How am I going to get through this :( (long post sorry!)

[MyHeadIsSpinning]

I've been with DH for over 10yrs, married for 1 and have a new baby. LO was born prem and we have been going through hell but she is home now and doing well.

DH has always been indecisive and before each major milestone, getting engaged, a house, married etc he has had a panic and discussed splitting up as he doesn't think he loves me enough to get engaged, buy a house, get married etc.

However once we have talked things through and he has had his stress he always decides that he does love me and wants to be with me.

Surprisingly getting pregnant was one thing that he didn't stress about and was really happy that we were expecting. When I delilved LO early and it was touch and go for me and LO - apparently cos I was out of it but have been told by various people - DH was a bit of a mess which was understandable, ie couldn't speak for crying. However he won't talk about this and although has been supportive during the weeks LO was in hospital on SCBU I feel he could have been there for me more than he was.

Over the weekend things have come to a head. We've been having a few niggly arguements and he has said over the past few weeks that he isn't sure if he loves me enough (again) and has been thinking about us splitting up. Yesterday I made a real effort - did my hair and make up etc and tried hard to make an effort - we had agreed to do this the night before. However DH didn't notice the effort I had made and was sullen all day only speaking when I spoke to him etc. When I cracked and said that his behaviour was upsetting me and I was upset that he hadn't commented that I looked nice - he said that he hadn't noticed that I'd made an effort and didn't think I looked as though I had particularyly

We had a 'discussion' during which he told me that;

He feels it would have been easier if I had died when havign LO as this would have ade things easier for him ie wouldn't have to decided to stay with me or not - this really hurt and he knows how bad it sounded.

He doesn't feel that he loves me enough and wishes that he's 'had the balls to leave me before marrying an having a baby'

When I asked why he married me he said he thought it would be a solution to how he was feeling about being not sure about the relationship and everyone else seemed to think it was a good idea. He was NOT pressurised into marrying me or indeed even staying with me.

The arguement went on until I said that I wasn't prepared to share our baby and him be a weekend dad. That isn't why I brought her into the workd to be passed about between two homes etc. I told him that it's all or nothing he either has us both or looses us both cos I'm not beign a part time mum and our daughter needs a full time dad.

He went to walk out of the room and I asked him how he felt right then - he replied like he wants to die

I left him to cool off and then went upstairs to see him. He was sat on the bed crying. He Said that he loves our daughter and doesn't want to be a part time dad but isn't sure that he loves me enough etc. He broke down and cried so hard he was howling and holding on to me - this is not like him he cries but only a little. This was a major breakdown kind of cry.

We have decided to see how things go for a couple of months and both make a real effort to make our marriage work He has said that he would rather fall back in love with me and make it work but at the moment isn't sure that this is possible.

I just feel so empty and don't know what to think. Part of me feels so sorry for him cos I love him and he is hurting and I want to make things better but can't) I have suggested that maybe he is depressed after the birth and the general situation and he said that he doesn't think so cos he just feels the same way as he has previously.

On the other hand I'm so angry with him for what he has said and that he is taking away this precious time with my new baby cos I can't enjoy her as much as I would cos I'm worried about the future and being on my own if he does leave us.

He finds talking difficult so I'm off to buy a couple of notepads for us both to write our feeligns in about the relationship and anything else over the coming months - I feel for me it will be cathartic and help when I really want to talk and he doesn't, for him I hope that writing down his feeligns and fears will help put them into perspective and help him to work through how he feels whatever the outcome may be.

I just feel sooo sad and can't stop thinking about what he has said and also part of me thinks that maybe we shoudl just call it a day and I can move on and find someone who does love me although not sure this would work as the person I want to love me doesn't Also I really don't want to be a single parent.

Skidoodle - still excl BF. I will allow him contact with her. Counsellor has suggested no contact with either of us for a few weeks as this will do DD no harm atm. TBH I don't feel comfortable with doing this. He has said in his email how much he has missed her already and although she is fine she does adore him.

How about "until he takes responsibility for his actions and takes steps to sort himself out I can't even consider any future for us. However I will be in touch soon to arrange when you will be seeing DD as I feel it is important that she has contact with you.

