How am I going to get through this :( (long post sorry!)

[MyHeadIsSpinning]

I've been with DH for over 10yrs, married for 1 and have a new baby. LO was born prem and we have been going through hell but she is home now and doing well.

DH has always been indecisive and before each major milestone, getting engaged, a house, married etc he has had a panic and discussed splitting up as he doesn't think he loves me enough to get engaged, buy a house, get married etc.

However once we have talked things through and he has had his stress he always decides that he does love me and wants to be with me.

Surprisingly getting pregnant was one thing that he didn't stress about and was really happy that we were expecting. When I delilved LO early and it was touch and go for me and LO - apparently cos I was out of it but have been told by various people - DH was a bit of a mess which was understandable, ie couldn't speak for crying. However he won't talk about this and although has been supportive during the weeks LO was in hospital on SCBU I feel he could have been there for me more than he was.

Over the weekend things have come to a head. We've been having a few niggly arguements and he has said over the past few weeks that he isn't sure if he loves me enough (again) and has been thinking about us splitting up. Yesterday I made a real effort - did my hair and make up etc and tried hard to make an effort - we had agreed to do this the night before. However DH didn't notice the effort I had made and was sullen all day only speaking when I spoke to him etc. When I cracked and said that his behaviour was upsetting me and I was upset that he hadn't commented that I looked nice - he said that he hadn't noticed that I'd made an effort and didn't think I looked as though I had particularyly

We had a 'discussion' during which he told me that;

He feels it would have been easier if I had died when havign LO as this would have ade things easier for him ie wouldn't have to decided to stay with me or not - this really hurt and he knows how bad it sounded.

He doesn't feel that he loves me enough and wishes that he's 'had the balls to leave me before marrying an having a baby'

When I asked why he married me he said he thought it would be a solution to how he was feeling about being not sure about the relationship and everyone else seemed to think it was a good idea. He was NOT pressurised into marrying me or indeed even staying with me.

The arguement went on until I said that I wasn't prepared to share our baby and him be a weekend dad. That isn't why I brought her into the workd to be passed about between two homes etc. I told him that it's all or nothing he either has us both or looses us both cos I'm not beign a part time mum and our daughter needs a full time dad.

He went to walk out of the room and I asked him how he felt right then - he replied like he wants to die

I left him to cool off and then went upstairs to see him. He was sat on the bed crying. He Said that he loves our daughter and doesn't want to be a part time dad but isn't sure that he loves me enough etc. He broke down and cried so hard he was howling and holding on to me - this is not like him he cries but only a little. This was a major breakdown kind of cry.

We have decided to see how things go for a couple of months and both make a real effort to make our marriage work He has said that he would rather fall back in love with me and make it work but at the moment isn't sure that this is possible.

I just feel so empty and don't know what to think. Part of me feels so sorry for him cos I love him and he is hurting and I want to make things better but can't) I have suggested that maybe he is depressed after the birth and the general situation and he said that he doesn't think so cos he just feels the same way as he has previously.

On the other hand I'm so angry with him for what he has said and that he is taking away this precious time with my new baby cos I can't enjoy her as much as I would cos I'm worried about the future and being on my own if he does leave us.

He finds talking difficult so I'm off to buy a couple of notepads for us both to write our feeligns in about the relationship and anything else over the coming months - I feel for me it will be cathartic and help when I really want to talk and he doesn't, for him I hope that writing down his feeligns and fears will help put them into perspective and help him to work through how he feels whatever the outcome may be.

I just feel sooo sad and can't stop thinking about what he has said and also part of me thinks that maybe we shoudl just call it a day and I can move on and find someone who does love me although not sure this would work as the person I want to love me doesn't Also I really don't want to be a single parent.

YKNOTC - sorry didn't manage to get back on last night.

Things went downhill. He rang work to say that he wouldn't be going out but of all the people in the office he rang the OW. He said that this was partly cos he knows her number and cos she knows why he wouldn't be going out. But admited that it was also a dig at me cos I wouldn't agree to him going out. He told her to tell everyone else that I was ill - rather than just stating the fact that I was poorly and he was staying to look after me - whichis obviously what I would have preferred him to say. The way he spoke to her on the phone- was quite chatty - hurt.

