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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Original poster

this is the end, isn't it?

106 replies

merryxmasnot · 24/12/2023 23:27

Been with DH a long time. 3 teenage kids. Until a few years ago, I would have said our marriage was strong and good, although always had a problem with his temper. He's not the best at processing/articulating emotions - flares up very quickly, not great at communicating calmly when there is any conflict. However, until recently he would be quick to apologise and this sort of thing would happen rarely.

Past few years have been quite stressful for various reasons, he's snappy and grumpy the majority of the time, and his temper is getting worse. He's never violent, but he shouts and swears at me and the kids. It's like he sees red. We had a lovely day today, doing festive prep, having fun with the kids. We saw some friends in the afternoon, had a few drinks (this probably didn't help), came home, he was doing more cooking. Kids were pissing around play-fighting and DH lost his shit with them to the point he made them all cry.

He was literally screaming at them that he does so much for them and they don't appreciate him, it was an absolute explosion and we were all begging him to stop. After storming around the house, telling us Christmas was off and making the poor kids utterly distraught, he calms down a little bit. Lays a bit of a guilt trip on them, trying to explain that they do his head in, and he's so stressed out, and feels unappreciated etc. It was awful. I feel like they'll never forget this. Eldest son was saying our family is dysfunctional. He is right.

I have apologised to the kids, tried to talk in through. I hate to say it, but I even made some excuses for DH to try to 'explain things' - when I know in my heart there is no excuse.

What also feels disturbing is that - while he's apologised to the kids - he's not apologising to me. Has gone to sleep in another room leaving me to put all the presents out etc.

This is it, isn't it? I can't come back from this.

OP posts:
EarringsandLipstick · 25/12/2023 10:07

merryxmasnot · 25/12/2023 10:00

Worried he will refuse to get help tbh. I honestly have the sense he doesn’t love me anymore.

That's very powerful & sad

One Christmas when I had a newborn (and two older DC under 4) I read a line in a book that made me realise my marriage was over, and that H was not a good person.

I cried & cried as I couldn't see how I could leave the marriage.

It lasted two more awful years where he broke me, left me in a financial mess, escalated his abuse

I'm not saying it is the same. But I recognise that gut instinct of 'this isn't working' and I think it's worth listening to.

Hugs to you today. Christmas is brutal for this.

FreeRider · 25/12/2023 10:26

The Christmas Fucking Martyr.

In my family it was both my mother and my father...they used to take turns. The reason was that neither of them ever really wanted to 'celebrate' it in the first place and felt like they 'had' to put on a show for my mother's family.

Due to terrible decisions they made when I was 9 we became estranged from them...and all pretence at giving a shit about Christmas stopped too. From then on, because I loved Christmas I was the one buying the decorations, putting them up, basically forcing my mother to get a tree etc...if I hadn't bothered no one would have. Even back then I used to get upset that my parents just didn't care - like your daughter, I'd look at my friends and their families and was aware of how fucked up my family actually was.

I could almost guarantee that at some point on Christmas Day one of them would go off on a rant about all the 'effort' they had made - which consisted of just doing a standard roast dinner - and how unappreciated they were etc. It was like they almost resented us having a good time.

My father disappeared off working abroad, having affairs etc...however my Catholic mother refused to divorce him and instead made the family home a bitter difficult place to be. He finally left when I was 21 (I'd already left home). Like other posters have mentioned, my anger is with both of them, I see my mother as a weak woman who put her marriage and religion above the happiness of her children.

adultchildofalcoholicparents · 25/12/2023 10:32

it seems we are seriously dysfunctional.

You sound run of the mill to me and I wouldn't be shocked at that outburst, guilt trip, martyrdom etc.

But, I grew up with that and the story is my username. Except my dad would have been in the pub and certainly not playing an active role. And my mother wouldn't have been worrying about how we felt but literally having panic attacks.

