How am I going to get through this :( (long post sorry!)

[MyHeadIsSpinning]

I've been with DH for over 10yrs, married for 1 and have a new baby. LO was born prem and we have been going through hell but she is home now and doing well.

DH has always been indecisive and before each major milestone, getting engaged, a house, married etc he has had a panic and discussed splitting up as he doesn't think he loves me enough to get engaged, buy a house, get married etc.

However once we have talked things through and he has had his stress he always decides that he does love me and wants to be with me.

Surprisingly getting pregnant was one thing that he didn't stress about and was really happy that we were expecting. When I delilved LO early and it was touch and go for me and LO - apparently cos I was out of it but have been told by various people - DH was a bit of a mess which was understandable, ie couldn't speak for crying. However he won't talk about this and although has been supportive during the weeks LO was in hospital on SCBU I feel he could have been there for me more than he was.

Over the weekend things have come to a head. We've been having a few niggly arguements and he has said over the past few weeks that he isn't sure if he loves me enough (again) and has been thinking about us splitting up. Yesterday I made a real effort - did my hair and make up etc and tried hard to make an effort - we had agreed to do this the night before. However DH didn't notice the effort I had made and was sullen all day only speaking when I spoke to him etc. When I cracked and said that his behaviour was upsetting me and I was upset that he hadn't commented that I looked nice - he said that he hadn't noticed that I'd made an effort and didn't think I looked as though I had particularyly

We had a 'discussion' during which he told me that;

He feels it would have been easier if I had died when havign LO as this would have ade things easier for him ie wouldn't have to decided to stay with me or not - this really hurt and he knows how bad it sounded.

He doesn't feel that he loves me enough and wishes that he's 'had the balls to leave me before marrying an having a baby'

When I asked why he married me he said he thought it would be a solution to how he was feeling about being not sure about the relationship and everyone else seemed to think it was a good idea. He was NOT pressurised into marrying me or indeed even staying with me.

The arguement went on until I said that I wasn't prepared to share our baby and him be a weekend dad. That isn't why I brought her into the workd to be passed about between two homes etc. I told him that it's all or nothing he either has us both or looses us both cos I'm not beign a part time mum and our daughter needs a full time dad.

He went to walk out of the room and I asked him how he felt right then - he replied like he wants to die

I left him to cool off and then went upstairs to see him. He was sat on the bed crying. He Said that he loves our daughter and doesn't want to be a part time dad but isn't sure that he loves me enough etc. He broke down and cried so hard he was howling and holding on to me - this is not like him he cries but only a little. This was a major breakdown kind of cry.

We have decided to see how things go for a couple of months and both make a real effort to make our marriage work He has said that he would rather fall back in love with me and make it work but at the moment isn't sure that this is possible.

I just feel so empty and don't know what to think. Part of me feels so sorry for him cos I love him and he is hurting and I want to make things better but can't) I have suggested that maybe he is depressed after the birth and the general situation and he said that he doesn't think so cos he just feels the same way as he has previously.

On the other hand I'm so angry with him for what he has said and that he is taking away this precious time with my new baby cos I can't enjoy her as much as I would cos I'm worried about the future and being on my own if he does leave us.

He finds talking difficult so I'm off to buy a couple of notepads for us both to write our feeligns in about the relationship and anything else over the coming months - I feel for me it will be cathartic and help when I really want to talk and he doesn't, for him I hope that writing down his feeligns and fears will help put them into perspective and help him to work through how he feels whatever the outcome may be.

I just feel sooo sad and can't stop thinking about what he has said and also part of me thinks that maybe we shoudl just call it a day and I can move on and find someone who does love me although not sure this would work as the person I want to love me doesn't Also I really don't want to be a single parent.

I am not encouraged by what you have written MHIS. You are letting him call all the shots and he is just messing you around. He has a choice. It is his choice to make. Either he starts being a proper husband and father and is loving and respectful and supportive to you OR if he sees no future in your relationship and doesn't love you - then he must leave.

At the moment, it sounds as if he is just staying with you because it is easier for him, financially and practically, than leaving you.

Don't let him insult you and then sleep with you. He will have no respect for you. It is just sex, not love. He feels relieved and less trapped after getting his negativity out, his ego is boosted by seeing you vulnerable and upset, he shags you. The whole cycle starts again. It is abusive and will only make things worse. You should value yourself more than this. Why is that you only sleep together after he has upset you? Hmm?