It felt so hurtful and has set me back.

We talked all night which was probably not the best thing to do. As for much of the time we go round in the usual circles.

In the conversation he said that he would rather stay than go and would rather be with me and be a full time daddy to our LO BUT he also admited that he thinks he may love the OW but isn't sure if what he feels is love or just thinking that what she represents - ie an escape from us - is what he wants. He said that his head is just messed up and he is confused about everything, whathe wants and how he feels. He got upset and cried.

However although he would rather stay than go he isn't sure he can put the effort in to make it work cos he isn't sure what he ultimately wants.

Last night he was very angry with himself for what he has done which meant he couldn't go out with work and with me for not letting him go. This obviously didn't bode well for a good discussion.

I was so hurt last night that I actually asked him to leave. I just felt that I couldn't take anymore of the hurt and I suppose wanted him to back down and profess undying love for me and beg me not to end it - pah - obviously that wasn't going to happen.

He didn't want to go and in the end I got upset and said that I don't want him to go I want to make it work but I can't stand the way things are at the moment so if things don't change drastically NOW then he will have to go because there is no alternative.

We went to bed and he was upset - both were crying.

I spent the whole night tossing and turning and hardly slept at all thinking about things.

This morning we had another chat and he told me that the OW has a new boyf and when I asked if he was jealous he said a little because he still likes her.

I asked him to choose - stay or go, me or her and he chose to stay with me. I told him that I need far more reassurance and this has to be the last chance. He said that he is sorry for what he has done and what he is continuing to put me through. He said that it is all his fault and that he is sorry.

The problem is he knows he has to put a massive effort in now and this scares and overwhelms him. I'm just scared that he is going to fall at the first hurdle and we are not goign to recover from this.

I know where you are at - please dont blame yourself or let him put any of the blame on you.

You want to 'push' him away so that when he does go you will be 'right' he didnt love you enough....

It is hard but please try not to worry too much about whether he is going to stay or not, just try and enjoy it for now. This is probably the hardest bit for you.
If it is going to work out there will be so much time in the future to 'talk' it all out, try not to go too fast at the moment.

Why not set yourself little goals each day that will make you feel better about yourself and your relationship.
If he throws it back in your face at least you will know that you did all you could.

I think you were right to say you didnt want him to go out - but he is not liking the punishment - until he realises this is just a phase he will not be happy.
He is thinking 'what more can i do' he is probably carrying an awful lot of guilt too and it really hurts when you understandably want to punish him some more.

Try and be kind to him for a while too - this is not weakness on your part, it is you being the person you know you really want to be anyway (well i hope it is anyway ).

It is a long hard journey that you are on so do take care of yourself.

Happywoman - thanks for your comments. I just feel so hurt and I do want to be kind to him and understand he is confused but so hard when I get so little back.

Did you go through this same phase with your DH?

Re the guilt you are right. Yesterday at the session I commented that I didn't feel that he was sorry and the counsellor agreed that it didn't seem like he was.

At one point last night we tried to make love and - I knoe probably the wrong thing to do - I wanted to hear him say he was sorry. He did say it and I asked him to say what he was sorry for because I needed to hear it - he couldn't - I said was it because it made him feel bad and guilty and he said yes.

This morning he said that although the counselllor has said it is something we both need to work on and something we both need to change our behaviour on he disagrees. He doesn't blame me for any of his actions or feelings.

I have asked him to come home on time tonight but he asked me not to ask this. He said if he comes home on time it has to be because he wants to not because I am requesting it. He commented that I act like his mum and compared my requests with his mum insisting he be home at a cretain time wgen he was a teenager.

I suppose I just have to try to get on with my life as much as possible and see if he comes back to me. So hard when I feel I have no control over the situation and when I have the threat of the OW looming over me.

Yes i did go through all that.
Do you think you do treat him like a child sometimes. That is something i think i did.

