How am I going to get through this :( (long post sorry!)

[MyHeadIsSpinning]

I've been with DH for over 10yrs, married for 1 and have a new baby. LO was born prem and we have been going through hell but she is home now and doing well.

DH has always been indecisive and before each major milestone, getting engaged, a house, married etc he has had a panic and discussed splitting up as he doesn't think he loves me enough to get engaged, buy a house, get married etc.

However once we have talked things through and he has had his stress he always decides that he does love me and wants to be with me.

Surprisingly getting pregnant was one thing that he didn't stress about and was really happy that we were expecting. When I delilved LO early and it was touch and go for me and LO - apparently cos I was out of it but have been told by various people - DH was a bit of a mess which was understandable, ie couldn't speak for crying. However he won't talk about this and although has been supportive during the weeks LO was in hospital on SCBU I feel he could have been there for me more than he was.

Over the weekend things have come to a head. We've been having a few niggly arguements and he has said over the past few weeks that he isn't sure if he loves me enough (again) and has been thinking about us splitting up. Yesterday I made a real effort - did my hair and make up etc and tried hard to make an effort - we had agreed to do this the night before. However DH didn't notice the effort I had made and was sullen all day only speaking when I spoke to him etc. When I cracked and said that his behaviour was upsetting me and I was upset that he hadn't commented that I looked nice - he said that he hadn't noticed that I'd made an effort and didn't think I looked as though I had particularyly

We had a 'discussion' during which he told me that;

He feels it would have been easier if I had died when havign LO as this would have ade things easier for him ie wouldn't have to decided to stay with me or not - this really hurt and he knows how bad it sounded.

He doesn't feel that he loves me enough and wishes that he's 'had the balls to leave me before marrying an having a baby'

When I asked why he married me he said he thought it would be a solution to how he was feeling about being not sure about the relationship and everyone else seemed to think it was a good idea. He was NOT pressurised into marrying me or indeed even staying with me.

The arguement went on until I said that I wasn't prepared to share our baby and him be a weekend dad. That isn't why I brought her into the workd to be passed about between two homes etc. I told him that it's all or nothing he either has us both or looses us both cos I'm not beign a part time mum and our daughter needs a full time dad.

He went to walk out of the room and I asked him how he felt right then - he replied like he wants to die

I left him to cool off and then went upstairs to see him. He was sat on the bed crying. He Said that he loves our daughter and doesn't want to be a part time dad but isn't sure that he loves me enough etc. He broke down and cried so hard he was howling and holding on to me - this is not like him he cries but only a little. This was a major breakdown kind of cry.

We have decided to see how things go for a couple of months and both make a real effort to make our marriage work He has said that he would rather fall back in love with me and make it work but at the moment isn't sure that this is possible.

I just feel so empty and don't know what to think. Part of me feels so sorry for him cos I love him and he is hurting and I want to make things better but can't) I have suggested that maybe he is depressed after the birth and the general situation and he said that he doesn't think so cos he just feels the same way as he has previously.

On the other hand I'm so angry with him for what he has said and that he is taking away this precious time with my new baby cos I can't enjoy her as much as I would cos I'm worried about the future and being on my own if he does leave us.

He finds talking difficult so I'm off to buy a couple of notepads for us both to write our feeligns in about the relationship and anything else over the coming months - I feel for me it will be cathartic and help when I really want to talk and he doesn't, for him I hope that writing down his feeligns and fears will help put them into perspective and help him to work through how he feels whatever the outcome may be.

I just feel sooo sad and can't stop thinking about what he has said and also part of me thinks that maybe we shoudl just call it a day and I can move on and find someone who does love me although not sure this would work as the person I want to love me doesn't Also I really don't want to be a single parent.

Sooo he finally went to counselling this week - on his own. Said that he felt it hadn't really helped him and he only told the counsellor what he had already told me.

I went to see the counsellor again yesterday and she said that firstly don't beat myself up about feeling frustrated with him as he is extreemly difficult and she found it very hard to get anything out of him.

She said that I have to think more about myself and stop obsessing about DH and how he feels and how I might be able to change him. She said I need to be assertive and stop thinking about him. Think about what I need and want from this relationship. She also said that his callous behaviour towards me and his flippant remarks about deeply upsetting and major issues (ie not sure if he loves me or wants to be married etc) is cruel and amount to emotional abuse

She said that he has a lot of anger in him towards his parents and that he is transferring this on to me but he doesn't realise this and is completely unaware of his anger.

