How am I going to get through this :( (long post sorry!)

[MyHeadIsSpinning]

I've been with DH for over 10yrs, married for 1 and have a new baby. LO was born prem and we have been going through hell but she is home now and doing well.

DH has always been indecisive and before each major milestone, getting engaged, a house, married etc he has had a panic and discussed splitting up as he doesn't think he loves me enough to get engaged, buy a house, get married etc.

However once we have talked things through and he has had his stress he always decides that he does love me and wants to be with me.

Surprisingly getting pregnant was one thing that he didn't stress about and was really happy that we were expecting. When I delilved LO early and it was touch and go for me and LO - apparently cos I was out of it but have been told by various people - DH was a bit of a mess which was understandable, ie couldn't speak for crying. However he won't talk about this and although has been supportive during the weeks LO was in hospital on SCBU I feel he could have been there for me more than he was.

Over the weekend things have come to a head. We've been having a few niggly arguements and he has said over the past few weeks that he isn't sure if he loves me enough (again) and has been thinking about us splitting up. Yesterday I made a real effort - did my hair and make up etc and tried hard to make an effort - we had agreed to do this the night before. However DH didn't notice the effort I had made and was sullen all day only speaking when I spoke to him etc. When I cracked and said that his behaviour was upsetting me and I was upset that he hadn't commented that I looked nice - he said that he hadn't noticed that I'd made an effort and didn't think I looked as though I had particularyly

We had a 'discussion' during which he told me that;

He feels it would have been easier if I had died when havign LO as this would have ade things easier for him ie wouldn't have to decided to stay with me or not - this really hurt and he knows how bad it sounded.

He doesn't feel that he loves me enough and wishes that he's 'had the balls to leave me before marrying an having a baby'

When I asked why he married me he said he thought it would be a solution to how he was feeling about being not sure about the relationship and everyone else seemed to think it was a good idea. He was NOT pressurised into marrying me or indeed even staying with me.

The arguement went on until I said that I wasn't prepared to share our baby and him be a weekend dad. That isn't why I brought her into the workd to be passed about between two homes etc. I told him that it's all or nothing he either has us both or looses us both cos I'm not beign a part time mum and our daughter needs a full time dad.

He went to walk out of the room and I asked him how he felt right then - he replied like he wants to die

I left him to cool off and then went upstairs to see him. He was sat on the bed crying. He Said that he loves our daughter and doesn't want to be a part time dad but isn't sure that he loves me enough etc. He broke down and cried so hard he was howling and holding on to me - this is not like him he cries but only a little. This was a major breakdown kind of cry.

We have decided to see how things go for a couple of months and both make a real effort to make our marriage work He has said that he would rather fall back in love with me and make it work but at the moment isn't sure that this is possible.

I just feel so empty and don't know what to think. Part of me feels so sorry for him cos I love him and he is hurting and I want to make things better but can't) I have suggested that maybe he is depressed after the birth and the general situation and he said that he doesn't think so cos he just feels the same way as he has previously.

On the other hand I'm so angry with him for what he has said and that he is taking away this precious time with my new baby cos I can't enjoy her as much as I would cos I'm worried about the future and being on my own if he does leave us.

He finds talking difficult so I'm off to buy a couple of notepads for us both to write our feeligns in about the relationship and anything else over the coming months - I feel for me it will be cathartic and help when I really want to talk and he doesn't, for him I hope that writing down his feeligns and fears will help put them into perspective and help him to work through how he feels whatever the outcome may be.

I just feel sooo sad and can't stop thinking about what he has said and also part of me thinks that maybe we shoudl just call it a day and I can move on and find someone who does love me although not sure this would work as the person I want to love me doesn't Also I really don't want to be a single parent.

You don't want to make him feel like he can't do anything without you checking up on him. The fact that he did it in front of you today suggests there was nothing there. I think leave it. I want to ask what HW thinks though, as she has been in your position.

agree with mad83 that the diconnectedness could easily be a symptom of depression. Men do get PND too - particularly with such a traumatic birth.