He shouldn't have married you and had a baby with you if he wasn't committed to you. What kind of man does that? (Don't answer because I know.)

You went to counselling before. You say:
'she was very black and white and said we had no future because my DH has to think about making a decision which I found very negative and TBH quite opinionated and not objective at all. At the moment in his present state of mind if someone said this to DH he would gladly let someone make the decision for him and split up.'

Well I think the counsellor was right, actually. And the thing is that your DH would like someone else to make the decision for him but, even then, he probably won't leave because he is too weak and selfish and lazy and confused. You can't expect a counsellor to flatter you both, pander to your egos and hypnotise him into being in love with you. The counsellor was being objective and could see that he was just using you.

I understand that you want to save your marriage, and I would support you in this, but I am becoming more and more convinced by what you have written that there is no future in this. And certainly not if you don't stand up to him. Your previous post was more positive. Now you have just let him walk all over you again.

You seem very dependent on him. I know it is easy to judge when you are not there and much more complicated when it is your relationship. I have been there, done that. The thing is that a good relationship isn't hard and it doesn't make you feel bad. It sounds as if he was never really in love with you and you shouldn't have persuaded him to marry you. He has just been using you as a mother figure all this time, someone to live with. I don't think he will ever make you happy. I still think he has chronic mild depression and should see a doctor.

My advice would be:
Insist on counselling and not just one session.
Do not sleep with him for the time being (indefinitely, until this is resolved).
Do not take any shit from him - he can express his negativity in the counselling sessions if he wants to. Stand up for yourself and demand respect.

If he won't go along with any or all of the above, he needs to leave.

I am sorry to sound so opinionated. I know it is difficult but I think your relationship is very unhealthy for both of you. You are very attached to him but, more than that, you are just scared to be on your own after all this time and scared to admit you made a mistake, the marriage is a failure. The attachment would wear off and you would, in time, be happier with someone else who really likes/loves you.

Very good post sky.

Thanks for your replies however harsh they seem to me at the moment

I def want to do counselling nad he has agreed to this. I don't know if it's the way I'm phrasing my posts but he really isn't a horrible person. He is confused and wants to do what's right/the best thing for us all.

However we need someone else as together we are just going round in circles and not resolving any of the underlying issues.

I know I need to be brave and take control and despite how my post has been interpreted I have been stronger the past few days and I have said that I want him to leave. If I really pushed he would go, it's just that he has said that he doesn't want to cos he wants to be here with me that is making me hold back from pushing as I don't want to push him intothe 'wrong' decision whatever that may be. Ie I don't want him to stay if he really doesn't want to be with me but neither do I want him to go if he isn#t 100% sure he wants this - which he says he isn't more like 50/50 most of the time - sometimes more or less.

It's our first anniversary this week and I think I am expecting a lot from this which I suppose is setting myself up for a fall but in my head I'm kindof thinking if the day isn't a happy one then we need to do somethingmore drastic ie move out etc but if it's good and there is a glimmer that we can get back to how we were then maybe moving out is'nt the way forward.

Would any of you not suggest counselling first and then moving out if needs be?

I know I may sound dependant on him but with a newborn baby I think most women would feel the same inmy situation. Please don't look down onme for this I know I should be stronger but at the moment I haven't got the strength and each day he is here is a day I don't have to manage on my own

MHIS - no one means to look down on you. I can't imagine for a moment how hard it is for you with a new baby too .

I just think because we are seeing it objectively, we are pointing out things that seem harsh but are probably very true.

He says he doesn't want to leave because he 'wants to be there with you', but at the same time he says he doesn't want to be with you, that he doesn't love you or fancy you and he is with you out of duty.

I feel as skyatnight said, he is actually confused, but also weak and selfish.

I think if he is willing to try counselling then you should go for it before trying a separation. The fact that he has changed his mind about going to counselling is good, as long as he is doing it because he wants to, not to put you off making him leave.

I wish you so much luck with this x

Hi MHIS, sooooo sorry to hear what you are going through. It is awful for you and it is eating into the valuable time you should be spending enjoying your baby. Poor you.

Don't really have any advice but i just felt so sad reading your thread. Your DH sounds very confused and unhappy. I think you do rely on him a lot but that is understandable with a LO. But i also think he is messing with your head and he has said some awful things to you. If i was really harsh i'd say get rid and move on but that isn't easy or even the right thing to do.

You sound like you don't want him to go but he isn't doing you any good being there and tbh he seems to be acting very selfishly.