Not sure if he is going to go back again he can't decide (suprise surprise!) and she has told me not to mention it to him. If he wants to see her he knows what he needs to do.

She also said that if he isn't already having an affair that he is seriously considering the idea - which is kind of what I thought. She said that the only thing I can do is to be assertive and say what i need and what I want.

I tried this last night. Told him that the counsellor had emphasised that I need to think what I want and need and to concentrate on my and the LO - I was struggling a little to say what I wanted to as I was determined not to say the 'wrong thing' or get upset. I repeated myself a couple of times and he laughed. I asked him not to and he said I'm not laughing at you you just repeated yourself a few times. I bit my tongue and carried on and told him that I need someone that I can trust, who is there for me and who loves me for who I am. I said that I understand that he sees things different to me and I can't change him that has to come from him but I can't carry on as we are. Then left it at that as suggested by the counsellor.

So far not seemed to make any difference and he hasn't changed at all but suppose that's expecting too much too soon really!. She said that if I remain strong and positive then I can change the situation - just noone knows which way it will go - I just have to keep repeating what I want and hopefully sooner rather than later he will make a decision either to change or to go then I can stop being in Limbo.

It's just SOOOO hard keeping myself together when all I want to do is curl up and cry my heart out.

MHIS, you poor thing. This is really hard for you.

I agree with what the counsellor has said and what she has advised you to do. It won't come naturally to you but you have made a start and I think it is really worthwhile persevering with it - being assertive about what you want and leaving the rest to him.

It is all you can do. You will feel better about yourself and, if you ignore his abuse and just reiterate yourself, as you are doing, he won't be able to dump his anger on you any more by making you upset and getting you to cry. He will have to finally take a look at what he is doing in this situation.

I'm glad for you that you have gone to counselling and are getting support from the counsellor to know that it is not your fault or your responsibility that he behaves like this.

You are very attached to him and will not stop craving his affection very easily. It's not the same but try to get some support from friends and family, it might help you with your resolve.

MHIS, this sounds like my relationship with xh. He would have one of these 'I'm not happy' turns about every two years. I know now that it was always accompanied by an affair aswell. It is entirely possible that your husband loves you. XH & I were the best of friends, we got along really well (when he wasn't torturing me with his behaviour). But the truth was that he didn't see himself as a dad and a husband. He loved me, there was no reason he shouldn't, as there is no reason your husband shouldn't love you. But when something came along that he thought was worth leaving home for, he went. He was only with me till he found more exactly what he was looking for in a woman. Deep down in my heart, I always knew the day would come when he left, but we played this stupid game for 12 years. The 'vanity project' analogy from SkyAtNight just about sums it all up.

im very sorry he is putting you through this limbo keep strong

Thanks for your comments they really do help.

However I kind of lost my resolve last night a little. LO was up every hour or two through the nighht and I have hardly slept. About 2am she fed then was sick everywhere -me, her, the bed and I got upset. DH woke up and half heartedly shusshed her to get her to calm down cos she was crying but didn't offer me any support. I was soo tired and stressed I said that I needed more support and he wasn't giving it. He said okay give her here then. I meant support as in giving me a cuddle or saying I was doing a great job and not to stress etc He didn't get this.

I asked him to go and sleep in the spare room so that I could put LO in bed with me and have room for us both. He agreed - immediately - a little too readily for my liking

Soo this morning he changes her nappy before going to work and as he is going gives her and me a kiss. He hasn't been wearing his weddign ring for a coupl eof weeks and I have mentioned that this is cruel as he leaves it on his bedside torturing me.

I did mention this in our conversation the other night when I told him what I need. I said that I needed my husband to wear his weedding ring as it's a very hurtful and symbolic gesture not to.

This morning I calmly asked what was going on with him not wearing it. He said why? he doesn't want to at the moment. I reiterated that this was cruel and that I was unhappy with this. He said fine and put it on and went off to work.

Arrghhhh why can't I just keep my mouth shut I feel as thought I've undone all my efforts since Wed now

With regards to the affair/possibility that he may be thinking of had some reassurance that hopefully nothing going on yet as he openly showed me his mobile bill yesterday and there were no suspect calls or texts. Made me feel a little better.

MHIS I am so sorry to hear that you are in this situation. However, this man is systematically stripping you of your self esteem, worth and confidence with his warped behaviour. Please, please take control, be brave and kick him into touch. Insist on the months separation, he could check into a B&B if necessary. His behaviour is vile and you are not responsible for it...he is. Don't make anymore excuses for him. You deserve to be treated so much better than this.