That said, a friend's mother once asked her what "dysfunctional family" means. My friend responded: "You know the way we all get on Boxing Day after non-stop family? Dysfunctional families are like that every day of the year."

AuntMarch · 25/12/2023 10:38

"Do you think the kids will always remember this?"

Of course they will, it was a massive deal! But hopefully they'll remember it as the time that you stood up for them and made changes - whether that is H getting help, or leaving.
They won't forget it, but it can be outweighed by future happiness.

ChristmasFairyGodmother · 25/12/2023 10:47

Look, he isn't going to "get help" and your fantasy that he will change is just your way of putting off the inevitable.

People don't change unless they are fully committed ro it and have excellent support. There is no sign at all of your husband attempting to change.why would he? Everything is just perfect for him; he can behave as badly as he wants and life goes on.

If you truly want change, you are the only one who can effect it.

ibelieveinmirrorballs · 25/12/2023 11:04

I can’t comment on your H’s behaviour but I do know as a single parent to teens with a very full-on responsible job (and in my case single income household) the pressure of everything around this time and holding everything together at work can feel unbelievably overwhelming.

You sound quite dismissive of his claim that work is stressful. He may be taking clients out for lunch but is that because he has hard targets to meet and isn’t doing so? Is he the main income provider and is he at risk of redundancy etc? I have had these worries recently and the pressure feels overwhelming.

As I say I don’t want to comment on how bad his behaviour was, and whether it crossed a line - only you know the history and his general respect for you and the kids. But I’ve said things while feeling completely overwhelmed to my kids that you might categorise in the same way - my mantra as a parent doing her best is that I don’t get things right all the time and all I can do is apologise in that event and talk about it.

Original poster
merryxmasnot · 25/12/2023 11:14

Thanks again everyone.

@ibelieveinmirrorballs - he is under some pressure at work in a senior role, but it’s not saving lives or anything! We have had some financial stress recently thinking about future of the kids at uni and what we (don’t!) have saved for retirement, but we are ultimately ok. It certainly doesn’t warrant a total breakdown like last night.

OP posts:
Honeychickpea · 25/12/2023 11:20

merryxmasnot · 25/12/2023 01:14

@Motherrr - thank you. I know every family is dysfunctional but this felt off the scale tbh. I DO think he's getting worse, yes. Like I said, it has been a tough year but his grumpy, snappy behaviour has been worsening - and the outburst earlier was one of the worst I've seen.

He did eventually calm down, and actually got quite tearful in front of the kids saying sorry. He was going on about how he been so stressed at work (honestly, his job mainly involves taking clients for lunch - he seems to manage to contain his moods with them of course) and how no-one appreciates all the effort he makes (funny how thanking him profusely all day long for the cooking he chose to do went totally unnoticed). He was making the kids feel so bad 'we do so much for you blah blah blah'.

Writing this down I am getting so fucking angry.

Nobody's job just consists of taking people to lunch. If this contemptuous attitude is the norm from you toward your husband I think you would both benefit greatly from a split.

cansu · 25/12/2023 11:20

All the stress at work and financial concerns about paying for uni are excuses. Many people have shit jobs and financial problems and they don't shout and scream at their families. He chooses to take out his feelings in you all. He knows he can get away with it. He couldn't do it at work as he would lose his job. He couldn't do it with friends as they would stop seeing him. He can do it with you all as it isn't easy to walk away from a marriage.

ibelieveinmirrorballs · 25/12/2023 11:24

Having a senior role can be unbelievably stressful even if you’re not “saving lives”! As I say I can’t comment on his behaviour and it does sound extreme but you do sound dismissive of him having the right to feel stressed or overwhelmed. I’m not “saving lives” either but in a senior role with lots of turbulence and uncertainty - it can feel like crawling to the finish line at this time of year. Do you share the financial burden or is it more on him?

