in the past and its not fun for either party – fancying someone is a must.

Whenever I fancy men in real life, I imagine if they were on a dating site and I ask myself if I’d have swiped for them based just on their pictures and the answer is no, I probably wouldn’t, unless of course they are the ‘conventionally good looking’ type that have had the balls to come over to me on a night out (rarely happens these days, and if it does, they turn out to be a narcissist – hence the macho confidence and charisma). So I know dating sites aren’t working for me, as Im much more likely to fancy someone when I can see the ‘fuller picture’ ie their voice, humour, intelligence, wittiness, their mannerisms etc etc. My theory is that most of the men that are conventionally ‘good looking’ and get the most swipes, are probably lacking in all the areas Ive listed above that are attractive traits, and are more than likely players as they have the pick of the bunch (we are ALL swiping for the good looking ones – and they fucking know it!).
You might ask why I haven’t settled down with the men ive met organically then above, the ‘normal’ ones that have traits I like. Here is where my problem really is – they have clocked on that they are a fucking rarity.

Have you been on a night out recently and looked around? There are about 15 attractive women to every ‘good looking’ man. I believe this is because women naturally take more pride in their appearance than men do, and now that we earn our own money, we splash it on treatments and tweakments. It isn’t unusual for a woman to have botox, fillers, hair extensions, nails, the latest clothes, boob job and all the rest – infact, that’s pretty normal for a modern woman in 2023.
Equally, what are men having done? Well, theres the ones who give a shit about their appearance so they might go to the gym 4 times a week (no im not talking about sted heads - yuck), they may splash out in designer gear head to toe (cringe), or the ones with a little bit of class may shop at Reiss instead (better), but you get my jist. They might visit the barber once a week too for a fresh trim. And the rest of them? Nada. No gym, possibly a standard receding haircut or balding (that theyre not bothered about), maybe they haven’t gone shopping for years. But what do both of these types of men both have in common? They both think they are entitled to stunning women.

As ive explained, the ratio of attractive women to attractive men is off the scale. If you haven’t noticed it before, you will now, especially 40 year olds and under. 50 years ago, you were either pretty or you weren’t. You were either an alpha male at 6 ft 2, or you weren’t, and that was ok. You would simply marry up (literally) with someone who was in the same league as you. Now, women are having to lower their bar and accept less than what they deserve, simply because theres so much competition and not enough men to go around. Ask yourself, how many kind, gorgeous, successful, funny, clever, good yet single women do you know? I can bet it’s a lot.

Again, looking back at relationships 50 years ago and more, there was a ‘trade off’. Men needed sex (its in their DNA, they need it), and women needed protecting. Marriage made sense, both sexes were getting a good deal. Pretty much all women were virgins until they were married, and kind of understood the unwritten rule that they needed to ‘keep their man happy’. On the other hand, men kept us happy too. We didn’t need to work and split the finances, we had the luxury of staying at home, cooking, cleaning and raising the kids as regardless of what anyone says, women are more nurturing, emotional, and quite frankly - do a better job of bringing up the children. This worked out fine for men - they went to work, provided for their family (which triggered their hero instinct), and got their dick sucked in return. Masculine and feminine energy intertwined perfectly, sorry feminists, but its true. And the women were happy, until they weren’t.

We then kicked off that we wanted equal rights to men, equal pay, equal jobs, the list goes on, and we got it. We are now a bunch of independent, self sufficient, home owning, driving, single mothers. We’re basically masculine. The men haven’t changed their role though, they aren’t now staying at home, cooking, cleaning and bringing up the kids, they haven’t sacrificed anything but yet they are still reaping the awards. The award – sex.

