How am I going to get through this :( (long post sorry!)

[MyHeadIsSpinning]

I've been with DH for over 10yrs, married for 1 and have a new baby. LO was born prem and we have been going through hell but she is home now and doing well.

DH has always been indecisive and before each major milestone, getting engaged, a house, married etc he has had a panic and discussed splitting up as he doesn't think he loves me enough to get engaged, buy a house, get married etc.

However once we have talked things through and he has had his stress he always decides that he does love me and wants to be with me.

Surprisingly getting pregnant was one thing that he didn't stress about and was really happy that we were expecting. When I delilved LO early and it was touch and go for me and LO - apparently cos I was out of it but have been told by various people - DH was a bit of a mess which was understandable, ie couldn't speak for crying. However he won't talk about this and although has been supportive during the weeks LO was in hospital on SCBU I feel he could have been there for me more than he was.

Over the weekend things have come to a head. We've been having a few niggly arguements and he has said over the past few weeks that he isn't sure if he loves me enough (again) and has been thinking about us splitting up. Yesterday I made a real effort - did my hair and make up etc and tried hard to make an effort - we had agreed to do this the night before. However DH didn't notice the effort I had made and was sullen all day only speaking when I spoke to him etc. When I cracked and said that his behaviour was upsetting me and I was upset that he hadn't commented that I looked nice - he said that he hadn't noticed that I'd made an effort and didn't think I looked as though I had particularyly

We had a 'discussion' during which he told me that;

He feels it would have been easier if I had died when havign LO as this would have ade things easier for him ie wouldn't have to decided to stay with me or not - this really hurt and he knows how bad it sounded.

He doesn't feel that he loves me enough and wishes that he's 'had the balls to leave me before marrying an having a baby'

When I asked why he married me he said he thought it would be a solution to how he was feeling about being not sure about the relationship and everyone else seemed to think it was a good idea. He was NOT pressurised into marrying me or indeed even staying with me.

The arguement went on until I said that I wasn't prepared to share our baby and him be a weekend dad. That isn't why I brought her into the workd to be passed about between two homes etc. I told him that it's all or nothing he either has us both or looses us both cos I'm not beign a part time mum and our daughter needs a full time dad.

He went to walk out of the room and I asked him how he felt right then - he replied like he wants to die

I left him to cool off and then went upstairs to see him. He was sat on the bed crying. He Said that he loves our daughter and doesn't want to be a part time dad but isn't sure that he loves me enough etc. He broke down and cried so hard he was howling and holding on to me - this is not like him he cries but only a little. This was a major breakdown kind of cry.

We have decided to see how things go for a couple of months and both make a real effort to make our marriage work He has said that he would rather fall back in love with me and make it work but at the moment isn't sure that this is possible.

I just feel so empty and don't know what to think. Part of me feels so sorry for him cos I love him and he is hurting and I want to make things better but can't) I have suggested that maybe he is depressed after the birth and the general situation and he said that he doesn't think so cos he just feels the same way as he has previously.

On the other hand I'm so angry with him for what he has said and that he is taking away this precious time with my new baby cos I can't enjoy her as much as I would cos I'm worried about the future and being on my own if he does leave us.

He finds talking difficult so I'm off to buy a couple of notepads for us both to write our feeligns in about the relationship and anything else over the coming months - I feel for me it will be cathartic and help when I really want to talk and he doesn't, for him I hope that writing down his feeligns and fears will help put them into perspective and help him to work through how he feels whatever the outcome may be.

I just feel sooo sad and can't stop thinking about what he has said and also part of me thinks that maybe we shoudl just call it a day and I can move on and find someone who does love me although not sure this would work as the person I want to love me doesn't Also I really don't want to be a single parent.

It sounds very good.

Whatever you say in the next few weeks and maybe months, you have to be consistent. He needs a clear message so he knows exactly what he has to work with, and he has no opportunity to manipulate your words or avoid confronting what you are asking him to do. (So don't lose your temper and say something else!).

If i was in his shoes and arguing with my DH, if I didn't want to go in the direction you are pointing (i.e. if I wanted things back the way they were), I would try to shift the focus and provoke an argument. I would say something like:-

1. I notice you don't seem to think you have anything to apologise for at all! But then that has always been one of the biggest problems.
2. ... and if I don't do exactly as you wish, then you will force me out of my DD's life. (With a follow up line of "Oh, so you want to make me a weekend father")

The point I am trying to make is you have to be ready to deal with your DH saying whatever it is he says when he wants to distract you from the message you hoped to deliver as described in your post above. If you get into an argument, then the meeting becomes about the argument and only the worst things you each said will be remembered. For him, it won't be a step forward but at least he will have changed the agenda from the one you hoped to set and maybe he will feel more justified in his recent behaviour.

