Is it stupid to think he could change?

[Weimlove]

I've posted on here previously about whether my relationship was emotionally abusive and resounding response was big fat yes. He's been very critical of me and wearing down my self esteem and temper issues (which led to punching walls). It just became a very negative and toxic environment with us both placing blame on the other.

We have been trying to work on things and he has improved day to day. I have been going to a therapist for a few months to work through my self-esteem issues and trying to work out whether to stay or leave. Initially DP refused to admit that he has contributed to my self esteem issues and just gaslight me during any discussion. Over the last few weeks he's changed his response and is now saying he will go to anger management and accepts responsibility that it's not all my fault - he has contributed to my lack of self esteem. I was ready to leave as I felt he was making superficial changes and blaming me but I feel maybe he's taking responsibility and trying to change.

On the other hand I can't seem to get out of my head the advice I've had (here and IRL) that I shouldn't stay if the relationship has been abusive and that he won't change. I worry if he can really fundamentally change long term. So I don't know, I am just looking for some advice and perhaps from people who have been in this kind of situation who stayed and don't regret it?

Also, side note, being around people takes energy. If your energy is drained by an abusive partber, you only have so much of it left. You want to keep it for yourself. Being around others is hard because you cannot pour from an empty cup.

Even harder at Christmas when you feel obligated to be merry and full of good will. But you're exhausted physically and mentally from dealing with abuse.

Hmm now you about to really leave he "changes"?
Get away from him

If he really changes he will understand you need space
But it is just a ruse ti get back soneone he can control

If you have to put all this thought angst analysing into a man them he's clearly not right for you, is he? Your posts come across as a woman who is afraid to be happy, and resistant to change so prefers to sit in misery. There are just too many women wasting their good years on the type of man who brings stress and unhappiness into life.

Men of this type need a victim, and thats what you are to him. He'll say and do anything to make sure he has your comfort and presence, but any so called 'good' he displays won't last.

& even if he has changed - So? You don't owe him a relationship either way.

People can change for themselves and because they want to. They can not change for others. It's unlikely he will change in any significant way for you to get the relationship you want and deserve.

You say you feel like you don't want to see people. Is it because you don't like them or enjoy their company? If that's the case then yes I'd question spending time with them to.

Or is it easier to not see them because of the grief you will get. When I was in a abusive relationship I stopped seeing Friends, I told myself it was because I didn't really enjoy going out anymore when actually it was I didn't want to have to justify going out, be given the silent treatment and made to feel like I was selfish for wanting to spend time with my friends. I didn't like the rules that came with being allowed to go out, what I wore, where I went, how late I stayed out. I didn't enjoy the punishments that ensued after I went out so I stopped seeing friends. It was easier.

If he is truly remorseful and wants to fix things with you, suggest you live separately and will entertain moving back in once you've finished concilling and have had a period of stability. This could take up to 18 months. If he doesn't respect this or won't even entertain the suggestion then he's not got your best interests at heart and he's still only thinking of his own wants

Thanks all
@Pinkbonbon yes I think you are right that all my energy is wasted on this and none left for anyone else
@DeeCeeCherry I am resistant to change yes but I am trying to make a change even first of all by putting boundaries in place that I hadn't before so I am trying to stop living in misery. It's just a confusing situation and taking me time to take the steps to leave.

This is quite common. Isolation is a usual component of abuse.

There's a general misconception that controlling partners are people who tell their partners "you're not allowed to go out" or "you're not allowed to hang out with those people". Usually controlling partners aren't so explicit in their controlling behaviour. They're very skilled at being implicit with it, and creating scenarios where you are the one to decide not to go out or see certain people. You think it's your decision and they keep a squeaky clean cover.

I agree with @Pinkbonbon 's points. And to expand on that, I find that in an emotionally abusive relationship, you're usually the one expending all your energy trying to keep the peace. In fact, keeping the peace becomes your number one goal in life, and everything else comes secondary to that. When I was experiencing abuse, I even stopped pursuing my own hobbies and interests because I just didn't have the energy for it, and it felt like everything that was once important to me just didn't really matter anymore.

Might be useful to think of these boundaries as being for you. And also, consider how we deal with other people trampling them.

For example:
Say a woodcutter comes onto my land and starts chopping down my trees...I might say 'hey! Stop that! Well...actually, there are some loose logs around, you can gather them.

The woodcutter pretends to agree. But the next day you come back and see he is chopping down trees again.

I say 'hey, that's not ok! Well, I suppose there are some half dead trees you can remove. They aren't very sightly anyway!'

The woodcutter pretends to agree. But low and behold, the next day there he is back again. And - He's chopped down every fucking tree on your land.

What you should have done, is on day one, told the cheeky bastard to get tf off your land! And when you got home that night, made a mental note to yourself to call the police if you ever saw him near it again.

Because woodcutters chop wood, it's in their nature. Set the boundaries for yourself so that you don't take any shit. The second you see them for what they are, enforce your boundary ON yourself. Don't play nice, don't compromise, don't think about what that cheeky git wants. Just act to protect yourself. Enforce your own boundary.

Which generally, should be to remove this person from your life as fast as possible.

Setting boundaries for shitty people, hoping it'll make them less shitty, is relatively pointless. Better to set them for ourselves regarding non negotiable in what we tolerate. If someone breaks a non negotiable, we remove them from out life. No compromise. No more second chances.