We somehow have manipulated ourselves into believing that woman need sex like men do (we don’t), and we can sleep around, use men, get our kit off and call it ‘empowering’. It was only empowering when we got the respect we deserved 50 years ago and the mortgage paid. Now, we don’t get called the next day and get pied off for a woman 10 years younger. Men don’t want commitment, period. We nag them, we remind them of their mothers, they have more fun with their friends and we’re a headache to them. The only benefit they have from having a woman in their lives is sex. Period. And we have continued to spoil them with it, with minimal effort from them. We’re lucky if they buy us a plate of food before we do the honour. But we naturally want more, we are wired differently to men, and this is why they USED to meet us in the middle.

But here’s the thing, when we demand more (commitment), the men back off - have you noticed? We get ghosted when we want something in return. Do not let other women fool you into thinking both sexes are getting a good deal by having intercourse, we aren’t. Men inherently need sex, they think about sex thousands of times per day, they even pay for it, and women enjoy it…sometimes, but we don’t inherently need it.
So why on earth are we still having sex freely with men who haven’t earned it, sometimes even with strangers, and blaming being ghosted on countless other reasons? Hes not ready for commitment, hes been hurt before, hes too busy with work, hes avoidantly attached…he’s not. He just doesn’t want to buy the cow when the milk is free.

I personally have took a stance and have stopped having sex with men that haven’t put the bare minimum amount of effort in, to be frank. By bare minimum, I mean he returns my texts, picks me up, takes me out for a few dinners and is nice to me. I’m not asking for a lot. Ive read ‘Why Men Love Bitches’ and ‘The Rules’ – but these books only work with 2 willing participants. It still doesn’t develop into the fairytale romance I had once envisioned on the first date with him, he either doesn’t feel a connection or he’s backed away at the thought of committing.

Some of you will say “not all men are like that”. This is true. Here is my other theory – the ‘other’ men who may be short, insecure, abusive, jobless, homeless, ugly or stupid may be more than willing to settle down with me – you can bet their bottom dollar they are – but I would like someone who brings something to the table, like I do. I won’t fancy a man who is wet behind the ears, who is scared of a hard days work and would be happy to sit at home raising our kids – it’s not masculine and I don’t want it. The ‘other’ men who are none of the things I’ve listed above and are genuinely fantastic men with a lot to offer, raised right and want to commit to a good woman – guess what? THEY ARE ALREADY TAKEN. They were taken in their twenties, and they stayed with that woman, because they are kind, loving, loyal men.

The dating pool for 30, 40, 50 something women now is DIER and we are left with the commitment phobes, abusers, narcissists or tons of baggage that we don’t want. The feminist movement along with plastic surgery and ‘empowering’ women has damaged us. We now all offer the same thing to men and they are spoiled for choice. I was chatting with a male friend of mine not long ago who had been seeing a woman who ticked a lot of boxes but she wanted exclusivity before she agreed to have sex. He didn’t want to be exclusive or commit in any way to any woman, so he let her go. I asked him if he was confident if he would find a good woman like her again in the future, he said yes, and I believe him. We are all competing with each other to be the thinnest, prettiest, most enhanced, smartest, richest to bag the best man, and he’s sitting back and laughing at us all climb over each other in desperation. He’s chilled as a cucumber.

My biological clock is ticking, his isn’t. The men aren’t worried, we are. The men aren’t on mumsnet starting threads about women who won’t have sex with them, because we do. But trust me, if we took this big asset away, they would. Have you noticed how many eligible bachelors you know who just decide when theyre about 45-50 that they are ‘finally ready to settle down’? And they find someone pretty much right away, usually 15 years younger, a box ticker, no kids, no baggage and very fucking fertile. He becomes a dad and gets married and everyone goes “ah at last! He finally found -the One!”. No – she isn’t the one who changed him, she was the one who was there when he realised his looks were fading and he better take what he can while he can. Meanwhile, the women he messed around with back in the day are well into their fifties, still single, possibly childless and debating whether to date someone 20 years older who may cherish them the way no man their age ever did. Do I want to date someone 20 years older than me to feel special? No thanks.