You can't demand that he loves and comforts you. I'm sorry to sound so harsh, and I do truly, truly know what this feels like. But he doesn't feel like that, and you can't make him. So treat him as a friend for now and nothing more. If you are going to get through this, you must change your attitude because, firstly, it is clear that your current way of dealing with it is not working and, secondly, you are going to drive yourself round the bend trying to control a situation you have no control over.
Get to grips with that one thought. You have no control over his feelings . All you can control is your reaction to those feelings (i.e. acceptance) and whether or not you want to face him every day, knowing what his feelings are.

I feel bad talking to you like that, MHIS. I just wish none of it was necessary, and he was treating you the way you deserved.

Don't worry about it MHIS. What's done is done and I don't think what happened last night is a problem anyway. You were tired and stressed and he didn't behave badly as such, possibly better than some other men. The early days of parenthood are very stressful. You have done what the counsellor said to do and told him what you want. He has responded a little bit but not exactly how you would want him to. It all means very little in the context of your long relationship of ups and downs.

You could tell him that you want more physical affection and emotional support instead of just help with the baby but I think you have done this already and, given everything you have said, I don't think he will respond at this time. It is human to crave affection but you do have to work on being less needy as he can't handle it and it makes you seem less attractive to him.

Who knows if this situation between you and him is ever going to get better instead of just fluctuating between bad and bearable. Either way, you have a long frustrating road ahead of you. Nothing will change overnight, if at all. You are between a rock and a hard place. You could end the misery by asking him to leave but you are determined to see it through. So, every time your resolve weakens or you don't handle it quite right, you have to pick yourself up and start again.

I think it is good that you were assertive about the ring. There is no problem in telling him what you want and sticking up for yourself. The thing is not to then keep repeating yourself and end up in an argument and in tears. You can't make him do anything. Just say what you want/feel and then go quiet, walk away, stay calm. Cry in the bathroom if you have to, or thump a pillow (although you don't seem the angry type).

The thing about possible affairs and the phone bill - I think this is by the by. He can hide an affair from you if he wants to. He could have another phone. I don't think it is the issue here. If he wants to go off with someone else, he will. The more you try to find out whether he is having an affair, the more suspicious you are, the more you question him, the more needy you will seem. If I were you, I would just ignore it. Then he doesn't have to rebel against you as the controlling 'parent' and have his silly secrets. I know it is not ideal but the more freedom you give him, the more you ignore his attempts to wind you up, the more likely he is to feel warm towards you. Try to see him as a lodger, not your husband.

Chin up. You are doing the best you can, given the circumstances. I wouldn't expect much from him.

to not wear his wedding ring and to leave it in sight, is psychologically cruel. You poor thing.

thanks everyone - you are all saying what I already know

I so want to be strong but when I feel like I do and add to that the way he is acting, having a small baby, being sleep deprived and trying to change the way I act and hide the way I really feel it's bloody hard.

In some ways I really do want to just throw the towel in and tell him to go but this is me making decisions for him again and he needs to start making them himself. Just so difficult waiting fo him to do so especially when I have no idea how long this process will take.

I like the idea of treating him like a lodger and I think I will try to take this stance - however it is going to be difficult because he is after all (and despite how he is treating me) my husband and father of my child... BUT I can do it! Will just have to give LO more cuddles - if that's possible to make up for his lack of affection.

[takes a deep breath, pulls herself together and resolves to be stronger]

Do you think there is any chance that you are depressed, MHIS? Did the counsellor say anything about it?

I don't mean that you are imagining things or over-reacting. I think we have established that your husband is the one with the real problem and the counsellor seems to be of the same opinion. I only mention depression because you have been through a very stressful experience with your baby which has been made worse by your husband's behaviour. It would not be uncommon for a woman in your situation to get PND, sooner or later.

The reason I think this is important is that you have had a lot to adjust to and you are swinging in your moods between being capable and then really needy. If you saw a GP and were described anti-depressants, it might help you to keep your emotions more on an even keel and this in turn would help you with your husband? I don't know. It's just a thought.

skyat night - I think I may be a little - the counsellor mentioned it very briefly in the first session. I am exclusively breastfeeding so not sure what if any antidepressants I could take.

Also I know that they can help but I am a little reluctant to have them.

