How am I going to get through this :( (long post sorry!)

[MyHeadIsSpinning]

I've been with DH for over 10yrs, married for 1 and have a new baby. LO was born prem and we have been going through hell but she is home now and doing well.

DH has always been indecisive and before each major milestone, getting engaged, a house, married etc he has had a panic and discussed splitting up as he doesn't think he loves me enough to get engaged, buy a house, get married etc.

However once we have talked things through and he has had his stress he always decides that he does love me and wants to be with me.

Surprisingly getting pregnant was one thing that he didn't stress about and was really happy that we were expecting. When I delilved LO early and it was touch and go for me and LO - apparently cos I was out of it but have been told by various people - DH was a bit of a mess which was understandable, ie couldn't speak for crying. However he won't talk about this and although has been supportive during the weeks LO was in hospital on SCBU I feel he could have been there for me more than he was.

Over the weekend things have come to a head. We've been having a few niggly arguements and he has said over the past few weeks that he isn't sure if he loves me enough (again) and has been thinking about us splitting up. Yesterday I made a real effort - did my hair and make up etc and tried hard to make an effort - we had agreed to do this the night before. However DH didn't notice the effort I had made and was sullen all day only speaking when I spoke to him etc. When I cracked and said that his behaviour was upsetting me and I was upset that he hadn't commented that I looked nice - he said that he hadn't noticed that I'd made an effort and didn't think I looked as though I had particularyly

We had a 'discussion' during which he told me that;

He feels it would have been easier if I had died when havign LO as this would have ade things easier for him ie wouldn't have to decided to stay with me or not - this really hurt and he knows how bad it sounded.

He doesn't feel that he loves me enough and wishes that he's 'had the balls to leave me before marrying an having a baby'

When I asked why he married me he said he thought it would be a solution to how he was feeling about being not sure about the relationship and everyone else seemed to think it was a good idea. He was NOT pressurised into marrying me or indeed even staying with me.

The arguement went on until I said that I wasn't prepared to share our baby and him be a weekend dad. That isn't why I brought her into the workd to be passed about between two homes etc. I told him that it's all or nothing he either has us both or looses us both cos I'm not beign a part time mum and our daughter needs a full time dad.

He went to walk out of the room and I asked him how he felt right then - he replied like he wants to die

I left him to cool off and then went upstairs to see him. He was sat on the bed crying. He Said that he loves our daughter and doesn't want to be a part time dad but isn't sure that he loves me enough etc. He broke down and cried so hard he was howling and holding on to me - this is not like him he cries but only a little. This was a major breakdown kind of cry.

We have decided to see how things go for a couple of months and both make a real effort to make our marriage work He has said that he would rather fall back in love with me and make it work but at the moment isn't sure that this is possible.

I just feel so empty and don't know what to think. Part of me feels so sorry for him cos I love him and he is hurting and I want to make things better but can't) I have suggested that maybe he is depressed after the birth and the general situation and he said that he doesn't think so cos he just feels the same way as he has previously.

On the other hand I'm so angry with him for what he has said and that he is taking away this precious time with my new baby cos I can't enjoy her as much as I would cos I'm worried about the future and being on my own if he does leave us.

He finds talking difficult so I'm off to buy a couple of notepads for us both to write our feeligns in about the relationship and anything else over the coming months - I feel for me it will be cathartic and help when I really want to talk and he doesn't, for him I hope that writing down his feeligns and fears will help put them into perspective and help him to work through how he feels whatever the outcome may be.

I just feel sooo sad and can't stop thinking about what he has said and also part of me thinks that maybe we shoudl just call it a day and I can move on and find someone who does love me although not sure this would work as the person I want to love me doesn't Also I really don't want to be a single parent.

Excellent

I've sent it

I'm off out for a walk to the park now - prob meet a friend there.

I'll post again once I get a reply from him.

You sound so strong now and i really hope he does step up to the mark - even if it does not work out with you he needs to change his behaviour doesnt he?

quick qu before I go out.

I have his wedding ring. He hasn't asked for it. Do you think I should give it to him then if he wants to wear it he can. I'm not wearing mine.

Just cos I want him to so the OW can see......

I know I've got to stop caring but I can't

I sound it but don't feel it most of the time. BUT I do feel stronger than I have in a long time...maybe even ever!

No I think it's too soon for worrying about the wedding ring. It will come across as being too needy and too pressuring IMO. Forget about it. Also I would wait for him to think of it, then you know that if he chooses to, it is really his free will and not because he feels he has to.

Don't worry about the ring. If he's collecting more stuff stick it in an unmarked envelope and put it in his bag. Don't even mention it.

Of course you haven't stopped caring, that's normal, you need to learn how to care for yourself though. Time to put you and dd first in all things.

Okay. If he asks for more things to collect on Wed I will do as you say and put it in an envelope and put it in with whatever else he asks for.