I believe if we all took a stance and stopped giving men the one thing they NEED (sex), until they give us what we NEED (love and commitment), things will change. Stop sexting and sending nudes – they used to pay Babestation for that, now we’re doing it for free! Stop allowing them to waltz in and out of your life every other weekend when he feels like it. Stop popping kids out to undeserving men who wont even put a ring on your finger. A child is the greatest gift a woman can give to a man, its priceless and its basically fucking magical. Yet, people are allowing their wombs to be invaded by men who couldn’t give 2 shits about them when it comes down to it. We then raise fatherless children who grow up with daddy issues and the cycle repeats again. We need to raise the bar and say NO collectively, or else it won’t work. The bimbo on Saturday night who goes home with him after one drink (bare minimum) will undo all our hard work.
If the feminist movement hadn’t have happened, I don’t believe relationships would be as dire as they are right now. Its great that we earn the same as men and have our independence, but look at the price we have paid. They haven’t paid any price, nothing has changed for them, infact it only got EASIER. They still get sex and kids, but no bills or commitment – bingo! We have normalised this behaviour and it’s time to put an end to it.

I can turn down a man for sex tomorrow, but he’s not bothered because he always knows this… theres another desperate girl hoping that if she fucks like a pornstar Friday night she will bag him. She won’t. And he will move on to the next. Women look for love, men only fall in love by accident – by spending quality time with a woman. But they can’t fall in love if we give it up too easy when his foot is already out the door.

As you can tell I've given this a lot of thought and I'm disappointed with where I find myself at my age, and where I think the world is heading. Does anyone else feel the same way?

I think what you’re saying makes sense and has truth in it but I’m more interested in where it’s coming from. Be careful it’s not a sophisticated defence mechanism designed to keep you safe from hurt, as you could miss out from making emotional connections as you’re finding excellent reasons to avoid them. What you’re saying reminds me of a friend of mine. She’s single aged 55 now & this was her mantra all through our 20’s & 30’s…he’s not tall enough, he’s not interesting enough etc. it makes me a bit sad honestly as she is so cool & interesting.

Hugsandkisses1 · 08/01/2024 22:21

Those saying I’m only interested in the top 1% of alpha men are wrong. Last guy I dated I didn’t even fancy at first, it was only after I got to know him, he grew on me. He had nothing to offer me, but we got on like a house on fire and the sex was great. But hey presto - he wasn’t looking for commitment. He is indeed on tinder though…

OP posts:
FlowersInThePouringRain · 08/01/2024 22:24

"Hugsandkisses1" tho!!

Good, strong female sounding username 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻

User135644 · 08/01/2024 22:24

Hugsandkisses1 · 08/01/2024 22:21

Those saying I’m only interested in the top 1% of alpha men are wrong. Last guy I dated I didn’t even fancy at first, it was only after I got to know him, he grew on me. He had nothing to offer me, but we got on like a house on fire and the sex was great. But hey presto - he wasn’t looking for commitment. He is indeed on tinder though…

More men than not do want a partner.

If you're just getting flakes or players then you're either picking wrong or your standards are too high. If you're screening is more based on superficial factors then it's not helping.

EmmaEmerald · 08/01/2024 22:26

OP "The point I was making is that if men didn’t have a wife/girlfriend, they rarely had sex."

where on earth did you get that idea?! The mind boggles.

okay, I no longer think this is a 33 year old woman. About ten years ago, I had a friend who moaned that women were expected to do it all, but that friendship didn't last long...all she did was moan about wanting a man. I thought OP might be that type, but no, probably a teen or incel or both.

kkloo · 08/01/2024 22:29

Hugsandkisses1 · 08/01/2024 22:21

Those saying I’m only interested in the top 1% of alpha men are wrong. Last guy I dated I didn’t even fancy at first, it was only after I got to know him, he grew on me. He had nothing to offer me, but we got on like a house on fire and the sex was great. But hey presto - he wasn’t looking for commitment. He is indeed on tinder though…

I never had an issue with men not wanting to commit. If anything it was the opposite and they were very keen to commit and very pushy but then I attract stalker types!