I'm very glad I don’t drink for exactly this reason - it sounds like adding this to the mix yesterday caused him to behave badly. However, it also sounds like you have a perfectionism/martyring thing going on a little bit here too - taking the blame for not giving your children a “perfect childhood” - I’m sure on occasion my kids have thought they’re in a ‘dysfunctional’ family… most families have issues and occasional meltdowns and the only thing that keeps me feeling okay about it is knowing I’m doing my best, and that it’s how you deal with these meltdowns that matters. None of us are perfect.

Renamed · 25/12/2023 11:25

As well as counselling it would be a good idea to get a full physical check up. Things like vascular disease, diabetes, can absolutely fuck with your moods. Not that this would be an excuse for him, and I hope he will be willing to explore the causes of his horrendous explosion, whatever it takes.

Original poster
merryxmasnot · 25/12/2023 11:44

@Honeychickpea and @ibelieveinmirrorballs - well, sorry if I sound a bit dismissive but honestly, his job isn’t a wildly demanding one. Our life is far, far easier than it is for a lot of people in some ways. @cansu nails it - there’s no excuse for screaming at your wife and kids.

OP posts:
Original poster
merryxmasnot · 25/12/2023 11:45

@Renamed - this is a good idea, thank you.

OP posts:
RenoDakota · 25/12/2023 11:49

merryxmasnot · 24/12/2023 23:50

My poor daughter was even saying 'I look at my friends' families and think 'they can't be like this'. This isn't the first time there has been some big, horrible row like this, obviously - but this feels like the worst.

It's just not okay, is it?

OP, this says everything. Remove yourself from this abusive arsehole and make a happier life for you and your children Flowers

Outwiththenorm · 25/12/2023 11:51

Can you try an ultimatum? After Christmas obviously. My uncle used to shout and roar and act the martyr towards my aunt and cousins. Even in front of the rest of the family sometimes. He was clearly going through midlife crisis / miserable at work etc and just used to take it out on them by exploding. My aunt would put up with it and try to minimise it for sake of the kids. However when they got to teenage years she finally had enough and told him to stop or get out - she really meant it and it worked. It wasn’t overnight but he stopped and got some kind of counselling. I’m not sure I could have quite forgiven him myself but she did and now has a great relationship with his kids. You have to really mean it though, not just threaten it, and follow through if he doesn’t buck up.

ibelieveinmirrorballs · 25/12/2023 11:58

Someone’s capacity for not coping or feeling overwhelmed has got nothing to do with whether or not their life is harder than other people’s. My life is objectively easier than it is for loads of other people’s too - it’s literally the most irritating thing someone could say when I feel I’m not coping.

But - it sounds like you’ve decided this is unacceptable, that there is no excuse, etc. I wouldn’t advise now embarking on a crusade to “make him see sense” and go to counselling. Either he does or he doesn’t think he needs support, and that’s for him to work out and not for you to fix.

MorningFresh · 25/12/2023 12:50

k1233 · 25/12/2023 03:20

@merryxmasnot "Do you think the kids will always remember this?"

Yes they will. My father told me I was shit and I was nothing when I was 17. Over 30 years later I haven't forgotten. Same as I haven't forgotten all the years before that

Sadly they will remember it. I am over 60 and still think of all the Christmas's my mother spoiled for us. It grieves me also that my dad facilitated her by not doing anything.

TheaBrandt · 25/12/2023 14:15

He’s not your problem op. Split him off in your mind. You care about your kids and you. Big boy has to sort himself out now - you’re done.

Honeychickpea · 25/12/2023 14:21

merryxmasnot · 25/12/2023 11:44

@Honeychickpea and @ibelieveinmirrorballs - well, sorry if I sound a bit dismissive but honestly, his job isn’t a wildly demanding one. Our life is far, far easier than it is for a lot of people in some ways. @cansu nails it - there’s no excuse for screaming at your wife and kids.

How demanding is your job?

Mabelface · 25/12/2023 14:41

His refusal to seek help means that he's choosing to behave like this towards you and there children. Your children will remember this for the rest of their lives, alongside the decisions you make from hereon.