I feel as tho I'm constantly putting a brave/false face on when I am with others and the person who should be there for me through this isn't so I'm having to put a front onalmost constnatly and it's exhausting

thanks for your kind words and support

I understand your concern about breastfeeding but there are antidepressants that you can take while bf. The doctor would know which ones.

I went through a lot of difficult stuff both while I was pregnant and after dd was born. I struggled on for ages, bursting into tears with the health visitor, and did not want to take antidepressants. I always felt that if I just tried a bit harder then I would be able to move forward. I was and still am suspicious about taking tablets for emotional problems. But, after 2.5 years, I admitted defeat, because I was so exhausted physically and mentally, and finally took them. I wouldn't say they are great, you have to get over the side effects at first, but I am finding life easier with them. I am calmer, less anxious, more decisive and more productive. I don't fall to pieces when something goes wrong. They are not a real solution but I think they can help you to move forward through a difficult time to the point where you can get better.

What concerns me is what you say about putting on a front. That really sounds like how I was. Stiff upper lip, etc.. The strain is going to wear you out and affect your health. It would be better if you would tell your friends and family what is happening. Noone will think any the less of you for it. Everyone knows that it can be very difficult with a small baby, even with a supportive husband. You need some support. The counsellor is giving you some of this but you need more. It is so difficult to ask for help when you are down - easier to carry on just 'managing'. I could manage but it did affect my health and I am still trying to recover. A lot of wasted time.

Anyway, I don't know whether it would help you or not but it is worth considering. You need to keep your strength up for you and your child.

thanks Sky - I think I will discuss with my counsellor and maybe see my GP. I don't think I am really depressed rather just reacting to the situation. ie if DH was supportive really don't think I would be feeling this way.

if he is serois about wanting to try and save this relationship then he certainly shouldnt be taking his wedding ring off. you have every right to feel disrespected, check and see if he has it on when he gets home because the odds are he took it righ off when he left the house.He seems to think that the ball is in his court...stop pussy footing around him...he is a grown man acting like a teenage boy, he doesnt seem to want the responsibility of fatherhood and marriage.....well he should have thought about that first. do not let him dick around with your emotions anymore, think about yourself and your daughter, keep your dignity...dont beg x

Fawke - I agree and conversely he seems to be in some ways being more positive and nicer towards me but at the same time not wearing his ring etc.

I'm pulling myself together and feeling better than I did this morning.

One thing I can't decide on is what to do re his washing etc. I always do all washing together do you think I should leave his - is this being assertive or just antagonistic? Should I make tea for us both or just me? Sounds a bit silly to ask but not sure if I am being a doormat by making his tea and doing his washing etc - he is still washing my car for me and doing all the 'man' jobs around the house....or am I being silly and should just carry on as 'normal' as possible with day to day stuff and just try to appear less needy etc?

MHIS - have you name changed? You sound very familiar. I don't really have much advice but am really feeling for you - I have also been through the SCBU mill and it is very hard on a marriage as others have said. In fact just the first year of a new baby can put a real strain on any relationship with the sleep deprivation and total change of lifestyle. Although sadly it sounds like your dh has not always been very good to you even before your dd was born... It sounds like he is playing with you and has said some truly horrible things. Do hope you are feeling OK today - I hope it all works out somehow.

I would carry on as normal, but just less needy. You don't want to have direct conflict with him, that just makes him run away. It needs to be more subtle. I know it sounds childish but look a bit bored or distracted when he is talking and pretend not to hear what he has said when he says it the first time. I am only half-joking. Keep busy and make your own plans, have your own secrets.

Hang on a minute, you have a newborn baby and you're doing his washing and making his meals?

WTF?

He should be doing more than half the housework right now as you are breastfeeding and so doing way more than half the childcare.

I would definitely stop washing his clothes and cooking his meals. Tell him either he helps out more around the house or pays for home help.

Men's jobs. FFS. How often does a car need washing? Funny how these so-called men's jobs don't take nearly as much time as "women's work".
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I was frightened of coming back on here incase I had upset you, but the thing is that distancing yourself, or anger, is actually a much more empowering emotion that fear. I do agree very much with whoever said that he is being cruel leaving his wedding ring off in full sight, for you to see. He is being cruel. I feel if you could feel a justifiable scorn or contempt for him, you would not feel so bad in yourself. And he would then have to do all the making-up things, instead of leading you around by the nose. I don't advocate giving up on a marriage lightly, and I'm not doing that here. But I do advocate you seeing your own importance in the family, and holding your head high. What do you have to grovel for? You've done nothing but love them both.

hi not posted for a while as I've been trying to get my head around things. Since I last posted things have been up and down. We have had a few heart to hearts where he has been unsure whether he wants to move out or not - fluctuating between going and staying (even to the point where he wanted to book a holiday!) almost hourly some days!