THis happened to me then I found out he had been having an affair , I thought he was depressed and tried all the tactics you have. Ask him if theres someone else , I know its painful but you could work through it, He needs to get councelling at this stage preferably together but maybe he would see his doctor just to talk if nothing else. I did nothing and it ended in tragedy. Ask him if he will really be happier not seeing his child grow up every day. Its hard though and the first few weeks with a baby are the worst life improves after a few weeks he should hold on because he might find the uplift helps. Bless you my heart goes out to you I know exactly how you feel its emotionally exhausting and hard to think of anything else. Hold in there it might as easily just pass.

The other thing you could do is just concentrate on yiour baby and make sure you enjoy. Dont worry about him let him do his own thing and see if when you take the pressure off he comes back to you emotionally. I waited 7 months to see sadly it didnt work out but I had a helping hand for that long at least and he did help me with the baby sometimes which was better than nothing.
Its worth trying as its a bad time to make major descisions in life for both of you.

Years ago I had a boyfriend who would chicken out at the last moment whenever we reached a major change. For example we agreed that I would move into his flat, I was about 21 and still living at home. Arranged it all, my parents agreed etc and then he said he'd changed his mind.

This became a pattern, usually he'd change his mind again. Eventually I realised that if I was too keen it'd put him off. Once I worked this out I would do my best not to be extra keen and in fact on ocassion was quite 'off' with him. It always worked. Your dh sounds like this old bf of mine.

You keep trying to make a decision or get one from him and then you continue to discuss 'us'. Stop, tell him he has to go, stop saying you want to save the marriage and tell him that you deserve better and it's not good enough. This will result in either a repaired marriage or the swift end of one without long drawn out pain.

MHIS. I've re-read my last post and I do sound very harsh. Sorry. I quite understand that you would do almost anything to save your marriage, because you love him, because you need him, because you are married, because you have a child, because you feel vulnerable and don't want to be alone with your child after all the trauma of the premature birth. No-one would congratulate you for chucking away your marriage. It would also seem unwise to do so, so soon after the birth.

The problem is that you sounded such a doormat in the post that I responded to and, to be honest, self-deluding, particularly about the consellor. Like he has brainwashed you. I think that is why I responded in such a matter-of-fact judgmental way. He may not be a 'bad' person as such but he is taking advantage of you, whether he is doing it consciously or not. Your low self-esteem is making it easy for him.

You sound like a businessperson who is throwing good money after bad in order to save a vanity project and avoid admitting that it has all been a mistake.

You say each day he is here is a day that you don't have to manage on your own. Are you depressed? Are you frightened to be on your own with your child? This would be understandable considering you are a new mother of a premature baby with an unsupportive husband.

I don't suggest that you ask him to leave. It is his choice and responsibility whether he does or not. I wouldn't worry too much either that he will leave you as it doesn't seem too likely. On the other hand, it could be a positive thing.

At the same time, don't rely on him. He is leeching you dry of any confidence I assume you once had. It sounds like it has been a very gradual process so you may not even notice it any more. You really thought that you had got things on track when he agreed to marry you and have a child but it doesn't sound as if he felt that any of it was a joint responsibility. It may not feel like it at the moment but you do deserve better. It is sometimes better to be alone than in a bad relationship.

I think he would value you more if you were less understanding. I believe this because he sounds like the sort of person who only wants what he can't have. He is also feeding on your desperation.

I do think you should both go to the doctors and both go to counselling.

Oh well. I know from my own circumstances that it is so easy to give advice and so hard to take it when you are lost and confused and down. There are no simple solutions to relationship problems, especially if it's your relationship. It is very hard to see the wood for the trees when you are in the thick of it.

I think you know it is important that you concentrate on the baby at the moment and, if keeping your relationship together is the best or only way you can handle this, then that is what you must do.

So, for your own peace of mind, don't give up on this relationship yet (I hope things turn out for you like littlegreyrabbit's story) but, over time, work on your own independence and self-esteem, your own happiness. You can't be part of a healthy relationship until you know that you can manage and be happy on your own. An old cliche but true.

Best wishes. You do have a kind of determined strength I think but anyway there are always people here to support you if you need a sounding board.

I agree with what mima and scanner have written.