He hasn't replied to the email yet...maybe he won't there were no questions. I have a feeling he rang a couple of hours ago - just got in checked the phone had a call from someone who witheld their number - he did this twice on Sat night so presume it was him again.

Had a lovely afternoon and trying hard to remain strong....not doing too badly today!

I have been keepign a diary and pics/video of DD to give to DH. Do you think I should give the diary to him when he come son Wed?

....or wait for now? Tell him I am doing it?

Just that I think his parents may be thinking that I am being bit harsh on him and I'm keen to prove that he is getting no more than he deserves but I am being very fair when it comes to our DD (and everything else I think)

If they're thinking that then they are silly and their opinion isn't worth much

When my dearest brother who is LOVELY split with his long term partner my mum, dad and I were nothing but kind and caring and understanding toward her, and we had to listen to her being quite upset with him (and he hadn't had any sort of affair this was just a split because they wanted different things) but we listened because we valued her and loved her as one of the family and we were prepared to accept there was fault on DB's side!!!!! I just say that to show that it doesn't always have to be that the parents 'side' with the husband JUST because he is their son. You've done absolutely nothing wrong and deserve their good opinion. So don't go thinking it's ok if they criticise YOU over this! You have been an angel over the years it seems to me, to their son.

Could you put the photos etc on to a disc and just leave it for him to take when he's visited? Then you're not getting into big dialogues with him but it is clear to him (and his parents) that you are being VERY thoughtful about keeping him in touch with his DD

Suppose that's an Idea. I will put all the holiday pics and the pics I have taken since he left onto a disc. Do you think I should do a print out of the diary I have kept on the computer?

A lovely idea as his parents can then see that you are thinking of them too.
Understand the hurt you feel about his parents h mum only saw his side and were no help to me.
I decided to cut all contact (i dont need people in my life who treat me like that when i have done nothing wron). I will allow the children to meet her and send letters and photos but no more. She made it quite clear that the fault was mine at the time and i got a really nasty letter outlining all my failings as a wife. She thought it was over and so now eats humble pie but for me it was one step too far.

Glad you are feeling some strengh now too.

I think it is natural for parents to want to look for the good in their own child, even if they are grown up. The last thing they want is to hear that its almost 100% their DS's fault and that he has done some terrible things without provocation.
Right or wrong, blood is thicker than water. I bet even axe murder's mothers want to think well of their sons!

I'd just let it wash over you, if I were you. You've got more to worry about than what your MIL thinks happened

I agree with Dittany. He doesn't deserve your consideration.

If your concern is for his and your daughter's relationship, from what you have said he is a reasonably good father. You don't want to ever be accused of making it difficult for him to see his daughter but, what is more relevant for you, you should be careful not to confuse the issue of the relationship between him and your daughter with your relationship with him. They are completely separate things. It's just that as your daughter is so young, you have to represent her in this matter. You want to be reasonable, that's fine, but I would keep things as simple as possible. I would ask him how often and when he would like to see his daughter (get him to have some input) and then work out whether that is convenient for you. Regular times would be best. Not too often such that it feels like he has never left.

I appreciate that your dd is little and so changing from week to week. He should be kept up to date on her development but only within reason. He had the affair, he treated you badly, he and his family will have to accept that there are some implications and repercussions because of that. Neither he nor your daughter will suffer because he doesn't see her everyday, provided reasonable contact is maintained.

It is very difficult right now when you are going through cognitive dissonance as a result of asking him to leave. You are afraid that you have taken an irrevocable step and confronting possibly big changes in your life. The truth is that something had to give. You couldn't go on as you were. From what I have read, I don't think you and he should be together, but, if your marriage is to be salvaged from this mess, it is up to him. Nothing you do or don't do (short of refusing ever to see him again, cutting off all contact, etc.) will make any difference, so you don't have to be afraid of all the nuances and deliberating over everything you say and write. It is natural to be obsessive about this at the moment but it would be better if you could switch off your feelings about him and concentrate on you and your child.

I think someone else has already said it: If you do ever get back together, your relationship will not stand a chance unless he has changed. He will not change overnight and he will not change unless he realises that the grass is not greener. This will take time (6 months plus?) He needs to miss you and miss his daughter in order to come to some realisations. If you bend over backwards to accommodate his needs and wants, he will never realise what has happened and if you let him come to your house too often, he will never miss you.

I think you know the above but it is a case of being careful not to slip back into old familiar ways in order to comfort yourself. The quickest way you can help him to decide what he wants is to be cool and neutral. To act as if it is definitely over, no way back. Don't say those words, don't say anything, don't write to him, there's no need. Don't deliberate and obsess over every nuance, it won't make any difference what you do. Just arrange reasonable contact visits for him to see his daughter.