I hav only read the first 20 or so posts - but he sounds very much like my good friend's DH who suffers badly with depression.

Thing is th whenever I mention LO birth being anything to do with how he is feelign and /or what he has done he says that he was completely unaffected by what happened!

There was one occasion when he said that he started the emails to OW because it was like having a 'virtual life' because he wasn't happy with the way he felt towards me and whyat was happening with LO being in SCBU.

Just had a chat with my friend - the one we had dinner with on SZtaurday - and she said that on the whole DH seemed to be trying and was good with LO and affectionate towards me etc but that he seemed very childish in some respects and that this is obviously a problem because I then act like his mum.

She said that I speak for him or expland on what he says etc and I know I do this and don't let him be him in his own right in a lot of respects. I don't know why I do this - will discuss this with the counsellor this week!

Depression often makes us react differently to things. People often describe themselves as numb or unaffected by something that should have produced an emotional response.

Do you think it is normal for a man to be unaffected/feel nothing about his baby being very ill?

It's really not. People protect themselves from getting hurt by shutting down emotionally. He is showing so many classic symptoms. But if he won't even accept the possibility then I don't know what the solution is.

interesting about the 'mothering' him - i too think i did that for a long time. My h still is useless at making drs/dentists appointments - it is hard but i have learnt to just let him get on with it. Our gp is great too and have a policy that if an appt is not kept or one made they will not refer him for hosp appts in the futrue (not sure if this would ever happen but it scares h ) He has to have regular blood tests and so if he dosent make one the surgery will write to him now and it really does worry him. AS for the dentists well if he loses his teeth who would want him anyway .
It is a hard habit to break but do try and make him take responsibility for his behaviour. Try to treat him more like a partner or friend and see if that helps, and dont do things for him all the time from now on.

Depression is an issue too and is probably playing a part but until the person seeks help for themselves there is nothing you can do and acting like a mum and telling him is not going to help him. Let him see how bad he is and try and just support him.

Good luck.

I would have to say i know about the emails but that is because i could not be open with him if i am expecting him to be open with me. But be careful it is no good just asking and if he says he has been in contact doing nothing iyswim.

Right plan of action is to continue trying to;

Not mother him
Let him make his own decisions
Not ask loads of questions
Try to have fun with each other and rediscover what we had

But I will ask about the emails. I think I need to as otherwise it will eat away at me... Will se what mood he is in tonight and take it from there.

Happy woman are you saying that if I do ask him I need to be prepared to deal with what he tells me so if he has been emailing the OW I need to reiterate how unhappy that makes me and how it must stop? Kind of feel like idle threats cos I keep saying things and although on the whole he seems to be working with me and not contacting her things like him ringing her on Wed re not going out still seem to happen

I was talking to my RL friend this morning and she said that she feels that at the moment me DH is not the person I want him to be and questionned if I felt he ever will be - Kind of made me think that I have been kiddingmyself all these years that he will become someone else and I will be truely happy .

I feel so confused and don't know what to think at the moment. Part of me agrees with her and thinks we should call it a day but then when I look back to how happy we were in the run up to the wedding and whilst I was pregnant and I do believe that we really were happy and that this could just be a (really big) blip in our relationship.

I hate the way I feel at the moment and can't see the wood for the trees I really want things to be different but feel paralysed about how to go about it. I know I am doing the right thing by going to counselling and trying to change my behaviour etc but sometimes I wonder if we are meant to be should it be such bloody hard work?

I think if you have told him not to contact her or to let you know if he does then you need to be completly sure what the consequences are if he breaks that. It took a long time for my h to fully understand that - he honestly thought if i could handle the shagging what was the big deal with a conversation????. They really do need it spelled out and i am afraid you need to be prepared to carry out any threats.
I truely believe both me and my h know that if i find out about any contact that he has not been open about it will be the end - the first few weeks are the hardest - he did find it hard to tell me EVERY detail but as he did start to open up i did not 'have' to check up or ask. I do still check now and again and he knows i will for a while - but there have been a couple of times when he has forgotten for a few days to tell me - but now that is ok too.