This may sound a bit off the wall but you don't think your DH may have a secret do you?...like he's gay or a tranny or something? Know that may sound wierd and hope i haven't offended you but sometimes people act wierd because they are hiding a guilty secret and can't live with themselves..he does seem very confused and acting strangely without consideration for your feelings. Sorry, i may be completely wrong and barking up totally the wrong tree and if i am i apologise in advance.

MHIS

God I've really lost all patience with your ridiculous excuse for a husband

Of course you're dependent on him with a brand new baby. How could you be otherwise? That's one of the reasons his behaviour is so infuriating and unjustifiable.

You guys have just started a new family and he's whining on about you not having sexy eyes?

FFS he sounds like some spoilt adolescent who doesn't have the confidence to dump the girlfriend he's grown bored of because he's got no guarantees of someone new and he doesn't have any friends because he's such an utter sap.

If he were 15 he'd be a cliche. He's a grown man, I can't believe he's not ashamed to be carrying on in such a juvenile, asinine way.

TBH I think you two have a really toxic relationship. He treats you very, very badly. You keep defending him and his agonies over the most inconsequential and shallow things because somehow over the years you've become convinced that it's normal to be in a relationship with someone who constantly undermines you, never lets you get comfortable or settled, and keeps you on your toes with endless threats to leave.

Does that sound abusive? Because take away the (extremely unattractive) whiny, over-emotional nonsense he likes to indulge in and that's all you're left with: a man who wants you around entirely on his own terms.

You claim that he'd leave if you pushed. I don't believe that for a second. He'll never leave willingly until he's found someone else to take your place. He'll just always make you think that it's you that's begging him to stay. In fact he's more dependent on you than you are on him.

The pathetic slug.

Call his bluff. Ask him to leave and mean it. If you really want to stay with this man you can change everything by recognising the power you have here.

Go skidoodle! Totally agree with everything you've just said..he is a pathetic excuse for a man and MHIS should take control now.

Sorry not posted for a while. Had an 'ok' week but obviously thing still not right. I have confided in a RL friend and she said that after the birth of their dd she went to counselling with her dp. Said having a child is a big adjustment etc.

She has given me the number of her counsellor and I'm going to see her today. Plan to go on my own first then with DH - if he will come.

After an up and down wkend everything kicked off last night. DH was on the computer and when I asked to nip on and check my email he suspisicously closed his email but not before I noticed an email full of smiley faces etc. I asked who it was off and he got very defensive - he says he wasn't - and wouldn't tell me who it was off - I suspect another woman because of his reaction.

Anyway to cut a long story short he wouldn't tell me who it was off - eventually said it was a reply from someone on a forum and promised it was not from any other woman etc.

I have tried reasoning with him that I feel I need 'proof' in the current situation and asked to see the email in question. He refused point blank and when I pushed him this morning he went mad and said it was over between us and left for work.

I'm now sat here in turmoil as I think I probably overreacted to the email but there is a niggly voice in my head that says if it was nothing then he would have shown me -he said not showing on matter of principle as I should trust him

MHIS big higs to you - why dont you discuss this with the counsellor and get their thoughts? At least you will have a view from someone who is not so close to the pain and emotion. Good luck

PS sounds more like fear of discovery than principle to me I fear. I hope I am wrong

I am sorry MHIS but any man who continually says it is over and he is leaving, when you have a small child together, is really not worth having. I doubt he will leave and, of course, there is something dodgy about this email, but, for me, it is by the by. Why on earth do you still want to be with him? Are you a masochist? Life on your own with your child would be far more pleasant than living with this spoilt, deluded man-child. Almost any other man would be better than this one.

I love him
I believe that deep down he loves me
I am the mother of his child
I don't want to be without him
I don't want my child to have a PT dad
I think we are worth fighting for

He has emailed to apologise for loosing his temper and added a big kiss at the end.

I don't think he is playing with my emotions intentially but is just really confused atm, as am I.

Hopefully the counselling session will give me some clarity - I realise won't happen over night and not going to be an easy ride but think my taking this first step is the most positive thing either of us can do at the moment

Yes, I understand but I do think that your love for him is really that of a mother, not a wife. The fact that you seem so blind to his abuse and almost end up re-inventing the wheel in coming up with ways of excusing his behaviour - it beggars belief. You have the kind of blind love for him that some mothers have for their children who are confirmed criminals.

And he is acting like a teenager. Saying it is over and he is leaving, and then nothing happens... Over and over again. Sending emails apologising and big kiss. It is really juvenile.