This thread made me make an account.
I feel like I am in exactly the same boat as the OP. I feel you girl. We need to leave. It's so hard because of the good bits we have seen and been a part of. Is this really abuse or are we just not good together? Is it us? Or is it them? A combination of both?
Either way, the bad stuff is always outweighing the good these days and I'm just exhausted with it.

Sending strength and love.

@LeoLibra18 so sorry to hear you are going through the same thing. It's so confusing and exhausting. Hope you are ok 💗

Hope everyone has had a lovely Christmas and appreciate all the advice so far 💐my Christmas has been ok but somewhat dampened by his usual comments and how I feel. I think I'm looking for any and every excuse to leave him. I really want to find the strength to end things and just start the new year feeling free and calm. I also feel he's going to twist things and say he's doing everything I asked of him then I still want to leave, so I think he's going to make it really difficult. Can anyone give some advice on how to pluck up the courage to go and not be talked around? I'd maybe move out to family in the interim so I'm trying to not let practical things stop me just now.

I'd honestly speak to someone in real life if you can

@CandyLeBonBon thanks, yeah I am speaking to family etc but I just find they are too close and never been in this situation themselves. Any time I've explained what's going on it's met with just leave and not any understanding of why I'm finding it hard to go if that makes sense.

Sorry I meant a counsellor specialising in divorce and separation- might be worth investing some regular time in working through issues you come up with to help you avoid being 'talked around' - sorry I should've been clearer!

He will not change. He feels you slipping out from under his control so he changes tack. Further intimidation is counterproductive so he attempts to manipulate you by pretending to agree, to make you think he intends to change things. You stop pulling away, ease back into the relationship and he reverts slowly back to his old ways with you right back where he wants you.

He's panicking. You are no longer doing exactly what he wants. Keep going. This is nothing but a last ditch attempt to get you back under control.

He is going to make it really difficult. Men like that don't let you go easy. He'll say anything to convince you you're making a mistake. At least you know this and you can be somewhat prepared.

It took me three attempts to leave my ex. The first two times he managed to corner me and make me feel I had no choice but to give things another go. On the third attempt, I made a promise to myself that I wouldn't go back to him no matter what.

The first two times I ended things, he got me alone and basically held me hostage in conversation until I agreed to get back with him. I kept trying to reiterate that I wanted to end things, but he wouldn't let up until I agreed to give him another chance. So on the third attempt, I made sure to avoid being alone with him as much as possible, and I told myself that if the same thing happened again, I'd send him a message later on along the lines of "it's not my intention to mess you about, but I only agreed to get back together because I felt I had no choice in the moment. But I want to make it clear now that I do not wish to continue our relationship". Fortunately, I never had to send such a message.

I'm afraid I don't have any particularly practical advice, as the most important thing is that you stay strong and stand firm in your decision to end things. Your best defence against his manipulation is to stick to your guns. You need to trust yourself over him.

I think it's a very good idea to sort out the practical plans first, such as staying with family, before you break up with him. That way you'll feel more committed to your decision. And have a general plan of how you're going to handle it if he does persuade you to agree to get back together.

Could you leave first and end it by text?

Move whatever he won't notice out then move out too and just text him. Anything left, send a relative to pick up.

Assuming it's you that intends to leave the property that is.

Thanks for the advice all.

Texting to break up feels mean but I guess may be best option as previously I have lost my resolve when we discuss it all. I guess I just need to be selfish and put myself first as I feel like I am ruining his life. But he's not changed and all the comments, snapping at me etc are slowly creeping back in already so I am planning to leave in next few days or so, just need to figure out when.

Good. Sending strength!
Put yourself first - after all it's what he does.
Focus on the practicalities.
You'll be so relieved and glad when you're rid of him.

Tell him you are tired of trying, he is who he is, & papering over the cracks is not working, you aren't happy.
Its over.
Grey Rock the recriminations, blame, excuses.

My decision is final
Sorry you feel that way
No

Thank you 🙏 I do feel strong in how I feel and like I'll be able to do this, probably thanks to all the support here. I keep imagining a better life and although it's very scary as it's unknown, I just know I can't live this way much longer. I feel really broken down, unhappy and drinking alcohol to cope. I just feel ready to feel calm and really look after myself again, and start doing more exercise that I love. Hopefully I will have a positive update soon 💆

Having a conversation this morning and now it's turned into an argument about nothing and him telling me that I'm paranoid. Honestly feel like it's constant put downs of how I'm mentally ill or something. Gone from I love you and will do anything to change, to back to the same old crap in the space of 2 weeks.

Now there's a surprise...

Can you stop wondering whether he might change?

Instead channel your energy into the practicalities of leaving him.

@Weimlove - okay - so you’ve tried to talk to him about this and you know it doesn’t work. You can now give yourself permission to take the physical steps associated with leaving (ie going to your family’s home) and text him from there if need be. Sending a text may have seemed a bit mean to you but you know discussion doesn’t work for you. In the end, you're leaving him so he’s not going to be particularly happy however you do it so it isn’t worth getting hung-up on how you communicate this, except that I wouldn’t spend a lot of energy saying this is his fault. That will just generate arguments and be unproductive.

It's the typical cycle of abuse; Promises to be nice toreel you back in, then fall back into inevitable behaviour, then challenged he continues to the abusive person he has always been.

Hopefully you can accept that any insults & accusations are inevitable. Just plough on, get him out of your house & life asap.
Watch out for the "flying monkeys", he will cover his back & tell friends & family that you are drunk/mad/crazy... it doesn't matter,
do what you need to do & rebuild your life with people who care.