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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

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Original poster

I hit him first?

144 replies

UnhappySim · 16/03/2008 11:07

I have been married for two years.

Last night me and DH were arguing, he was stood up and I was sitting on the bed.

All of a sudden he lost his temper and dived on me, pinning me to the bed and shouting in my face.

As soon as this happened I went into 'defence mode' and kicked him in the groin, as he loosened his grip on me I then punched him in the face. (It didn't seen like he felt that very much though).

I then got up from the bed and ran downstairs. I was upset by what I'd done as I 'didn't mean to'. I know how stupid that sounds, you don't kick someone by accident but I've been doing jujitsu for the past 3 years and escaping from ground pins are something we practice every now and again. I didn't think about it, I just went into defence mode and acted instictively. It's not as if I thought to myself "I know, I'll do that thing on him that we practice at jujitsu..." I honestly didnt think at all.

Anyway, a few minutes later I heard his heavy footsteps come charging down the stairs, the urgency in his step made me brace myself again and then the door burst open, he grabbed me by the throat and then slammed me against the wall. Obviously learning his lesson from last time he pushed up close against me so I couldn't do anything to him and he said "If you ever do anything like that to me again, I'll beat you black and blue". He then left the house.

My mind is all over the place, I know I hit him first but in a way it was kind of self defense but he never actually hit me at all...therefore I was the violent one? Therefore did he have the right to threaten me in temper?

He's NEVER been violent before, I always said if a man was ever violent towards me I'd leave but I always imagined it to be a straight foward hit, this is complicated and I'm not sure if I'm more in the wrong than he is

OP posts:

dittany · 16/03/2008 17:10

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

BoysOnToast · 16/03/2008 17:14

good point. id want someone there for the talk. someone strong and someone intelligent. and prob some cctv too.

WallOfSilence · 16/03/2008 17:16

I can't believe dabbles thinks it's normal for a man to hit a woman after she kness him in the balls

None of the men I know would do that to a woman.

I just read this out to dh & he said the man made the first move my pinning her to the bed... how else was she supposed to react? Ask him to get up?

WallOfSilence · 16/03/2008 17:18

Binkle & dabbles....

if you have a husband/partner there...ask them what they think of the OP.

Ask them what their reaction would be in the same position....

pagwatch · 16/03/2008 17:19

My Dh said the same thing. He said pinning someone to a bed and shouting intheir face is violence even if it wasn't a hit or a punch.
He asked me how I would view myself if I did that to DS2.

( btw The answer is 'bullying scumbag').
Dh wouldn't shout in my face let alone pin me down. I am pretty that this has even created a question over who's fault this is....

MrsMacaroon · 16/03/2008 17:19

As my DH points out- the initial pinning down on the bed happened because he is bigger and stronger ie- he was using his strength against her...this is in itself and act of violence. As someomore vulnerable stranger (ie an old person, female or child) in the street, pin them down and scream in their face- you should be charged with assault and if victim of that assault decides in that split second, to kick, spit, slap or punch the aggressor, they would be acting in self-defense. I doubt anyone would argue with that. Soooo why is it different because they are two people in a relationship having an argument? There are often shades of grey in arguments but when it comes to physical aggression and violence- it is balck and white. The same would go for if she had started it by coming at him with a weapon or attacked him first. This is the only time it would be acceptable for him to pin her down. EVER. The follow up threat is extra worrying.

MrsMacaroon · 16/03/2008 17:43

As someomore = If you went up to a more

also

balck = black

catzy · 16/03/2008 18:32

If this has happened on the street and the police had witnessed it - HE would have been arrested for assult.

What worries me is that you said in an earlier post that you had not really disagreed on something so strongly before. So what happens the next time you do? I don't think you can look at this as if it's a one off and is never going to happen again. Any loss of control is a worry.

I really hope you get this sorted out whether you stay together or not. He needs to look at why he lost it so badly. Who's to say he wouldn't have gone further if you hadn't defended yourself or continued to disagree with him.

Dabbles · 16/03/2008 20:41

Are you talking to him yet?

Blueskythinker · 16/03/2008 21:14

Don't let him tell you that you are the one who introduced violence - if he does he will use it against you time & time again.