And men commit every day, there's men out there every single day asking women to move in with them, marry them etc.

Of course there are some men who don't want to, but plenty of them do.

SheFliesLikeABirdInTheSky · 08/01/2024 22:30

Hugsandkisses1 · 08/01/2024 22:21

Those saying I’m only interested in the top 1% of alpha men are wrong. Last guy I dated I didn’t even fancy at first, it was only after I got to know him, he grew on me. He had nothing to offer me, but we got on like a house on fire and the sex was great. But hey presto - he wasn’t looking for commitment. He is indeed on tinder though…

I wonder why he wasn't looking for commitment???😕

Hugsandkisses1 · 08/01/2024 22:34

You can insinuate that I’m hard work all you want, you haven’t dated me. Im at the end of my tether today hence the long rant, but generally im a fun person to be around, so im told. So no, it’s not because im hard work, I haven’t sat down over coffee on a first date and discussed these views, I don’t plan to either.

OP posts:
MsRosley · 08/01/2024 22:36

You sound very cynical and reductive about relationships and attraction

As others said, this idyll of housewifely bliss is all in your head. Why do you think so many wives were on Valium back in the day? Cos they were bloody miserable being stuck at home.

Pinkbonbon · 08/01/2024 22:44

I was more on board before the 'over 6 ft' bullshit. You do know that only something like 5% of men are over 6 foot right?

Maybe fair enough if you're a tall woman but otherwise 🙄

And I'm all for being picky btw. I totally agree women are generally a better catch these days. Men don't tend to maintain themselves well.

Here's the thing though, movies have spoilled us. We all think 7s are 4s now because we're used to seeing beautiful people on TV. And we all think we are worthy of leading men because of our winning personalities. Unfortunately, the world isn't that generous.

Now I don't think anyone should settle for people they don't fancy but when women start throwing things like a mams height about I just think the same thing about them as I do men who want 'skinny'.

I agree we should take personal responsibility and not date men we donh fancy. I also agree it's largely nonsense that sex like men is something we need. But some women do tbf. I don't judge anyone for flings because men will commit or not commit irregardless in my opinion. I don't believe it's about the abundance of sex. Its about the abundance of choice and their inability to just pick one.

Feminism is not the problem. Taking too much shit from crappy men is. Feminism as never just about equal rights, it was about empowering women. Part of that should be not settling for shitty men. It's not feminisms fault that women have evolved yet many men remain stuck in the stone age. Nor would at true feminist agree to work and raise a family with a partner who isn't their equal and doesn't contribute their fair share.

Realistically the best thing we can do is not.have.children. Treat relationships as company only, avoid ties where possible.
That is the smart course of action. Take a leaf out of mens books and do not get tied down.

If you want to date a cutie, travel somewhere foreign and have a fling with a cabana boy. Men do this sort of thing and no one bats an eye. Equality is great but you need to participate. Men doing just sit and let women take the piss. They don't find themselves in a position where they need to 'nag'. They know when to call it a day and so should we.

Xmastime2023 · 08/01/2024 22:46

Hugsandkisses1 · 08/01/2024 22:21

Those saying I’m only interested in the top 1% of alpha men are wrong. Last guy I dated I didn’t even fancy at first, it was only after I got to know him, he grew on me. He had nothing to offer me, but we got on like a house on fire and the sex was great. But hey presto - he wasn’t looking for commitment. He is indeed on tinder though…

Perhaps you had nothing to offer him?

SheFliesLikeABirdInTheSky · 08/01/2024 22:48

Xmastime2023 · 08/01/2024 22:46

Perhaps you had nothing to offer him?

This. ^ OP probably came across as needy and intense too.

EmmaEmerald · 08/01/2024 22:57

Hugsandkisses1 · 08/01/2024 22:34

You can insinuate that I’m hard work all you want, you haven’t dated me. Im at the end of my tether today hence the long rant, but generally im a fun person to be around, so im told. So no, it’s not because im hard work, I haven’t sat down over coffee on a first date and discussed these views, I don’t plan to either.