I;m still thinking about what I am going to do re talking about 'us'. Seeing another friend today who's not experienced the same directly but has experience of 2 close relatives doing so.

If DH hasn't replied by today do you think I should txt him and ask if he wants to see DD this weekend? Or leave it upto him to get in touch?

I suppose I would be doing it for the right reason in that I want him to see DD and her to see her Daddy. But if I'm honest part of me is doing it to get a response from him cos he has ignored my emails.

Bad idea?

Are you sure he got your last message?

If yes, then I think you already know the answer to your question.

But don't sit in limbo all weekend. Go out and keep busy.

Been out.
He rang wanting to come and get some more clothes.

I have said he can come this afternoon. Will decide whether to speak about 'us' when I see him.

However just realised that he rang from his mobile....he is staying at his parents as far as I know so not sure why he hasn't rung from their landline....now I'm thinking he must be with the OW

My friend says there could be any number of reasons why he has phoned on his mobile nad not to read too much into it...

Right I now know for def he was at his parents.

Plan to let him take all his clothes.

Not going to speak to him unless he speaks to me. Not going to get into a discussion about 'us'. Will discuss LO.

If he chooses to tell me how he is feeling I will listen but plan not to react. Just repeat that I need more time and space.

This sound okay?

How did it go?

What you wanted to say sounds perfect.

Keep listening to dittany

He came to get his stuff. Spent the first half hour with LO. He asked a few questions about what she had been doing etc and I answered them.

He then got his stuff and put it in the car.

We discussed contact with DD. Agreed that he would see her 2hrs x2 nights a week and one morning each weekend.

He was hanging around and I'm not really sure how it happened but we started talking about 'us'. This went on for 5 and half hours. Not sure where the time went.

I managed to remain calm throughout. No tears at all.

Some things were said more than once so in that respect I do feel that it was dragged out and maybe I should have asked him to leave sooner. At some points my head was shouting at me to ask him to leave but my need to know took over

I don't regret talking. Although I'm worried that it might have been the wrong thing to do and I've undone all my good work of keeping my distance.

Basically he has finally admitted that he did sleep with her. Apparently on two occasions earlier this year - once when DD was still on SCBU This hurt but not as much I imagined it would, suppose because deep down I always thought that he probably had done. But still not a nice thing to hear. Apparently they did other sexual stuff on several other ocassions ( I know I know I will never learn to stop asking questions)

He has told her that we have split (apparently he rang her the night I kicked him out) he has also said that it is over between them. They haven't met up since I knicked him out but she did email him and he replied and there have been text messages. They have spoken briefly at work too.

However he isn't sure what he wants. I told him that neither do I. This is why time apart for both of us is important. we both need to make changes and think about what we really want.

He said that he feels that on the one hand he could have a future with OW but also that we have a future too but not sure what to do atm.

I have said that until I see changes in his behaviour I can not decide if we have a future together and if he really wants to make us work that is a chance he has to take.

Feel numb.

Going to get some sleep and see how I feel in the morning....starting to feel angry atm

Now I feel hurt and sick. He slept with her and was still sleeping with me

Of course I've thought about it before and I suppose deep down I always thought maybe they had - there was always that doubt. Now I know for certain everything seems so raw again.

I feel so betrayed. Also he told his parents last week. I'm hurt that he told them before me. He said that this is one of the things that he wanted to talk about with me, but I wouldn't talk.

Anyone out there with any advice?

asyou said MHIS, you suspected anyway, so its not as if things are any worse than you imagined. I think you are right, though. You do need to stop asking questions as the things you are finding out are NOT making you feel any better.

Only you know how you want things to go, I understand that and i won't try and tell you what to do. I think you are very strong and that you deserve so much better.

He's still at it isn't he? Not being able to decide. Can't decide whether to be with you or whether to be with OW. He has absolutely not changed and is still paralysed by his inability to take responsibility for himself.
My guess is that he basically does whatever someone decides for him and believes it's not of his own making, therefore nothing is his fault or actual choice.
God this man needs some counselling.

I know Just had a long chat with a RL friend. He is just not up to being or even becoming the man I need at the moment.

Nothing I can say or do can change that I now (finally) realise that I have to get on with my life and let him get on with his. If at some point in the future he 'catches up' and can be the man I married/need him to be then it will be upto me to decide whether I can ever take him back.

MHIS I think you are so right. From what he was saying "oh I can see a future with you, AND with the OW" he was a) trying to shift the power balance in his favour again and b) carrying on being indecisive and keeping you emotionally vulnerable and uncertain in the process.