If i find out there has been contact and he does not tell me it will mean the end - but then i am in a far better place to deal with it now and i truely believe that is not what he wants.

Do hope your h comes to his senses soon though - you are doing well.

The problem is if I tell him if he contacts her its the end then I'm not convinced he won't walk I feel like I am having to hang on to our relationship by a thread at the moment and it's such a precarious situation.

I suppose I'm being a coward and I understand that so long as I let him get away with it then will keep doing it Just that unless he wants to def be with me and is commited to me, then threats to leave or throw him out don't have as much weight as they would if he was truely sorry and wanted 100% to put the effort in and be with me.

The other thing is that if he has been contacting her he will probably lie about it so if I take what he says as the truth and it's not then he knows he can still lie and get away with it.

Arrghhh nothing seems to be the 'right answer' and I can' carry on feeling like this.

Part of me is wanting to call it a day and tell him to go because at the moment I really can't see how I can ever be truely happy with him again unless he makes some major changes. But then I think back to last year and how we both felt and it was just so right and the fact we now have a LO and I think I should hang in there. Just feels at the moment I'm hanging about waiting for his decision and I'm scared I could be doing that forever more

but that is just it - you are living scared that he is not with you for the 'right' reasons. You really do need to be prepared to go it alone and for him to know that too. It was the hardest thing i have ever done - but now at least i know he is back for me alone and not because i 'held onto' him for dear life. And believe me it feels a lot better to know that too. I have been where you are now (i put up with it for far too long but my excuse was i needed him to get another house for me to live in first). Once i was in a strong enough position to live and move alone he soon knew - yes he did go but only a few days later was back begging. I would only let him into my life once i knew for absolutly sure she was out of it. We were lucky in that not only was h signed off work sick but his firm let him take a huge chunk of time off - we had 5 months in total to sort things out. But him making it clear that i was more important than her and work were certainly the starting blocks we needed.

Good luck again

I don't know if I am prepared to go it alone. My head tells me it would be better for me to make the decision and take some control over it rather than wait for him to decide what he wants to do. However the thought alone makes me feel sick.

If I'm completely honest it's the thought that he will go to her that worries me the most. I am just about coping with the fact that he connfided inher etc and the thought of him leaving and setting up home with her makes me feel physically sick. Even if that's what it takes for him to see the error of his ways I don't think I can do it

She is on holiday soon....I'm thinking of maybe asking for a break then so I know he can't go to her but we could have some time out....is this me just fooling myself or do you think that this would be a good idea?

Also part of me thinks that this is the first time he has really tried to make an effort so I should be giving him a chance - more than just a weekend or a week..... but then if he has been emailing her then that isn't really an effort is it?......

You will feel sick - and you know logically that for you two to make it work he needs to feel as repelled by the idea of that too.

My h says now he actually hates the ow - but it is because he now sees the affair for what it really was - a bit of fun that could have hurt so many people. The ow was selfish for her part in actually wnating and encouraging that.

Until you h sees how destructive she is in your lives i fear you will feel like you do.
You are not a fool for still wanting him either so please dont think like that.

But by setting boundaries you will take some control back - but do it in your own time - there will come a time when you will be alble to be do what it takes and you will look back on this time and wonder what on earth you were thinking.

Be true to yourself - try to do what you want now - try and enjoy each day too find something in it just for you if you can.

WE are here for you - stay strong.

Exactly what HW said

This is the bad bit, you are feeling vulnerable and he is feeling unsure. You will feel stronger, you will be happy again (with or without him).

Be as positive as you can; but when you feel low, or sad, or insecure, we are here.

A break would be a good thing IMO, but first you must feel secure enough in yourself. The OW has a boyfriend now, doesn't she?

I do think a week out in the real world without you, would cure his belief that the grass is greener. But if that is to happen you must be in a frame of mind to cope with any outcome.