Having a rant is one thing

But many posters have pointed out a lot of weird stuff in your posts....stuff that makes you seem not very bright, frankly. Even if history is not your thing!

MonsteraMama · 08/01/2024 23:00

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alwaysmovingforwards · 08/01/2024 23:04

I think when people hear "sorry I'm not looking for commitment or anything serious" they often miss the silent 'with you'.

Mambo1986 · 08/01/2024 23:08

its true what you have observed but unfortunately not really much can be done. Dating apps and social media amplify this problem significantly. Birth rate lower than it has ever been. Feminism really is a double edged sword the more power women get on their autonomy the less suitable partners there are and then more competition which of course the high value men love and are not incentivised to settle down because they can get sex for free. I think people need to actually understand men don’t have any drive whatsoever for marriage unless they are lower earner and historically accesss to sex has been what convinced them. Nowadays because feminism freed up access to sex in the name of female autonomy men are less inclined to marry or even commit at all.

SpicyMoth · 08/01/2024 23:09

Sorry but imo, this is on your mindset OP - Humility and humbleness seems to be somewhat lacking to be quite honest, I don't mean that in a nasty way but some of what you've written really does come off as not the type of person I'd want to be around personally.
No one "deserves" anything, that's a very "incel" way of thinking imo.

I had a friend who thought exactly as you did, but when you looked at the type of men she'd go for? It was always someone who looked like they could be in a 2000's boy band.
It was that stereotypical "fuckboy" aesthetic.
And the men spoke & texted like it too, They act exactly how they look.
She's still single afaik.

I found my DH on tinder, we've been together 5 years, moved to the other end of the country together, got a dog, started ttc, he proposed just after we moved this year, and I'm now pregnant with our 1st, I'm turning 28 this year.

I'm not a catch imo, I have my own MH issues which mean I cannot work "normally", I cry like a motherfucker, I didn't go to uni, I have had 0 surgeries or tweakments or botox, I don't wear extensions or get my nails done, I rarely wear makeup, I'm chubby/overweight, and I'm short as shit.
Do I have my good qualities? Sure, I make him laugh so I guess I must be funny at least sometimes - I think I'm okay looking - Not the best but not the worst either, I cook, I take care of him, I love him.

So what did I do to get this man?

I stated openly in my profile that I was not down for hook-ups and I was looking only for a serious "forever" relationship.
I also spoke about my interests/hobbies.
I only went on dates with guys who had actually bothered to READ my profile.
And lastly, I asked them to phone me. There's no point in bothering meeting up for a date if you can't even have chemistry over the phone.

How did I know who read the profile and who hadn't?
Well, if they tried to "hook up" that was an obvious sign they hadn't.
The second tell tale sign was my hobby/job at the time.
Slip things into your profile that will give them an "entry point" to talk to you, to show you if they're interested in your interests.

My DH not only read my profile, but was interested in me enough to look me up on facebook to see what type of art I did so he could talk to me about it - he was really impressed.
I found this insanely touching and sweet, literally NO other guy in my LIFE had done this, let alone on tinder.
You have to leave breadcrumbs for the decent men to follow, they let you determine which guys are genuinely interested in you as a person vs you as a sex toy.
(Also FWIW, when I swiped on my DH I 100% thought I was batting out of my league and was absolutely shocked when we matched. He also told me he had thought the same about me!)

LarkLane · 08/01/2024 23:14

@SpicyMoth. I'm sure that you are very much a catch. Don't question yourself.
I hope that you and your future DH are very happy together. Flowers

SheFliesLikeABirdInTheSky · 08/01/2024 23:18

@MonsteraMama Shock

😆

tiagra · 08/01/2024 23:30

Only 15% of men are over 6ft so you're cutting your chances down to a fraction.
Those 15% are very much in demand and have the pick of the field.

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