It has been so tempting to just tell him to go but the counsellor said to let him make his own decision.

I saw my counsellor again this week and explained that althought it was all well and good letting him make his own mind up it waas leaving me in limbo and I was struggling to cope. I said that I wanted to ask him to go.

She said that I could ask him to go - nothing stopping me - so long as it is about me and not him - ie I need this situation to change therefore I feel that it would be better if you moved out for a while to give us space.

I was going to say this that night but we had visitors then last night he was out for a drink with colleagues. He got in and something triggered an argument (small one) and I said that I needed the situation to change and that I felt it would be better if he moved out. He said that he has already arranged to view some flats this weekend I felt upset that this had come out in an arguement particularly when I had lost my cool and wasn't being as assertive about my needs as I wanted to be

Part of me is relieved that he is moving out but I'm so sad and although I know this is normal it hurts so much. I'm also scared how I will cope on my own with my LO.

I'm really angry that he gets to spend time on his own to work this out yet I have to be there and be strong for my LO. I have considered intorducing some bottles so I can have a break but TBH i really think that this will make me feel worse. I love the closeness that I get with Breastfeeding and feel strongly about continuing as it best for my LO.

The plan is that he moves out for a month to see how he feels and also give me some space. Once he has been to see the flats we are going to work out how it will work with regards to him seeing LO.

Think for the first week we will be having no contact and he will have no access to LO just to give us a good clean break. After that not sure how we will work it.

Just so sad how things are turning out but suppose I should be positive that he has finally made a decision and is doing something proactive about things.

Next thing is telling our parents which I am dreading - I want their support but feel that along with this I am going to inevitabley get pity and I HATE pity.

Hi MHIS. Have just caught up with your thread. Sorry to hear that things are still up and down, but glad to hear you are seeing a counsellor and that it is helping you.

It sounds like the trial separation will be good for you - you need a bit of certainty one way or another. Yes it is normal to be sad and scared but you have to allow yourself to feel these things, to 'grieve' in a way. You've proved to everyone here that you are stronger than you think and given that you'd already been doing all the childcare and housework/cooking etc, in practical terms you'll do it standing on your head! Just focus on yourself and LO, you don't need a man to give yourself value, you are a valuable person in your own right and a mother, therefore a strong woman.

Try not to worry about telling your parents - i think you definitely should because you'll need their support. Be matter of fact about it, say it is better this way and ask them to concentrate on helping you move forward while you and husband work thinks out, rather than raking over reasons etc.

As for continuing to breastfeed or not, it sounds like it is important to you, and you are doing AMAZINGLY btw. Your gut feeling on this will tell you what is the best thing to do, even if people are saying give her a bottle to give yourself a break. But if that is what you decide to do, don't feel guilty as you have already given your LO the best possible start in life.

Can I also respectfully say, don't get so hung up on what you've said to husband and how you said it, whether you 'undid good work' or whatever. You are entitled to get exasperated/upset/tired whatever, you can't be a robot when dealing with this.

keep us updated.

Thanks fluffyanimal your comments mean a lot today x

I really needed to tell someone about what has happened re him making this decision but can't get hold of the RL friend who knows about the situation.

My parents are coming later but I'm not going to tell them until he has actually moved out - think because part of me is hoping that he will decide he loves me and we can make it work and he won't need to move out.

He has worn his wedding ring today - because I want him to wear it and he said that he wants to do something for me rather than being selfish and just doing what he wants..but he doesn't want to wear it really Not sure if this is good or bad or if I should have said just leave it off...

I reallyhave to stop obsessing over him and concentrate on me and my LO but I'm really struggling at the moment.

God why is life so cruel?

I really think you should tell your parents. Apart from anything else, the more RL people you tell, the easier it will be for you to accept the reality of the situation. If people don't know what's going on, it's so easy to pretend it might all go away.

FWIW my husband has never worn a wedding ring. His reason "working class northern men don't wear jewellery" . I was a bit hurt at the time we got married but decided in the end it was how he treated me that counts. If I were you I'd really try to bite my tongue on that issue, and if he leaves it off, just tidy it away into a bedside drawer so that you don't have to look at it.

Hope you enjoy your parents' visit.