this is the end, isn't it?

[merryxmasnot]

Been with DH a long time. 3 teenage kids. Until a few years ago, I would have said our marriage was strong and good, although always had a problem with his temper. He's not the best at processing/articulating emotions - flares up very quickly, not great at communicating calmly when there is any conflict. However, until recently he would be quick to apologise and this sort of thing would happen rarely.

Past few years have been quite stressful for various reasons, he's snappy and grumpy the majority of the time, and his temper is getting worse. He's never violent, but he shouts and swears at me and the kids. It's like he sees red. We had a lovely day today, doing festive prep, having fun with the kids. We saw some friends in the afternoon, had a few drinks (this probably didn't help), came home, he was doing more cooking. Kids were pissing around play-fighting and DH lost his shit with them to the point he made them all cry.

He was literally screaming at them that he does so much for them and they don't appreciate him, it was an absolute explosion and we were all begging him to stop. After storming around the house, telling us Christmas was off and making the poor kids utterly distraught, he calms down a little bit. Lays a bit of a guilt trip on them, trying to explain that they do his head in, and he's so stressed out, and feels unappreciated etc. It was awful. I feel like they'll never forget this. Eldest son was saying our family is dysfunctional. He is right.

I have apologised to the kids, tried to talk in through. I hate to say it, but I even made some excuses for DH to try to 'explain things' - when I know in my heart there is no excuse.

What also feels disturbing is that - while he's apologised to the kids - he's not apologising to me. Has gone to sleep in another room leaving me to put all the presents out etc.

This is it, isn't it? I can't come back from this.

I used to think this way about my abusive ex. He was horrendous towards me but I'd think, if he'd have done or said xyz, I'd definitely leave him. What he was actually doing was already more (much, much more) than enough to leave but I think I was in some weird limbo/denial/bargaining stage.

I had this moment with my ex about 6 years ago. It was the fact it had involved the kids that made me finally realise it wasn’t me who was to blame for his temper. For many reasons it took 3 years to get out. I had 3 kids as well. The older 2 were teens abc and impacted and watched it play out for 3 more years but wanted us to split. We’ve had joint custody as he is an ok dad, the issue was the kids seeing how he was treating me. I’m 3 years on from the split and don’t regret it.

Your kids will always remember yesterday, but I think how they process it will depend on what happens next. If he sees a doctor and makes changes that will be better.

No, you haven’t, op. You can still do that, without your dh. This is where you start to create that secure and loving home.

My dad was like this and I used to say prayers that my parents would split up. They didn’t, and I was never comfortable in their house as an adult until he died.

They may not be as devastated as you think.

I hope it is the end. It needs to either be the end of his behaviour, no excuses, or the end of you tolerating it and therefore making plans to leave. Show your children that in a healthy relationship people have boundaries and expectations and if they aren’t met they leave.

I learnt it is impossible to create a secure home if one parent is unpredictable. You are doing your best and someone else is undoing it.

You still have time to change things - my DD said the other day how ‘the new house’ is so much calmer than ’the old house’ because you would not know what sort of day it would be there.

See how the mood is this morning- if he doesn’t get up for ages then take the kids for a walk and hot chocolate if you can find somewhere that’s open rather than sitting round waiting for him to emerge.

I grow up in the home a bit like this. I wished my parents split up, but they didn’t. I ended up in an emotionally abusive marriage (well, that’s what everyone tells me, I still blame myself…) I was so used to walking on eggshells and managing someone else’s moods that it felt normal tk me. I know it’s hard (I’m recently divorced), but sometimes we have to do hard things. You obviously love you kids so much and they’re lucky to have you.

If he is being moody and grumpy for a long time. This is not one of a kind event but as you say it may be the last straw.

Forget about the day a and focus on his whole behaviour. Is is worth to be with him? If the answer is not start making your plans for breaking.

In the other hand kids playing around when someone is cooking is very annoying and also dangerous. However this is not a excuse for him, seems like he does things like this more often that he should

Why don't you decide this is the last Christmas with him, it'll take the pressure off you knowing you'll never have to go through this again. People only change if they want to, your children deserve a more stable life, it must be like walking on eggshells all the time for them. I wish you well going into 2024.

He sounds like a complete jerk, what are you doing with this man, go to a solicitor and plan how you are going to get rid of him.

Shouting and swearing is violence. It is exactly violence. You are married to a violent and abusive man.

Speaking as a child from a dysfunctional family, The one thing I say to my father now is that I wish he hadn’t stayed for us kids and had left with us years and years before he did. He thought he was staying with my mum for our sake and we wouldn’t actually pick up on a lot of what was going on but kids aren’t stupid. Get your finances and a plan in order and leave this man so your children don’t turn into adults telling you that they wished you’d left sooner.

I was you four years ago, except my kids were younger. I did the same as you, reaching out here for advice and was mainly advised the same - essentially to LTB. It too me another 6 months from this post and during that time STBXDH got more and more angry until eventually he physically turned on me. It was a shame because we had had 20 years together and some of this was great but his anger was just too difficult to live with. I coped in the years before we had kids but when once I saw him acting like that in front of them I couldn't have that. So I left him. That will be four years ago this New Year's Day although we did have to live together for 6 months longer due to selling the house and also lockdown.