I dont know why he would not want you to say come home on time. Maybe just see if he does - if he does say 'thankyou, you know it means a lot to me at the moment' and if he does not say something like 'I am sad that you do not understand that at the moment i need a bit more reasurrace from you'
Try not to put the responsiblility of your happiness onto him. If he feels he 'has' to come home to make you happy he may resent that, he wants to want to come home iykwim.

Rather than trying to 'fix' the relationship (and i think we fell into that trap), try to accept how you both are feeling and not put more 'emphisis' on yours at the moment. Yes your feelings do matter but if he feels he needs to do the right thing and if he gets it wrong will be punished for it he will withdraw.

That all sounds a bit jumbled. sorry hope you understand what i mean anyway.

Is he able to talk to anyone else about this - a friend or relative - who will not judge him? This helped my h a lot. There was a couple going through the same thing as us in the street (unfortunately they have split up) but my h was able to talk to her about it and it really helped as she could put my point of view without pressure, and it ending in a row. It helped him sort out his feelings.

I would also urge you to make him get another job - After all that is all it is a job and if his family is more important then he will do it.
My h was able to take a long period off work and this was fantastic - we both had the chance to get to know each other again without the pressures of everyday life. If you are not comfortable with him working with her then please say it and deal with it - it will only come up again and again.

Cat me if you want to

Yes I do treat him like a child - I am quite controlling in a lot of respects

But equally he has acted like a child. Supppose on that score we are much to blame as each other.

I think that this is why he is now struggling to make decisions and put the effort in because it's not something I can help with as it has to com from him. I think he is terrified of the responsibility.

He has emailed me this morning from work to say that he is upset and feels like crying I asked why and he said everything, being nasty to me, thought of splitting up etc. So he is feeling remorseful it's just getting him to move on from that positively.

I have asked him to talk to his cousin who went through a similar situation but he won't. Think I will suggest it again.

He is a big eejut!

Right, first of all let's tackle his "I don't want to make a big effort because I'm not sure that whether or not I want to save the relationship". This can be really easily rationalised. He has 2 options, to make and effort or not to make an effort.

Scenario 1: He makes no effort, loses you, realises he loves you, but it's too late = sad DH

Scenario 2: He makes no effort, loses you, realises it was for the best = DH fine.

Scenario 3: He makes an effort, saves the marriage, realises he truly loves only you = very happy DH

Scenario 4: He makes an effort, sadly realises it was not meant to be, but knows that he did everything he could to save the relationship and have an amicable split = DH ok.

Right. The only scenario where DH is left distraught is scenario 1. Even if he makes an effort and it doesn't work out, at least he knows he did all he could. For me, logically, making the effort is the most sensible thing to do. It's the only way he can't lose out.

Secondly, you need to break down this huge and insurmountable effort of making it up to you, into smaller chunks. Tell him you want him to do small nice things daily. That's how to go about it.

I'm really disappointed that he called OW. That was unbelievably stupid of him.

I'm not overly impressed by your counsellor either - she/he seems very one sided, and although it is really obvious that he is the one in the wrong here, she/he should be remaining impartial and helping both of you. I may have got the wrong end of the stick here. But maybe you could change counsellors?

DH has definitely got "grass is greener" syndrome! All he can see is how simple life would be outside his family. Forgetting all the positives of being in it.

It's good that he told you none of this is your fault. But I'm worried by how much he has distanced himself from you as a family.

HappyWoman has given some really good advice.

Could you put aside an evening just for you both, with a promise of nothing being mentioned about OW/nights out/lateness or anything else. Make a nice meal, watch a DVD together, or whatever you both like doing. Just relax in each other's company for a while?

Thanks YKNOTC - quick reply cos on my way out. But thanks for your support - think I will suggest your options to DH to make things a little clearer. I have suggested that he email me how he feels and we keep to emails rather than talking and goign round in circles. This way he can have time to organise his thoughts and he seems better at doing this. He has said he will think about it.

Sounds like a good plan.

Going round in circles is no good, you both stop listening in the end.
x

And i know you are desperate for him to make that effort and hopefully come to his senses and choose you. But keep talking and making him talk is not going to make it happen.