I'm so sorry he's hurt you so much by what he's done with the OW but I'm not surprised.

I just wanted to add that I almost never think parents should give up on their marriages; I really believe 'for the sake of the child' can be ok, sometimes. But in your case, I honestly think there's no future. Because what he does with you really is emotional abuse; to say it would have been easier if you'd died; and to keep you emotionally vulnerable as he does....it's far beyond what's normal.

I wouldn't blame you at all if you dump him. I think it is worth you pursuing a future where you are free and available for someone who LOVES you, to find you and your dd.

obviously only my opinion!

thanks HG!

Going out for a while to see some friends. Feeling better today than I did last night. One day at a time

These are all from your earlier posts :

"DH has always been indecisive and before each major milestone, getting engaged, a house, married etc he has had a panic and discussed splitting up as he doesn't think he loves me enough to get engaged, buy a house, get married etc. "

"When I asked why he married me he said he thought it would be a solution to how he was feeling about being not sure about the relationship and everyone else seemed to think it was a good idea. "

"He hates making decisions and I said well maybe if I'd died things would have been easier and he said yes they would. I brough t it up again later and he agreed that it was harsh but it was the way he felt that it would have taken the decision of what to do away from him. "

I think this very much IS the man you married - he hasn't changed and doesn't want to/see that he has to. I wouldn't romanticise the past, and believe that he was ever any different. the reality seems to be that you have seen the need for change and he hasn't.

Firtly, I am so glad that when he said "I'm not sure what I want" rather than going on at him for an answer you replied "Neither am I". It may seem really simple, but it actually took the "poor me" from him and shared it between you.

I think that it sounds as though you are coming to terms with the short-term future. You are quite right that he needs to "catch up", his behaviour is so childlike and irresponsible, while yours is so giving and caring, if you carried on the way you were he would have sucked you dry.

You have been so brave and held it all together so well. Your dd will grow up knowing her mother is a strong and independent woman, not a doormat kept in line by an emotionally controlling husband.

I know you didn't want to believe that he had slept with her, but you now know how much he deceived you. I think the funny thing is that had he told you the truth a few months ago, instead of lying, you might have been able to work this out. But that is his doing. As long as he was lying to you, there was not much you could do to increase communication.

It's time to move on. Let him grow up and sort himself out. It's not your responsibility anymore. Look after that beautiful dd of yours and don't think for one second that you are letting her down in all of this. You are being the role model that she needs and maintaining good access to her father. You should be proud of yourself. None of this is easy.

And I think the other thing to bear in mind is that it's not up to you to find the right form of words to make him see sense, or stay. Don't beat yourself up saying "if only I'd said this or that or done this or that"..., don't worry about your messages and how he will choose to read them. You have been single handedly trying to make the relationship work and he hasn't been playing ball.

I think you should just let him go away and experience the reality of his choice - his choice not to commit to the two of you.

It really is an appalling cliche: weak man has mid-life crisis affair because he doesn't want to grow up. (It's all your fault, of course!£))%)"£%??)

It is horrible to have your worst fears confirmed.

Reading between the lines, I suspect that he will want to come back. He has finally been honest. This honesty has only happened because you stood up to him and said enough is enough, get out. He had the affair partly for escapism from the trauma of the premature birth of your dd and partly because he wanted to passive-aggressive punish you for trying to get him to grow up, for 'making' him marry you, for 'making' him have a child with you. He never said he didn't want these things but he didn't want to grow up, couldn't face the responsibilities. It has made him feel inadequate (because he is) and he is blaming you for that. So he went for the quick fix of the affair as a way of boosting his ego and punishing you at the same time.

It doesn't mean he really wants this other woman. I don't think he does. And she probably doesn't really want him either. She has probably been frightened off by the fact that you now know. She is most likely as weak as he is, why else would she have chosen an affair with a married man?

So I suspect he will want to come back, in time. But he does need that time in order to take a good look at himself. He won't change fundamentally but he might learn a lesson from this and improve to some degree. If you decide to take him back, then the best chance for your relationship is if he would start 'courting' you from scratch. I.e., he has to take the initiative, arrange dates, put some effort in, arrange something novel and interesting, something that you would like. He has to take charge and look after you for a change, put your needs first. But not now, he needs to do some soul-searching first. And you need some time to think too.

You are the strong one. He has been criticising and undermining you because he knows he is weak compared to you. It made him feel better to see you upset. If he ever wants to have a successful relationship with you again, then he needs to step up to the mark. And I suppose you need to step back a bit.