I can then get my head around how I am going to go about it before contacting again. A friend has offered to 'hand her over' to him (so I don't have to have contact)for a hour or so between feeds or just be around in the house when he comes over to see her- but none intrusive - so I can make myself scarce.

how about
"without taking responsibility for your actions and taking steps to sort yourself, we couldn't have a future. That is why i asked you to go".

You see this way, you are not explicitly saying you'd consider having him back but you are giving him a clear message about what he should have done and if he wants you back then he doesn't need to be a genius to work out what he needs to do if there is any chance.

If you don't say "I won't take you back" nor " I may take you back" then you are leaving the door open just a gap, and if he wants to come back really then he'll try to push at the gap to find out if the door will open.

MHIS your counsellor sounds bonkers.

I know very little about such matters and I actually think it's quite cool that she's not just sitting there listening and not saying anything useful, but she does seem to have some very strong opinions on your situation that seem, dare I say, a little unprofessional?

It's OK for us on MN, we're just random loonies on the interwebs

I think it's most odd for her to say that it wouldn't harm your DD not to see her Dad for a few weeks

Of course she adores him and of course he misses her.

Your friend's offer sounds perfect. Hopefully that will work out well.

I think your letter sounds good.

That's great that your still bfing. It's great isn't it? It's lovely to see that you're enjoying your DD despite all the things you're going through with DH. I remember in your very first posts you seemed most cross that he was spoiling your precious early days with her. So glad he didn't manage to do that.

sorry, second was meant to be

I'm always doing that

In my defence, :D are the normal keys for a grin, mutter, mutter...

DD is a dream and I adore BF almost as much as she does

Re my counsellor I have thought that sometimes she is a little bit opinionated. I feel sometimes she does get upset and angry on my behalf. Today she said that she was upset for me and wiped a tear away when I was telling her how I felt and what had happened - then the same thing happened to two friends I was telling so maybe just me!

Trust me to pick to loony counsellor.

Seriosuly tho she has given me some really good coping mechanisms which have worked.

She sounds kind of great. Just not like any counsellor I've ever heard of before.

I think you're right not to follow her advice re: DH and DD having no contact, for what it's worth.

She was recommended by a close friend who went through a similar experience and has come out the other side with a much better relationship.

Right, off to bed for me. DD not too well at the moment, so need my energy for making her some top-quality antibodies to get better

Take care, sleep well and I'm sure I'll catch up with developments soon. I'll be hoping they're positive ones.

You're doing great. On so many fronts.

Had a re-read of the letter. Kept it pretty much the same just a bit of juggling! and thinking of adding this paragraph between the feeling alone bit and the para on his meeding to sort himself out

"I agree that we both need some time and space to think about what has happened and what we want for the future, which is why I have asked you not to contact me"

Just thought it would serve to reiterate that there is to be no contact atm. But not sure if it is too 'soft' cos it implys I don't know what I want for the future...

Any suggestions?

"I agree that we both need some time and space to think about what has happened and what we want for the future, which is why I have asked you not to contact me"

Just thought it would serve to reiterate that there is to be no contact atm. But not sure if it is too 'soft' cos it implys I don't know what I want for the future...

It does need careful thought with some distane between you - in a couple of weeks you might feel completely defferent don't commit to anything other than time for now.

Nik76 - thanks for your comment but not sure if you are saying I should leave this in or not bother!! can you clarify

Sorry only scan read this - there are so many different types of counsellor and if yo feel comfortable with her stick with it as no-one is ever completely right in these situations.

Your h letter sounds so much like my h letter when he was away - very self pitying and wanting to see if you still have any sympathy for him - if you give it he 'feels' he still has you under his power and if you dont then that just 'proves' what an uncaring bitch you really are and he can go and pour his heart out to ow !!
Please do think very carefully exactly what you do write and remember if she is on the scence she may well read more into the words too.
Just please make sure he cannot find any fault in your behavior whilst still taking care of yourself. Be the best you can so neither he or she or in fact anyone else cannot find fault. But it is tricky because if you appear too strong he could say well you obviously dont love him if you can just move on so quickly .

wrt to contact if you find it difficult why not put together a diary for him so he can follow her progress on a daily basis - put lots of photos for him.
And if things dont work out he will always be able to look back and see that you were doing the right thing.

Do take care, i am thinking of you.

happywoman I'm so torn about what to say and not say in the letter.