Show your children that this abuse is never okay, under any circumstances, and tell your husband to leave once this day is over. There are no excuses.

Milkybarsareonmeeeee · 25/12/2023 15:14

Globules · 25/12/2023 07:40

Advice?

Don't bring it up today @merryxmasnot unless they do. If they do, don't minimise it. Be factual and clear. Tell them the behaviour you don't think was ok.

You'll be very well practiced at the game face by now. Time to put it on again for the sake of the kids. Rise above. Don't let them see the inner anger. Do allow them to see you be tired though. If they ask, tell them the truth that you had trouble sleeping. If they ask why, tell them the truth that you were reflecting on their dad's behaviour.

Enjoy every wonderful minute you have with your children today. Because they're wonderful.

Keep popping on MN through the day if you have time. There will always be someone along to give you a boost if you're feeling one is needed.

Keep going through this bit as strong as you can. Your children need to see you rising above.

Sending you strength for the day.

This

The kids need to know thsi isn’t acceptable behaviour instead do lunch making excuses .

Original poster
merryxmasnot · 25/12/2023 17:12

@Honeychickpea - very demanding and quite unpredictable in terms of income and job security.

OP posts:
Friedfriedplantain · 25/12/2023 17:38

ibelieveinmirrorballs · 25/12/2023 11:24

Having a senior role can be unbelievably stressful even if you’re not “saving lives”! As I say I can’t comment on his behaviour and it does sound extreme but you do sound dismissive of him having the right to feel stressed or overwhelmed. I’m not “saving lives” either but in a senior role with lots of turbulence and uncertainty - it can feel like crawling to the finish line at this time of year. Do you share the financial burden or is it more on him?

I'm very glad I don’t drink for exactly this reason - it sounds like adding this to the mix yesterday caused him to behave badly. However, it also sounds like you have a perfectionism/martyring thing going on a little bit here too - taking the blame for not giving your children a “perfect childhood” - I’m sure on occasion my kids have thought they’re in a ‘dysfunctional’ family… most families have issues and occasional meltdowns and the only thing that keeps me feeling okay about it is knowing I’m doing my best, and that it’s how you deal with these meltdowns that matters. None of us are perfect.

Maybe she sounds dismissive because she manages to deal with the stresses of life without screaming at her kids, and therefore has first-hand proof it is possible?

coldcallerbaiter · 25/12/2023 17:57

I grew up with this, damage is not done by one outburst in a while, eg 3 times a year., however it is damage if it is frequent, it becomes
just too much. It’s miserable, and leaves a scar.

Can the threat of a split where he knows you mean it, get him to think before he goes this?

You have to hit rock bottom before a change is made sometimes

Endoftheroad12345 · 25/12/2023 19:31

hi @merryxmasnot

I ended my marriage last November 2022 - my ex was like your H. Rage unleashed on me, not usually at the DC (then aged 4 & 8) but they had a front row seat for it. Scary tantrums, smashing things, vile name calling etc. Last Christmas we were still under the same roof and kids hadn’t yet been told - he made DS - then 8 - cry twice. Completely lost the plot on Christmas night, screaming at me, kids crying and went to sleep on my bed because they were so scared/upset.

Like yours, mine always blamed his soooo stressful job. Ironically we do the same job (I am actually more senior) and I’ve never behaved the way he did. We are lawyers, not brain surgeons or homicide detectives. Now I am out of it I also realise alcohol plays a far greater role than I realised - he appears high performing but is heavily reliant on alcohol to disassociate from anxiety.

I spent this Christmas in MY house (I bought him out just before Christmas) with my two amazing children. I did everything- food, Santa, gifts, stockings, decorating- by myself … but I always did. My home is happy and calm. The process of leaving him was hellish (like you, I felt he didn’t love me any more at all, but he also didn’t want his comfortable life disturbed) - but I’ve never regretted my decision. I am 42 now and life is full of possibility.