Please please - try and leave it alone for a while - and believe me i do know how hard that is to do.

Asking for proof that he wants to be with you will is just not working.

Anyway good luck and stay strong.

Thanks Happywoman - I'm exhausted with talking so would be more than happy to not discuss it at the moment.

Just that I get scared that he is thinkiing things through in his head and will come out with a solution which involves leaving me and our LO

I'm going to make a huge effort to not talk about things/ push him as much because as I have said we are just going round in circles and it's not achieving anything other than making him overanalyse the situation and making him feel more and more distant with me.

I have decided that when he comes home tonight I am going tell him that although I am extremely hurt at the moment I want to try and make things work and that the only way I can deal with this is taking things very slowly day by day. I am going to tell him that he needs to make the effort too and although at the moment it may seem impossible if he can think in terms of today only and not look forward even so much as tomorrow maybe we can start to slowly move forward.

Any questions I have I'm going to continue writing them down. I'm finding that this helps in that once I write it down I let go - I'm not thinking about it ready to question him as soon as he walks through the door each night. I was starting to worry that I would forget the thought I had unless I asked it straight away and I would potentially miss out on a piece of information because I hadn't asked the question. Now I know that if I choose to ask the question I can do but equally within a day or so it diminshes in importance. Does that make sense?

Just hope that he is going to put the effort in - I know I can't force him - and don't want to.

Happywoman - do you have any suggestions for getting through this and keep ing my cool? Is it possible?

writing it down is a brilliant idea - it helps when you need to sort out your mind - i still do it but not as much as i used to. Any questions you could write down too so you will not forget them.

I know that the worrying what he is thinking is so very hard to stop - but you know logically you can not make him choose you.

Just to get through it - have you got some nice things planned for you to do. Maybe even just book some thigns and if he wants to join you thats great if not you will have a nice time.

Think of somethign that gives you pleasure and try and aim to do more of it. I used to like to read the paper everyday, just to feel i was keeping up with the world.

Also remember she hasnt got him really has she - they cannot be open with people can they - what kind of relationship is that anyway?

Good luck

Thanks (again) happywoman

I have been keeping a diary loosly just to see how ar I am getting in the whole process It does help me to get my thoughts in order.

We have a night out plannned this wkend - we are going to my friends house ( she knows what is going on with our relationship and is trying to support us) DH knows that she is aware of everything and is nervous about going ( not that my friend would ever say anything to him - although atm she would happily throttle him on my behalf)but nonetheless is happy to go - he seems happy to spend time with me in the company of others just being on our own that's the issue - because he's scared of me questionning all the time

Hopefully going out together will be a start to him realising that I am more than just a mummy - I can be an attractive wife who he want to be with

Despite what he is saying about OW - ie he thinks he may love her etc. He did say this morning that he realises any relationship however hypothetical with her might not work anyway. So at least he is being realistic about things.

Right [deep breath emoticon]I promise myself that I will not question, I will not shout, I will not obsess about the future and what it may or may not hold and I will back off and give him space to realise that I am a damn good catch and he does want to be wih me and if he can't see that more fool him [false bravado emoticon ]

so long as I can continue spilling my heart and head on MN of course

Well so far he hasn't left work to come home - making him an hour late finishing already

Doesn't bode well does it. And he know I am poorly and LO seems to be coming down with the same

DH finally came in at 7.50pm Know he was at work because rang him there. Don't think OW was with him thinkhe was just avoiding coming home.

He apologised for being late - gave me a hug and a kiss. I calmly pointed out that I was hurt that after I had asked him to come home on time he was so late. He said that he was sorry - was finishing a job and had lost track of time.

I left it at that and we had a fairly 'normal' evening. Towards the end of the night before we went to bed he became very affectionate and we made love.

I tried really hard not to ask questions.

He commented that it isn't long til we go on holiday - the night before he didn't want to go. It's so hard with him changing his mind all the time but I am trying hard to just take it one day at a time. he has agreed to do this too.

You're doing really well. I really hope the meal goes well this weekend.