How old is your dd now? Is she utterly adorable? (I have two boys, very lovely, but would love a girl too!) She was so good on Saturday, you must be so proud of her - and her of you too.

And remeber it is ok to feel unsure if you can go it alone - but there will come a day when you will know you can - that is one of the positives to have come from my situation, i am so much stronger than i ever thought i was.

But please dont feel bad about the way you feel - none of us are ever prepared for this and there are no set rules as to how we should feel.

Thank you both. He has been affectionate since coming home and is doing things around the house. I asked if he felt this weekend was better than previous ones and he agreed that it was.

I asked about the email and he denied deleteing the history - was very convincing. But it was there then deleted.

He showed me his email freely without asking to try to prove to me

Feeling better now he is home and we have had a little chat - which didn't turn into a barrage of questions or a row and ended with him giving me a kiss and a hug. he also said that he wanted to prove he hasn't hidden anything from me because he knows especially now how important that is to me - maybe a glimmer of hope that he is starting to see things from my perspective!

YKNOTC - DD is 6mths old and is utterly adorable! hard work cos excl breastfed but soooooo worth it! Sure your DS's are equally adorable and with a mum like you will be very well balanced!

We have a holiday booked for mid july and I'm hoping that this will do us good to reconnect.

Thanks for all your support xx the pair of you are really keeping me going at the moment

How are you?

I'm okay I think.

Had a counselling session on my own today the first since I found out he had been having an emotional affair.

Counsellor said that she thinks that my DH has very deep anger issues towards his parents which he is transfering onto me.

She obviously can't suggest what I should or shouldn't do but she said that she feels I will not get what I want or need from my DH - ie love and support - unless he learns to fend for himself. She thinks time apart would be a good thing.

I explained to her that I can't contemplate this at the moment. I'm too scared that he will go to the OW - She said that she understood this and we agreed that I will not ask him to leave but will no longer tolerate his bad behaviour towards me. She said that he continues to behave badly because I allow it - and I do I know that.

We agreed on a half way measure until he changes or I feel strong enough to ask him for a trial seperation.

She has said that I should tell him if he does anything bad towards me that I am not sure if he is the one for me and I don't know if I am able to continue living with such behaviour. Then walk away from the conversation.

Tonight he has come home from work on time. He has bathed LO and made dinner. LO is now in bed - just started getting into a routine finally! and I was hoping for some time together but because it is a nice evening he has gone out to run his new bike tyres in He mentioned wanting to go out and I said I would like to spend some time together.

He kissed me as he went out - only for 30-45 min apparently - and I repeated that I was hoping that we could spend some time together whilst LO is asleep and were not too tired.

He replied he knew but still went out.

He is like a child - something my counsellor and I discussed at length today -and becaus ehe has come home on time, batherd Lo, made diner etc he feels he should have a reward like a kid wanting sweeties for being good.

I didn't try to stop him going because I don't want to keep treating him like a child but I'm hurt and angry that he has gone leaving me to stay in with LO. He didn't ask if I minded and actively chose to go even though he knew I was upset about it.

I really don't know how to handle him at the moment. If I ask him not to do things he either does it anyway or we have a row and he does it or he doesn't but resents me for it.

I felt that he was turning a corner about respecting my feelings, he has come home and asked how the session went today etc and been generally affectionate and talkative, but now I'm not to sure. I got the feeling when he went out that he didn't want to rock the boat but really wanted to go for a ride and like a child he can't empathise with my feelings so does the 'easy option' and that's doing what he wants.

How do you think I shold be when he comes home? I am planning on reiterating that I felyt hurt that he chose to go out when he knew I was hoping to spend some time together and that when he behaves slefishly like this I question if I am doing the right thing by attempting to save our marriage. And leave it at that.

Or should I just leave it - I have said my piece already (but not mentioned not sure if I want to be with him).