My counsellor has said there is no chance of getting back together he is very unlikely to change and i should move on. but i do think that there is a glimmer of a chance and if i do want him back if he can change, then for now no contact and stick by it is over. he can not know that I may have him back at all.

My gut instinct is to say that at the moment this is the way i feel but to add that if there is to ever be any chance of me considering a reconcilliation he needs, have no contact even via work with ow, he needs to prove to me that he he does want me and will change and will respect that for now we can't live together and this may be for sometime.

However I don't feel my letter says that . I feel it says that I don't think we can get back together and I don't say at all that there is any chance.

I so don't want to mess this up any more than it is. LIke you say I don't want to send him running to her cos he thinks there is absolutely no chance with me but neither do I want to come across as a pushover.

So confused

In his email DH doesn't specifically say he wants me back or says that he loves but implies that he does (feels alone without me, says he's messed everything up, sorry for things he has said and done, wishes he could go back and change, hopes we can work something, anything out) ....or maybe that's what I want to read it as.

Should I at this stage ask in the letter what he wants - ie is he saying he wants to give us another go?

Or is this a bad idea? because I am then putting emphasis on what he wants rather than what is right for me.

But if he doesn't want me and all he is missing is DD and the life he had then that isn't enough for me and I don't want to be wasting any more time and energy on him

God I'm so scared of doing th ewrong thing and after all that has gone on I don't trust my own judgement to make the right decision atm

MHIS I just wanted to pop in and send you a hug. I think that if we had a bottle of wine and a few hours we could have a good old chat - my husband is very similar to yours from reading this thread, we too have been married for 10 years and have had dd 16 months ago.

At every stage of our relationship he has got cold feet, I too referred him to the doctor in case he was depressed, but no, he told the doctor he was just depressed because of me!!! And the children!!!! *they are are little and gorgoeus!! Our position now is that I feel like giving up. After 10 years of this I feel like my self esteem is destroyed and I couldn't live another day of this half-life. Maybe I will end up on my own, maybe I will find someone else, but I no longer want to be the cause of his angst...I can't believe all he has done to me over the years. Like, 10 years of rejection is alot to take.

The difficult thing is that he now wants to change and 'give it another go' (now he realises I really am fecking off) but my heart feels as hard as a stone, I can't give him any more of me.

Hope this doesn't count as hijacking your thread. Just wanted to send you a big squashy hug and say I think that we have both been really strong and incredible to go through all we have done, hold things together for so long, have the babies and cope on our own, breastfeeding and being loving caring mummies whilst our hearts are breaking and our lives are falling apart.

I wish you lots of love and luck xxxx

Oh and PS the not trusting your judgement thing is exactly where I am too atm. We are having a 'living together separation' but to take the final step and live apart...I am so confused. One of my long old friends told me this week that she had faith in me, that helped. Maybe someone could do that for you - you've just been through so incredibly much of course it is hard to think straight...but we'll get there.

KumQuatMaye - big hugs to you It's horrible isn't it. Throwing him out has been the bnest thing I have done tho. i really didn't feel like it at first and it is only now after all this time and hurt that I have felt strong enough to do it.

The daft thing is my biggest fear was always if I threw him out he would go running to her. But you know what he hasn't and he now is apologising and saying how daft he has been etc

Our situations are different in that my ex has not cheated (as far as I know...lol - what do we ever really know..he has always stayed away loads since we've been married in fact he is rarely at home, and when at home, drunk). So I feel you have had the most horrendous pain of all.

I am finding it really hard that mine is sorry at the moment. Somehow I just can't go there again - but it breaks my heart to think of the children not having him there every day. I guess I will just have to live with the guilt that I was the one who finally called it. But I know I just can;t go on and with all that has happened I feel like I have started to hate him.

How are you feeling now he is gone? I mean when the house is quiet and it's just you and dd is in bed?

Releived mostly but do waver at some point each day. When I do I ring a friend or go out etc.

I'm not minding being on my own in the evenings yet - I'm busy with LO til 9pm then watch TV, come on here etc. Keeping busy is the key and I know it will hit me hard at some point soon.

He has just phoned to ask to pick up his stuff now. I have said I'm going out - a truth. He asked where. said it didn't matter. Asked when I was due back - said after 5pm - truth!

He was very subdued.