Well done you for not asking questions - keep writing them down, and one day you'll find you've run out of things to ask.

Ignore him when he starts being all negative about stuff - I suppose in some ways it's the same as your questions: You ask things when you feel insecure and low, and he goes into doom and despair mode when he feels low.

I hope he gets home earlier tonight, that was inconsiderate of him.

My God woman! You are a good catch! Any man would be proud to have such a lovely lass on their arm! And don't you forget it!

I'm away this weekend so I look forward to catching up with new of your evening out, on Monday. Keep calm, allow yourself (and DH) to have some fun. Don't push it if he is reluctant to do things, but do ask him to suggest something instead - perhaps even schedule in some alone time for him.

Will write more on Monday x

Thanks YKNOTC - I'm keepingmy fingers and toes crossed he plays ball tonight and this weekend.

He was affectionate this morning before work so I'm hoping he will come hom earlier and we can have a nice evening tonight . But not putting pressure on him or myself as when I do this end up feeling let down.

Hope you have a good weekend and fingers crossed on Monday I'll have positive comments on here! x

Update

I managed to ask no questions at all on Fri night - I always ask if she was around in the work kitchen when he had lunch and if they were alone at work at all - 9 times out of 10 the answer is no so I took a deep breath and kept my mouth shut.

DH was responsive and seemed more relaxed.

Yesterday we got up early and made love (initiated by DH) before LO woke then I pottered about the house while he nipped out then we went out later together to his parents before going to my friend's for tea with her and her DH (LO came and was really good!)

DH was talkative, and affectionate towards me all night - Not over the top but stroking my back while we were all sat talking and looked after LO equally.

My friend commented that he was 'doing really well' We stayed til gone midnight.

I commented that I had had a relaly nice night and he agreed - over the top but seemed to have had a nice time.

This morning he was affectionate again and wanted to make love - I wasn't in the mood so let him down gently. Since then things have been okay but he hasn't been as attentive. He has done some jobs in the house which I have been asking him to do for a while....and now is doing his own thing -with my blessing! - in the garage.

I know it's not going to be an easy ride and I feel that he has made far more of an effort since Thursday as have I re asking questions etc. But it still feels like we are walking on eggshells. Loads of silly things make me think of what we are going through or what has happened and it all feels so raw again....

I'm going to keep at it tho. Just feel as though at any moment he is going to give up on us and say that's it I'm off

I need more certainty and I know atm I can't have that cos of the place we are at.

Happywoman/YKNOTC - anyone.....is this normal?

just to add yesterday I know he checked his emails but he deleted the history off the computer to make it look as tho he hadn't.....I've not said anything but I'm now worrying why he deleted it.

I'm trying so hard to trust and not ask questions but things like this set me back. Do you think I should let it go or ask him about it? TBH he will probably deny it so probably no point but I can't live like this

This tied in with him being less attentive yesterday has made me think he has been emailing the OW

Firsly - yes it is normal. The eggshells is the worst part.

Accept that you do not trust him yet - you are not superwoman after all.

I would also not completly accecpt that she is off the scene yet. Sorry but this is so typical exactly what my h did.
I once found her number on his phone under another number - went mad and he just got so angry 'saying what more could he do blah blah blah....'
He needs to know you do not trust him and if says 'you have to if this is going to work' be very careful as i bet she is still about.

You do not need to trust him yet - he needs to earn it back. My h is so much more open now there is nothing to hide anyway. him deleting the emails i am afraid is proof that he is hiding something - even if it is only the fact that he has an urge to check his emails. Why is that a secret - he needs to be more open.

Sorry you are still going through this - is there anyway you can insist that he gets another job - surely he can see that you will always be unhappy with them working together. I have been there too and my h has just got another job - but it has taken a long time. I bet he is able to persuade you that it is the best thing (who for him or you?). If it is something that you feel is not acceptable then you need to tell him that. If he really wants you then he will agree to it. If he will not then i think you need to fear the worse.

Remember this is nothing you have done - he needs to make amends and if what he is doing is not enough that is his problem not yours dont make him think you are being unreasonable - it is normal after all.