Otherwise, ignore him. Have as little contact as possible and say as little as possible when you do see him, just what is reasonable. Refuse to get involved in an emotional discussion for at least another month if not much longer. He needs time to think. When some time has elapsed (6 months to a year or longer) and he then comes back to you and is serious and wants to try again (not sure whether this is possible for him or will ever really happen) then suggest meeting with a mediator to discuss the end of your marriage and/or whether it is possible to save it.

I think that giving him a copy of the photos is a nice thing to do. But I wouldn't give him a print out of the diary. At least not at the moment. Try to keep it all to a minimum. That way you're not excluding him from dd's life, but you are separating yourself from it.

You're still doing brilliantly. Lots of good advice on here.

Don't worry about his parents at all. They are being unfair on you and it sounds as though they really don't know the whole story. Remember that they will have been fed a sugar-coated version of the story. Probably something along the lines of "I got really close to this woman at work, nothing ever happened, but MHIS thinks I'm having an affair (poor poor me)". So they will be thinking you were unfair when you weren't. So their views are not important.

Thanks for all your comments.

Happywoman - can I ask how long you left it before you had contact with your DH after askign him to leave?

I can see what people are saying about having distance and time but 6mths seems far too long not to discuss what has happened and how we want to move forward be that seperately or together.

I'm starting to stress about DH comin gover tomorrow evening to see DD We haven't had any actual contact since he left on Wed last week.

Someone please help me out!

I don't know what I should or shouldn't say to him. Should I tell him things DD has done this week - there have been a few milestones that he is completely unaware of Or should I only answer his questions if he asks about her? But then I feel like I am witholding info about his own daughter that others know and that feels wrong.

If he starts trying to discuss 'us' what should I do? I am thinking of saying - so long as I can hold it together! - I am not ready to speak to you about us, please respect that. Or should I let him say whatever he wants to say but not respond otr get into a discussion? Tell him to email it instead?

It's just I so want to speak to him, want to hear what he has to say - I know, I know I need to hold out but it goes against the grain and I'm so sad - just want to talk to him, want to hear what he has to say - want to hear that he is sorry and that he loves me and he has said as much in his emails but to hear it from him..... I know I can't just take him back and I won't but I'm scared that by being too hard and repeatedly refusing to speak to him I may be pushing him away and I don't want to do that BUT neither do I want to offer myself back to him on a plate.

If we are going to get through this then he needs to put a lot of work into changing himself and needs to put a massive amount of effort into us.

Help !

I don't think you should see him tomorrow. Didn't you say you were going to get a friend to do the handover?

It felt to clinical and TBH I'm not confortable with leaving her at all at the moment.

I have specified he can coem for 1hr.

I have a friend who will be here with me and I am determined I wilnot get into a conversation with him.

Yeah i really don't think you should see him tomorrow either. I know it's painful but the state you're in now, judging from your last post, you may well be talked into taking him back then you will be back to square one and he will revert sooner or later to his bad behaviour because you have demonstrated to him that you will put up with it/believe his lies/let him back in. It's painful i know as you are desperate to talk to him, but think of it as a long campaign that you need to go through to get him to respect you. if you give up now and let him back in then you will have lost that campaign and he'll be free to shit all over you again. Be strong. You will not push him away by being firm with him; you will in fact make him even more keen to get back with you. They always want what they can't have. He will respect you more for standing your ground and start to admire you. He has shown total disdain for you in the past, so things can only get better by "playing hard to get" so to speak.

I'm feeling stronger than I did before. I plan to be downstairs with my friend and he can take her for a bath and play with her in her nursery. If he tried to go over his time my friend will politely ask him to leave.

I will not waste all the effort I have put in so far by allowing him to sweet talk me.

I know I have to remain strong and firm and I will do. I'm seeing my counsellor tomorrow afternoon too and that always gives me more resolve.

My other option is to maybe go for a walk or a drive whilst he is here - just don't like the idea of leaving DD.

In fact that might be a better idea - I could do with getting some shopping so could go and do that whilst he is here.

Hmm think I've just talked myself into not being here and leaving DD - how did that happen?

You can leave her for one hour with her Dad.

My DD is a little younger than yours and I'm back at work already

I do understand how you feel, because you get so used to always being with them but if you just go out for a walk or somewhere very nearby you will be fine.

You know she's in good hands, as she's with her Dad.

Yes I know and my friend will be here all the time just in another room.

Think what I shall do is be here when he arrives tell him he can bath her if he wishes, then go out, I will come back an hour later.

If he is tries to talk I will stand firm and say that I am not ready to talk yet and he must respect that. Tell him I will email re next visit then ask him to leave.

I will brief my friend and have her ready to step in so I can walk away if he starts to pester me and she can see him out.

TBH he seems to be respecting the no contact since my last email.

Think I was bit wobbly before because I was thinking about him going in work tomorrow - he is due back in but not sure if he is or whether he is taking more time out - If he is back in he will def be seeing OW.