He asked when he can pick his stuff up and I said I will txt or email him later.

Sounds like you are doing brilliantly. I know I don't know you but I think you are quite inspirational! You are being so strong!

Yeah with the lo's keeping busy is not a problem as such...I waver all the time so maybe that is normal. I waver from hour to hour, but the thing I keep coming back to is how repelled i feel by what he has done to me, and that even if I melt temporarily, he is not genuinely sorry and the situation would keep on repeating itself as it has done over the last 6/7 years or so. He is starting to look into places to rent so it seems final. We've both got solicitors appointments.

So I will disappear now and let u have your thhread back, but thank you for letting me pop in, as I say your strength has really inspired me. I hope that sooner rather than later you find true happiness with your little girl and whatever else life might bring you! (((((((((()))))))))))))))

Have read whole thread - just wanted to say i take my hat off to you, MHIS, you have been so dignified through what has basically been some mental torture...

I think you shouldn't read too much into him saying he's messed up, wishes he could go back and change, etc etc...I think he is just trying to make himself feel better by saying those things. If he really wanted to try again he would be saying "I want to try again".....basically.

And you definitely shouldn't worry about having said 'it's over'; I know it made you panic because in your heart of hearts it's not what you want BUT believe me, no man who really desperately wanted to try again on his marriage would hear that, then immediately 'give up' and be 'forced' to run to the OW. You can't make that happen by those words IMO. If he wants to try again he will listen then try to change your mind. If he wants to run to the OW he will run to the OW. He will do what he wants.

It was good you said it because it will make him confront how he really feels about it being over, which he so clearly needs to do.

Good luck.

Thanks HonoriaGlossop - I am tellingmyself that over and over because like you say if he wanted to try there would be nothing stopping him telling me that or indeed doing that.

Kumquatmaye - pop by any time - the best thing I have found is to talk things through over and over with different people on here and in RL. That way you don't make snap descisions and you feel more comfortable that the decision you have made is the right one for you.

Keep your chin up - sending you big hugs x

I have just emailed him and said he can pick up his stuff tomorrow morning at a specific time. I am going to leave it all in the garage with the door open so I don't have to have contact with him. He can just come , collect and go without coming into the house.

I'm off out again shortly - having a meal with a friend

Just got back in. Whilst I was out he txt me about 6.30pm to ask if I was in. I genuinely didn't notice the txt til 8pm. I ignored him as it was none of his business whether I was in or not and I have asked him not to contact me.

Then a neighbour txt to say that he had been to pick his car up and had asked her for the spare key to get into the house to get his belongings. She didn't have one and said so. He had a quick chat with her and asked if she had spoken to me she said that she had.

He txt again about 9pm asking what time I would be home. Again as this is none of his business and I have said no contact I ignored him.

Why can't he respect that I don't want any contact at the moment? I had emailed to say that he could have his stuff tomorrow morning. I don't think that was unreasonable. I had plans tonight and today which I wasn't prepared to break just so he could come over to pick up some stuff. He only asked to collect his things this afternoon.

I suspect that he is now getting a tad angry with me and the situation but I have been fair with him each step of the way so far so I feel that this is totally uncalled for.

Just goes to show that he is still putting himself first and what he wants and needs before what I need or his daughter come to think of it.

Nothing has changed

Everything has changed.

That's why he's so angry.

Skidoodle I know

He has lost the control and this is something he is finding difficult to handle.

In his email he has said that he really does want to talk. I'm so tempted to allow him to come round even though I know it is the wrong thing to do. I suppose I'm just tempted to hear what he has to say and hope it is something positive or I will find out more than I already know. I won't but i'm so tempted

I know deep down he will probably just lie to me and that speaking to him now is the worst thing I can do as I will be backing down on what I have said I want - space, time and no contact atm.

I've started to think that now he has his car whether he has gone to see the OW I know logically if he has done then the things he has said in the email mean nothing and therefore I have done the right thing. But emotionally if he has again chosen her over trying to make amends - even if its not making amends to have a relationship, just making amends becuase he appreciates he has done was really wrong - I will be crushed all over again.

I'm feeling stronger each day but I'm kind of anticipating a BIG comedown and that I will soon start to feel the devastation and hurt far more acutely than I am at the moment. Right now i'm feeling numb in a lot of respects