He was wrong to have pinned you down & screm in your face. What did he expect?

Original poster

UnhappySim · 16/03/2008 21:49

Thanks again for the replies.

There isnt that much of a size difference between us, I'm about 5.10 and he is 6ft. He is obviously a lot stronger though.

We have talked briefly, he said he pinned me down because I was frustrating him not listening to what he was saying. He accepts he shouldn't have done it but said he won't tolerate being kicked and hit, he said he wouldn't do that to me so I shouldn't do it to him. I then asked about his threat of further violence and he said he only said that because he was angry

I have a mark around my neck where he grabbed me, I showed it to him and he apologised and said he was wrong to do that, I have apologised too for kicking and hitting him.

I don't fear him now as such but I'm wondering how I will feel the next time we argue, I don't want it to get to the point where I'm watching what I say incase he flips again.

OP posts:

madamez · 16/03/2008 21:53

I'm a bit concerned that he somehow thinks you not listening justifies him pinning you down ie he thinks it's ok to use force if you won't listen to him. I think you do have to tell him that if he ever uses force against you again you will call the police and end the relationship - how he reacts to you saying this will give you some indication of how likely it is that he will hurt you again. If he acknowledges that he was entirely wrong to use force against you, then you can probably get over this together. If he is still trying to apportion blame to you for his act of agression, then he thinks, whatever he says, that it is fundamentally OK for him to control you using force if you are not obedient. And he will do it again. And again.

Dabbles · 16/03/2008 22:06

UnhappySim - I sincerely hope you and you OH can work it out and that you are okay.

MrsMacaroon · 16/03/2008 22:50

His apology lacks a proper acceptance of the gravity of his initial physical aggression. He didn't pin you down because he was frustrated that you weren't listening- that's like saying it was your fault- he pinned you down because he couldn't handle his anger...bottom line. You could have called his mother a whore, ignored him while he was crying or done anything equally awful and he STILL wouldn't be justified in pinning you down or using it as an excuse or a reason. Chances are he's in shock about his own behavior and in denial. That doesn't mean that you should be though...I, personally would insist that he gets counselling for this before it goes any further. This is more serious than losing it and chucking something at the wall or slamming a door. He laid his hands on you when he was in no physical threat himself. There is a good chance that this will happen again and it may escalate, especially if you accept this as being partially your fault. Taking some of the responsibility for him prevents him from facing the truth and making sure he stays on top of his anger.

chipmonkey · 16/03/2008 23:51

I agree that you're not listening to him is absolutely no excuse for him pinning you down. My ds's frequently don't listen to me and it would be unacceptable for me to pin them down and shout in their faces!
I do think your kicking and punching him was done in fear and self-defence so IMO you have far less reason to apologise than he does.

dittany · 17/03/2008 00:09

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

BoysOnToast · 17/03/2008 07:37

listen to madamez - she is v wise.

Blueskythinker · 17/03/2008 17:58

UnhappySim,

You need to get the mark on your face / neck recorded - either go to your GP (preferable), or take a photo of it (or ideally, both).

You may never need to use this, but it is better to have it recorded just in case. Don't make the mistake of thinking it doesn't matter. There may be a point in the future (hopefully not, but possible) when you wish you had some documentary evidence of this.

cory · 17/03/2008 19:36

I have to admit that if my dh were to pin me to the bed and grab me by the throat I would assume that he had gone insane and that I had to get away at all costs. Simply because in my world this isn't what sane men do.

But I would be very interested to hear from the supporters of the husband for some practical suggestions. You are lying on the bed, with pinned down, with a husband who has suddenly gone aggressive shouting in your face. This is a totally new situation and you don't know what's coming next.

You are not strong enough to shift him and get away, the only part of your body that is free to move is your legs, and if you kick upwards you will knee him in the groin.

This, you say, is not allowed. So what is allowed? What should one do in this situation? Lie back and think of England? I would be genuinely interested in a constructive suggestion that does not involve violence.

I very much dislike the idea of violence on either part in a domestic relationship, but in the present situation I find it difficult to think of any other way for her to get him off her.

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