My concern is that he will eventually go off with a teenager. It is only a naive teenage girl who would not see what an immature idiot he is. Or he may still not leave you, for financial reasons, but he will have affairs with teenagers on the side. He definitely sees you as his mother, not his wife. What is his relationship like with his mother?

skyatnight
I don't think that my love for him is blind. I'm very hurt and angry at what he is doing to me atm and I realise that our relationship as it is is NOT healthy for either of us. But i do want to make this work because we do get on well inbetween his bouts of indecisiveness ( there has been about 5, about once every two year) and after so long together I don't think throwing in the towel after just a year of marriage and a few moths of parenthood, especially considering what we have been through recently - is the answer. I think that we should have worked through these issues sooner with counselling but we didn't and I can't change that, however I can do something about it now and that's what I plan to do starting today.

I got married for better and for worse and I want to work at my marriage and hopefully come out the other side better for it.

I don't think he sees me as a mother figure. He has a good relationship with his mum.

MHIS - Of course I don't know you or him and I can only go on what you write here but it just does sound as I have described below.

As I have said before, no-one would be pleased or admire you if you chucked away your marriage. I do understand why you want to continue trying to make things work and to leave no stone unturned in terms of pursuing counselling, etc.. I admire your resolve to work through this.

The thing that I find frustrating and that really sounds the warning bells to me is the things you have written excusing his behaviour. It just sounds as if you put all the effort in to the relationship and he just gets to be rude to you and evasive. He takes so little responsibility. I really think you must stick up for yourself more. He knows how desperate you are to keep him and so he has little respect for you and can keep messing you around. I believe you need to get to a point where he realises that it is his problem and responsibility and that you are willing to let him go if he won't do something about it.

In order to do this he really needs to move out for the interim. As things stand currently, he has nothing to lose. It is significant that it is you who are going to go to counselling to start off with. Why isn't he going too? Why hasn't he gone to the doctor to get antidepressants if he is confused and hasn't come to terms with the premature birth? It is you who are taking the responsibility again, when it should be him.

As I said, I don't understand why you want to be with him. But you do. Fine, but he must start taking some responsibility for his own problems. Your acceptance and forgiving of his behaviour means that he doesn't have to.

He sounds very controlling - he enjoys it. He says he wished you died during childbirth and that he doesn't fancy you!! He says unforgivable (IMHO) things to you then you have sex. This entire relationship sounds toxic.

I think that you have been in this relationship so long that you have lost all sense of perspective. This is not normal behaviour for a man.

Stop making excuses for him and assert yourself. See a solicitor, CAB and start moving on with your life. I know you are scared of being a single mum but I strongly sense that he will always let you down and this would be a terrible environment for your child to grow up in.

Sorry, but you deserve better.

you believe he loves you "deep down"?

despite all he says and does

what would it take to shake this belief?

to me it sounds like blind faith. you are determined that he will love you, he has no say in the matter

Hi

I went to see the counsellor today and found the experience really useful. We talked about how I feel about the relationship and other things in my life atm - like dealing with DD birth and her time on scbu.

The counsellor said a lot of the things thta you have all said on here - but was positive and pointed out that it takes to to make or break a marriage/relationship and although some of the things he has said are very harsh and that he should be supporting me I have to look at how I fit into this relationship. I can be controlling in that I need answers and need to know them 'NOW'. She also pointed out that I am often so 'effcient' that I am maybe not allowing DH the space to make his own decisions and I am 'parenting' him.

She said that although he maybe acting immature in his responses to what we are going through I have to take some responsibility for this as he can only act immature if I let him and 'parent' him rather than having an equal relationship.

I'm going to see her again next week and hope that DH will see her too as she said that obviously this will help but he needs to go of his own free will otherwise it won't work. In time I hope we can go together - will be cheaper! - and start to move forward one way or another.

It has given me hope because although she hasn't made any promises and I know she can't - noone can - I feel more positive about the situation. She said above all I need to look after myself and be assertive, whilst allowing DH to make his own decisions.

hmmmmm maybe some of you MNers should be counsellors lol

have read most of the thread and am so sorry for all you've been thru..

I think that with all the mn advice and the counsellor backing up (!) what everybody's said you can now see the way to go.

Good luck...follow the counsellor's advice to the letter!!

I think the parenting of a partner is a 'trap' a lot of us fall into. I know i do. It is often said that men never grow up - and i do think that we do sometimes use this as a form of control.

Anyway glad to hear you found the session worth while and hope it works out for you.