I think he does respect you and he will remember this now that you are standing up to him. He will remember the attraction he felt for you and start to understand what he would be missing. But it would only work if that attraction is for you as a woman and an equal, not as someone who has looked after him and run his life and who he has taken for granted (and secretly resented because your strength highlighted his weakness). He needs time to get to this point. He has been with you so long that he felt like he was missing out on something. It's not fair on you but he probably does need to get this out of his system.

You may resolve things and get back together or you may not. Whatever happens, it will be for the best. It is a very common pattern when men have affairs. Now that he has hurt you, and made you feel as lost as he has always felt, he will want to make you feel better. But he needs to suffer and be held at arms length for a while. Maybe you don't want him back any more. If you do still want him, don't take him back until you are sure he has learned his lesson.

I must sound so patronising towards men but they do often behave like children - can't express their feelings properly so they do something sneaky instead.

I'm fluctuating between thinking sod him he's a B%*&%&d and I never want anything more to do with him for what he has put me through. To wondering if he will step up to the mark and we could ever at some point down the line have a future.

He has said that he is seriously considering going back to counselling and if he does he will go to the same counsellor as I do - and who we have seen together.

The thing is I feel so sick at what he has done. I'm not sure I could ever forgive the lies he has spun and the sexual aspects have hit me far harder than I thought they would - anyone know how to stop thinking about them together?

I'm trying not to make myself make decisions because I don't need to yet. Taking time out away from him will be the only positive thing I can do right now. It's easier than I thought TBH but still difficult.

I suppose like you say Raggerty now she is not the illicit OW some of the attraction may be lost. She has major issues and he has said that this puts him off having a relationship with her, apparently these issues have lead to the break up of her previous relationships. However I don't want him back simply cos he fed up with OW I want him back becuase he wants me and a life with me and only if he is prepared to put that above everything else and really work at it.

This is what I have said to him and like you say any relationship we MAY have would have to be starting from scratch. We would have to be like a new couple. I have also told him this.

BUT also throughout maintained that this is currently all hypothetical because he isn't the person I want to be with as he is now and unless he can change all these 'if's' are simply that there can never be any consideration of a relationship unless I feel he is the person I want to be with and feels the same way about me.

He had access to DD yesterday - again was late - 15 min. But this time txt to let me know before that he would be late and said sorry - no explanation why tho! He brought her back on time and this time she was fine - had been crying and he admitted this but she was fine.

I kept conversation to a minimumm - only about DD and nothing more than was necessary.

He is seeing her again tomorrow evening. I have a friend staying atm so have support and someone to be here when he comes round.

Him taking counselling seriously could be the key to all this I think.
I have seen someone change quite dramatically from a decision-phobe to someone at last taking responsibility through counselling, but he had to get to the point where he really wanted to change. It was a kind of breakdown really.

It will take a long time for him to learn new patterns, if it happens.

But tbh until/unless that happens I think you are better off without him and his emotional abuse, however unintentional. Sounds like he finds good reasons not to stick with anyone at the moment.

You're handling this well, MHIS. You do need some time to let it sink in.

I think he does have a depressive nature. He and that woman were just using each other. Those jibes about your appearance may have been attempts to push you away as he was freaking out inside with the 'stress' of being a new parent (still nasty though).

As dd gets a bit bigger and he is able to do more with her; as the shock of the birth fades; if he gets some counselling, etc. - all these things might help him to understand that it is important to him to be a husband and father and that family life is not perfect, and does require work, but it is worth it and it is satisfying and makes you happy/content in the long run. That he does love and appreciate you and dd.

But, as you say, does he deserve a second chance? Are you not going to be able to have any more children in case he freaks out again?

Been out all morning - just nipped back and then out for the afternoon - I have to keep busy at the moment otherwise I drive myself insane with thoughts of them together and how much hurt he has put me through.

My head is pounding and it keeps coming over me in waves, this feeling of utter devastation and sickness at what has happened

I'm keeping going for my LO but TBH it's a struggle atm

I've been to see my GP and had STi tests done, I have nothing to be ashamed of and she was so understanding but such a horrible thing to have to do, especially when I have only ever slept with my Husband

What i don't understand is why he felt obliged to tell you about sex with OW. He should never have done it. Since he did, he should have come clean when you were making a fresh start. So why keep quiet and then be desperate to unburden himself in the hours after you gave up and threw him out? You did not need the extra grief at that time, and there was no way he was helping you by sharing his guilty secret.

Its almost like a little boy showing his mummy what a mess he has made and giving her the broken pieces so she can fix it for him.

There is no way I know of forcing those images out of your head, except sheer will power. Not let yourself think of it even for a second, because then a secodn will become a minute and that will becomes a sleepless night. Look at a video of DD or something soothing if you can't force the images out.