Is it stupid to think he could change?

[Weimlove]

I've posted on here previously about whether my relationship was emotionally abusive and resounding response was big fat yes. He's been very critical of me and wearing down my self esteem and temper issues (which led to punching walls). It just became a very negative and toxic environment with us both placing blame on the other.

We have been trying to work on things and he has improved day to day. I have been going to a therapist for a few months to work through my self-esteem issues and trying to work out whether to stay or leave. Initially DP refused to admit that he has contributed to my self esteem issues and just gaslight me during any discussion. Over the last few weeks he's changed his response and is now saying he will go to anger management and accepts responsibility that it's not all my fault - he has contributed to my lack of self esteem. I was ready to leave as I felt he was making superficial changes and blaming me but I feel maybe he's taking responsibility and trying to change.

On the other hand I can't seem to get out of my head the advice I've had (here and IRL) that I shouldn't stay if the relationship has been abusive and that he won't change. I worry if he can really fundamentally change long term. So I don't know, I am just looking for some advice and perhaps from people who have been in this kind of situation who stayed and don't regret it?

Why can't you just keep the dog? Fuck him. Keep the dog.

I would not return the dog or go back to him with the dog either. Dogs are like children, very attuned to their owner’s emotions and they can pick up on unhappiness, which does not do them much good either. The dog will be much better off with you out of that toxic relationship and in a stable permanent environment.

The odds are of the relationship ending again at some stage if you go back because you are a normal human being who reaches their limit.
I would also possibly consider looking at a new therapist too as the one you have should have told you by now that you cannot expect your partner to change. It maybe that they do not have a good understanding of manipulative personalities, as they can appear very sincere and persuasive to outsiders when they need to be.
I went for counseling with my ex and our male counsellor was a straight talker and had no time for games or nonsense. He asked to see me by myself and said that basic adult personality is mostly fixed. I had two choices, either I stayed and accept he would never change (and learn to live with it with my expectations suitably low) or I could leave and have more control over my life and future.

He said if I chose to leave he would choose me for counseling going forward (as it’s a conflict of interest to keep seeing both parties separately once a relationship is over).

Keep going. You're doing really well. Don't give the dog back,he is just trying to upset you by saying that, it's a form of manipulation. You have done so well to leave.

@Weimlove He wants the dog back. YOU want the dog. Why does what HE wants count more than what YOU want? You want the dog, you have the dog, you keep the dog - simples! As pp said, he’s using this demand to get to you and upset you. Ignore, this life from here on is about what you want.

Did he buy the dog?
Who pays its' vet bills?
Who walks the dog and who is the dog more attached to?

Those are the things a court would ask.

You've got to nip this in the butt right now otherwise you'll end up doing something stupid like sharing custody. And that's a nono with people like him as he'll use it to stay in your life and try con you back to him.

Either you keep the dog or he does. No walks together or any of that shit. If he wants he can take you to court but if you can show you pay for the animal then he hasn't a leg to stand on.

If he pays, it's his dog. But you can still keep them for now and he can pursue it legally if he wants. Do not just give him the dog or agree to visits.

Just 'no, do not contact me again'.
You've got to get tough or he'll use this as an in.

Hey - I don't know if this helps at all, but I hope it does. For what it is worth, I'm right here with you. Much of what you said, I could've written myself. Should you ever need the ear of someone who may not have the answers, but understands, I am here. I also have so much self-doubt as my partner is promising change. They can be so charming and 'kind' that I find myself hoping for this to be true x

@justfindingmyway I'm so sorry for not replying, it was a chaotic time. I appreciate your response and offer of help so much. Hope you are doing ok?

I did unfortunately go back after a few days and feel so embarrassed for that. Things have been ok for a while but same things slowly creeping in so I know that I need and want to leave but it's just to hard. And I know I need to be ready to leave and make it stick. A disappointing update I am sure.

This isn't weak and I worry about this forum sometimes. Is his behaviour healthy? No. Can he change? Not his identity no, but he can learn to change his thinking patterns and build a healthier relationship with you.

At the end of the day, if it's not working for you, the only behaviour you can change is your own. I would recommend you take the counselling option solo, as it seems like your own self esteem isn't there, and with time, it might help to enable you to leave if that's the right thing for you.