Good luck and if you need to chat you can cat me.

My first reaction is "DON'T READ TOO MUCH INTO EVERYTHING!"

It sounds like he made a real effort on Saturday and put you first (which is great). It may well have come across as artificial, because he was consciously, rather than naturally, doing it. He may have4 felt a little rejected Sunday morning which led to less affection (men can be so shallow).

It all sounds normal, let yourself enjoy nice times without reading things into them.

You've done so well not questioning him! You should be so pround of the effort you have put in - it is not easy to change behaviours, particularly those fuelled by jealousy and mistrust.

As for the e-mails, it could all be completely innocent (I obviously don't know either way as I am not your DH). DH knows you are suffering from being unable to trust him, and perhaps he didn't want to feed that by you knowing he had checked his e-mails.

He has tried this weekend. You have spent time together as a couple, laughing, chatting, joking. That's all good news. Try to focus on the positive.

Would it be possible for DH to look for work somewhere else? It would be the big gesture you need from him, but not something he should be forced into against his will (or this is just going to add to the list of "punishments" he thinks he's receiving).

Hope you're ok today.

Yes i agree asking him to look for another job may seem like a punishment - but the alternative is really awful.

I never asked my h to leave work - at one point he said he would if i asked him to but i think he could have then said it was another thing i 'demanded'. Actually we spoke a lot about it and i said i would not ask him to but he needed to understand how difficult i would find it and i needed to know about all contact - he agreed and it worked for a bit. Actually she found it harder and so the 'backstabbing' at work began. It was at this point that he actually realised that he could not be the best at work if there was someone who would not support him (her). Also now with a new job i feel better able to support him at work too and it feels so right.
Dont be afraid to voice the fact that you would rather he looked for other work but dont demand it.

Agree completely with HW

Has he tried to put himself in your shoes? If you had an affair with a co-worker, told him you loved him, shared all your secrets with him, told DH you thought it best you left him, and then changed your mind and decided to stay in that job... Would he feel threatened by your continued contact? Would he be happy for you to go to social occasions with this man? Would he worry about what was happening where he couldn't see it? Yes, I think anyone would.

The problem here is that he must not feel like he was forced to leave his job. Has he offered to at all? Is there comparable work available where you live?

Part of the problem is that he is so amicable with her!

It is perfectly fair that you should know about all contact with her. The problem is that he is not volunteering this information, so you have to ask, and he feels pestered. Argh!

He needs to realise that the more he offers (information/affection/support), the less you will ask for.

But as HW said, do not make demands - he'll just shut down and feel punished.

Yes the more he tells you the less you will want to ask and the cycle is broken.

Does your counsellor ask what you want to dicuss? if so is this something you could get him to talk about and make he see you are not being unreasonable for feeling the way you do.

Do keep hope though that he is sticking with you - and also remember that it may be you that is not as happy as you thought you would be. You are allowed to change your mind at anytime too.

Good luck

Thanks you both so much for your continued support and words of wisdom.

Changing jobs isn't really an option - although DH is brilliant at his job he has never been great at interviews and got this job because no interview was involved!

He has worked hard to get the benefits etc that he has only recently been given and he would happily stay in this job til he retires. The OW on the other hand is using this as a stop gap and plans to move on - she is isn't overly happy with her job/workplace - suppose I am hoping that she will decide to move on which is her plan and she did discuss this with DH during the affair - this would be the ideal situation.

However I'm not sure how deeply she feels for DH and whether she is likely to stay out of spite to me/in an attempt to 'win' DH back.

DH seems unable to put himself in my shoes because of the ambivalent way he feels towards me at the moment

Re emails do you think I should ask him why he deleted the history to make it look as though no emails checked? I know he will be defensive but is it better for him to know that I realised he deleted the history?

He did openly check his email infront of me today- I asked him to check something

MYHEADIsSPINNING: This is so hard for you I am going through a similar sort of thing but after 25 years, I think I am doing not too bad then start crying again. Hope things work out for you, he really does sound depressed I think my Hubby is depressed although I think they are in denial!?