Oh I have also decided with my counsellor that for the moment I need to go to sessions on my own because I get more support and it's better for me. The counsellor feels that DH needs to carry on too on his own. I explained this to him this evening nad said that if he wants to continue on his own for now then to contqact the counsellor and arrange this.

He hasn't said he won't go back and understands that he needs to inorder to work though his issues but said that at the moment he feels 'talked out' and would like some time out from the sessions.

I'm happy for this so long as time out doesn't turn into him never going back and sorting things out in his own head.

He is such a pillock! Sorry, but he is.

I wish I could lend you the strength to give him an ultimatum, but I can't.

Bang his head against the wall for a bit.

Got to go back to work now, will check later.
x

So sorry it has come to this - it sounds as if he is not ready to let her go completly yet (go with your gut feel wrt to the emails - he was hardly going to admit to it if he thinks he can get away with less). Read Stirlingmums post today - she is further down the line than you but she had these same niggles - men just cant seem to take responsiblity for their actions.

Carry on with the counselling and try not to worry what he is up to (so much easier to say than actually do). If he has issues then he needs to realise that for himself first.

He is being a pratt but he wont realise that while he can just carry on as he pleases.

You are between a rock and a hard place and he is acting like a child and being selfish, yes he is justifying it to himself in that he feels he is doing all he can to make a go of it and if you dont 'pull the line' then he can blame you for when it all goes wrong.

Relationships really do take 2 people to make it work and it seems as if he is doing the minimum to make it appear he is doing all he can when in fact he should now be doing anything and everything it takes to 'win' you back.

I honestly believe i could phone my h now and say i needed him here home now and he would do everything in his power to do that.
It is a trust issue - he trusts me that i wouldnt ask unless it was an emergency and i in turn trust that he truely wants to do everything to make us work.

Time will tell though and in the meantime - work on you and what you now want - is there some hobby or thing you would love to do. Be a bit selfish now and take some time for you.
I would also advice getting armed with the legal advice as to what you will get out of the marriage if it does not work out. This is not harsh - just insurance.
I know i would never put myself in the position i was in before. I will now keep copies of pensions, savings ect. This is good practice too anyway.
Knowing that i would not be penniless and homeless was a huge help in knowing that if i wanted i could cope alone anyway.

Good luck - you are in an awful position at the moment - so be kind to yourself and remember it can only get better.

Thanks so much for your posts. I am trying hard to do things for myself and LO.

I can't bear the way I feel at the moment so I just try and get out and about as much as possible during the day with LO.

It's difficult atm for me to do much away from LO because she is excl breastfed on demand and although she will sometimes go upto 4hrs often feeds 1-2 hourly.

This doesn't bother me I enjoy the closeness and the bond we have but it does mean I am limited in getting time alone

We have a hol booked in a couple of weeks and the week before OW is on hols so hopefully some time away from her and time together as a family will help...just scared it will have the opposite effect and it will all be too much.

I so wish it could all just be sorted out

Maybe suggest he does not have his phone or internet access whilst on holiday.
One of the good things we have discovered from all this is that h now seperates his family and work life as much as possible.

He now refuses to have his phone on 24/7 - and it certainly hasnt stopped him getting on - in fact he gets very cross with members of his team who do have their phones/blackberrys/laptops on all the time.

I think you are looking for that one action that will reassure you that he is serious about working on the marriage.

Happywoman - It's usually me who wants access to internet on holiday - no ulterior motive just usually check in with work and everyday life . His phone is always on view to me on holiday.

Will therefore be interesting if he suddenly wants to email or hides his phone!

When we have a 'good' day I;m really optimistic but then we have a bad day and I read into everything and get myself in a mess about it all

Its me too that now likes the internet access .

It will be interesting about the phone too - although i never did see when h was doing it when we went away (probably from the loo - lovely).

I really do not envey what you are going through it really is horrid.

Remember you have done all you can and should be proud of yourself. Stay on that moral high-ground too i am sure it is much more comfortable.

hmm will look out for him taking his phone to the loo! Although he now shows me his phone bills so difficult to hide anyway....although sure he would find a way!