@Vretz thanks, i think you are correct. I have been doing counselling for months in the lead up to this post and currently. I just feel anytime I end things I regret it and all of the stuff with him keeping the dog felt like too much.

A few other things have happened the past few weeks (not physical but falling back into controlling me and putting me down) and I really think I've got to leave but I know there won't be any going back if I do it again. And I'm psyching myself up to having to leave the dog behind. Don't know what's keeping me here, part of me thinks I love him as we do have good times but I can also see the miserable controlling side of him that I know will never change. He's also convinced me that I just love being miserable and that if I leave it won't fix anything so part of me is worried that is true. Just want to feel strong enough in my decision when I come to leaving so that I don't go grovelling back.

This in spades.

Sounds an awful “relationship “ that is way past it’s sell by date.

Better to be single than have this poor quality man.

Take the dog with you, @Weimlove
Chances are he abuses that, too.

Who is the dog microchipped to? If it’s you your the owner legally.

I was just going to ask to whom is the dog chipped to?

Do you actually want to be with this man? The man he is, not the man you want him to be. Because he’s not going to change. Not ever. If he isn’t making you happy, or if he’s making you feel bad about yourself, or if he’s manipulating and controlling you, you can just leave. You can just walk out the door and leave. In some ways it’s really really hard, but in other ways it’s the easiest thing in the world. Just open the door and walk out into freedom.

The dog is in his name for everything. We didn't pay any money for the dog but insurance and vets are in his name unfortunately even though I do all the day to day care. And yes he is far too harsh on the dog too hence why I don't want to leave behind but not sure what other options I have.

Just take your dog and go. Go to family who will be able to confront him for you if he comes for the dog. He won't want to do all the care anyway, he can't be bothered now so why would that change.

Stop wasting your life in unhappiness, what's the point. Each passing day is one day less left to live and be happy.

You may ask @Weimlove why I guessed he was hard and abusive on the dog?
Because my friend’s dog was also abused by the awful violent boyfriend.

Take the dog!

Both of you can escape- It’s YOU that does all the care and walking by sounds of it.

Dog will be safe with you.

@YesThatsATurdOnTheRug yes thats also my thoughts that even if he did keep her, he would probably have had enough after a month and be giving her to me. I know I can't leave with her until I have a place of my own though so I would need to leave her until I am financially out of the house or stay in the house until I am not paying the monthly bills. It didn't go well taking her to stay with family last time so it's not an option.

@Weimlove My friend was severely abused physically by her violent partner
He had a dog, A Yorkie.
They bought him when they were together
Friend loved the dog so much.

When they split, he used the dog constantly as an excuse to see her.

The dog was a powerful tool.

She tragically took him back.

I last saw her with a new DC ( his) and a new dog- I went to say hello to the dog who shrank back with bared teeth and a snarl from my gently offered hand.

I said “ This dog has been hit, too, hasn’t he….”
Friend said “ Yes- but only to discipline him when he’s naughty “.

A hand shy dog.😢

My friend would never have hit a dog- but but her bully of a partner certainly did.

This is so sad 😢you're right she needs to come with as I'm sure all his anger will be directed at her when I'm not there

Oh, honey. Please don’t feel embarrassed, I really do understand how confusing your feelings can be in such a relationship. Whatever has lead you to this place is nothing to be ashamed of, whether that’s perhaps some low self esteem, believing someone can be the ‘nice’ version of themselves or believing someone when they tell you they will change. How were we meant to be equipped for any of this stuff?! I, for one, had no idea how to handle any of this, still don’t, and still find myself having weeks or even months of ‘realisation’ that I cannot stay in my relationship, that it’s dangerous, that I mustn’t allow myself to be pulled back in, only then to find myself exactly that, pulled back in! And by the end of it all, I wonder if I imagined the whole thing, that it isn’t as bad as the way I feel and I’ve made all the behaviours out to be way more of a catastrophe than what they are.

I also struggle now with thoughts of ‘it could be worse’ or ‘maybe this is as good as it gets’. I know there’s lots of encouragement here that kind, caring men are out there and that we can meet them, but you also hear horror stories and it makes me worried that things could be worse!!

So, as mentioned, I am right here with you. Do reach out if it helps you. We might find some strength in the solidarity. This forum is such a wonderful place for understanding and support.

Perhaps the answers seem simple to others, but when you’re in it, it feels so astoundingly complicated. I’m here, I hear you!