There have been some difficulties, mainly financial and also domestic as I hate doing all the STUFF in the house for 3 of us, but we are now happily in our own home with DH living nearby having the kids once a week. Whilst there are things I miss about our relationship it feels great not to be walking on eggshells all the time. Overall my life is great! Full of fun and interesting things and interesting people. It was before really, except I was with DH, but now I dont have to deal with his anger it's even better. Good luck! Here's what I posted over four years ago - you can probably relate to some of it:

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/relationships/3666230-Demise-of-marriage-Feelings-turned-by-one-conversation

They'll always remember this.

Making three teenagers cry is no easy feat. I would have kicked him out yesterday, Christmas or not.

No ultimatums, he's not going to change. Stop letting him damage your children and their own future relationships - because they will copy this. End it.

Thank you so much everyone. I am ok - kids are pretending nothing has happened but I can tell they are a bit on edge, hugging me a lot and thanking me for the presents that they know I choose and buy for them.

DH also pretending like nothing has happened, although seems a bit low - I think he is ashamed of himself - and he should be. I am staying out of his way while he does the cooking. I know lots of women have to carry the load in the kitchen today, and I suppose it’s admirable that DH does all that, and I know it’s how he expresses love - hence the ridiculous tantrum last when he felt he’d been slaving away and no-one was being grateful.

While I know the meal is a big part of the day for lots of people, in all honesty I’d rather have a fucking pizza today and a house that feels calm and loving. ☹️

@Freetodowhatiwant - thank you so much. I just quickly read your first post and SO much resonated with me, it’s remarkable. I too have had holidays where I feel happier if he’s not there with us. I will read it all properly when I have more time.

You're me 6 years ago, my husband's behaviour was fuelled by alcohol addiction. He ruined our last Christmas for us and it all got very bad, including police involvement.

This year I have a house full of lovely people - my two now adult children, two friends, one partner, my foster son and his partner and 5 cats. Everyone mucks in with cooking, dishes, everything. We laugh a lot, play board games and watch crappy telly. It's happy and peaceful. Give yourself that for next year. Your kids will understand that this isn't OK and your husband can either fully shape up, including very major anger management, or he can ship out.

His behaviour is unacceptable. However, it sounds as if at the heart of it, he is a caring father and there are genuine stresses.

Don't get me wrong, I don't disagree with PP comments, and maybe you are the end of your tether and it is time to end it.

I was in a very abusive marriage. It was characterised by exH's utter disregard for me and DC, we were tools in his abuse.

I'm someone who doesn't handle stress well, and am often snappy & over-reactive, something I address with my DC. I am not saying that's equivalent to your DH, or excusing losing it to the extent everyone is upset.

It's just another perspective about really getting him to see that this is wrong & that counselling is required.

Of course it may be intractable & then being the marriage might be the only option.

I hope today is ok for you 💐

Part of me is thinking about an ultimatum in the New Year - ie he gets help managing his temper and learning to control his awful mood swings or the marriage is over. We just can't live like this any more.

Sorry OP, I missed this.

I think this is the right approach. It may make him realise how serious this is.

I also just can’t shake the sense of failure. My childhood was very unstable with a degree of trauma, and I think I wanted to settle down very quickly and create a loving home - but it’s hitting me that, to an extent, I rushed into doing this with the wrong person.

@EarringsandLipstick - yes, there are stresses and yes, he loves the kids - but this isn’t ok. I have asked him to get some help in the past and he said he was going to but kicked it into the long grass and never did - and here we are.

Sorry final post.

The devil is in the detail.

It could well be that he's behaving like this because he wants out; my awful, abusive ex escalated his behaviour - ruining every important occasion, placing me in mortifying positions in public / at family events - because he wanted to leave but was never going to do anything about it.

In my case, he was abusive so enjoyed the control & the power over me that his behaviour brought.

That doesn't sound the case with your H, but only you can tell.

I'm certainly not trying to minimise his behaviour, just trying to say that there may be varying perspectives. Some very direct & clear conversations immediately after Christmas are needed.

Worried he will refuse to get help tbh. I honestly have the sense he doesn’t love me anymore.

I'm so sorry OP what an awful experience.

I think you're right there's no going back now . Children will be scared of him and you will live your life treading on eggshells .
It's time to plan to leave in the new year .

Afwiw I wouldn't be accepting an apology .

Oh that makes a difference.

If you've already asked, and he said he would, and hasn't, it's a known issue that he's refusing to address.

My exH agreed several times to counselling - he did attend but then used it as a tool to make it about 'my' problems. When (both) counsellors eventually saw through him & called him out, he admitted to one that he had never felt he'd any problems, he was there as I needed to be 'fixed'; with the second he was told he needed to take responsibility for his own actions & lead the counselling - and he never went back.

I think it sounds like you fundamentally know if this is fixable or not & if it's not, you are correct in ending it.