End marriage over housework

[MarySplitmas]

I can't quite believe I'm writing this and I have read hundreds of threads on this topic over the years yet here I am, considering divorce over housework.
Background - together 14 years, married 5, 2 kids aged 1 and 2, 2 dogs and renovating our house. Crippled by nursery fees but we just get by.
He works 50 hours a week. I went back to work 5 months ago to a new job that's WFH eventhough it's a huge pay cut (I used to be a teacher and worked more and earned more than him, but needed more work life balance) 30 which I do when kids are at nursery then I make up a few hours after they are in bed. Neither of us do any hobbies at the moment though we used to - life is just so hectic.
I had a shitty upbringing with a narc mother, 4(?) stepdads and some awful experiences. I think this is why when we first got to together I was happy to play house and do most of the housework as I just craved that calm family home and slipped straight into the stereotype, I just wanted a normal family.
Fast forward to now (after kids) and oh my goodness. The resentment is like a poison in me and I can hardly look at him. I feel like I do so much more in terms of cleaning, tidying, laundry, tidying and he 'just doesn't see it'. A few months ago I completely lost it and said he'd have to start pulling his weight when I'm back at work, he promised he would but nothing has changed. He didn't seem genuinely sorry either and I just feel like a nag whenever I ask him to do something.
He says he has no time and he's right, he's not in any way off playing football or watching TV or anything ever. But I do the chores with the kids on my day off or on the weekend while we're all here - holding the baby. If he's holding the baby or playing with them, he won't do anything else. He says that he does more garden and does all the house renovations which is true, but by gardening I mean mowing 3 times in the summer and when he's renovating, I take the kids out for the day so he can do it.
He has really low standards and wouldn't be bothered by dust or a dirty bathroom. He isn't bothered by mess. I don't touch his laundry.
Is this fixable as I feel like I can't see a way out?

@MarySplitmas it's not just the housework. It's the mental load. Its the thinking ahead about meals then buying food, remembering birthdays, appointments etc and replacing socks, towels and bedding that get used up over time. It's being "on" from the moment you wake up to the moment you go to sleep because if you aren't thinking of these things and planning and acting, then they don't get done.

Its asking him to pick up his wet towel from where he left it lying so that later on, when you hoover, you don't have to pick that up as well as dust and hoover.

Its asking him to engage with the kids so they aren't under you feet while you are taking an important call AND cooking dinner while you also watch the dogs don't escape the garden.

You have made this rod over your back yourself so you either undo it or you kick him out because he KNOWS he isn't contributing, he CHOOSES not to pitch in. Why should he? He works more and his hours are longer afterall... Total bullshit.

There are online 'resources' like letters you can write or tik tok vids you can send to him to help him understand what the mental load is but remember - he really does know deep down but likes things as they are.

That resentment will only fester and grow until you look at him and you feel nothing but disgust. Try to save the relationship now while you can and if he chooses not to carry more of the load, then you know you did your best.

Key bit here is 2 very young children. You're in the midst of the hardest years. Get a cleaner if you can, use money from joint account to fund it. If you've been together 14 years and building a family don't let the resentment blind you to the bigger picture. I get it I really do, but there are other solutions.

Well that setup didn't make economical sense. Why did he not drop his hours and look after DC's as you earn more?
Let me guess, you both claimed you wanted DC's, but only one of you wanted to be a parent? Likewise, both owning a house, but only one willing to look after it.
It's pretty obvious he doesn't see parenting as his job and would rather work earning less than do it. Now you know where he's at, it would be wise to get back into teaching as soon as possible. It's the ideal job for a parent anyway once DC's are school age.

@Opentooffers because I hated teaching after 10 years and wanted a new job. I also wanted to go part time to enjoy drop offs and pick ups with my kids. That was my choice. Absolutely not an ideal job for a parent in my case, after my first baby I was out of the house 7-7 and working all day on a Sunday. Never able to attend any kind of school event, holidays costing a fortune. We paid for longer nursery days then and he would do pick ups, sort dinner and have the baby on a Sunday so I could work.
It's not really about childcare it's the cleaning I have an issue with. I don't want him to watch the kids while I clean - I can do both I just wish he would too.

@FartSock5000 you are right about the mental load. He does do the online shop but always stuff forgotten because he doesn't check the list. He engages with the kids, he absolutely loves playing with them after work but then I feel like I'm just cleaning up while they play. If I ask him to clean while he plays with the kids he will but he only gets to see them for a couple of hours before bed so feel like he's missing out. Whereas as I'm holding the baby and getting the 2yo to ride along on the hoover when I do it, he doesn't think like that.

Have a look at the fair play system, there's a documentary and cards you can use to divide up the mental load and household labour so one person isn't managing the other. You agree a minimum standard for every task (that's important, you can't set a standard that he has to meet, it has to be agreed) and then each partner holds responsibility for conception, planning and execution of every single task.

This isn't your own fault by the way, many men are socialised not to notice or take responsibility for unpaid domestic labour and many women are socialised to think it's ultimately their responsibility to maintain and manage a home. Sharing that labour means fighting the tide, it's not easy and it's not the fault of an individual and their choices

Your kids are very young and you're in the eye of the storm.

I 100% would not end my marriage over housework alone and become a single parent. No way. It'd be 10 times harder than what you're doing now.

Men like this tend not to change and to be honest I think most men don’t have standards as high as their wives do when it comes to how tidy a house needs to be. I think divorce when you have 2 young kids is a bit extreme though.

Presumably if you divorced you would be doing all the housework for your part of the arrangement and he would still probably live in a shit tip whilst looking after the kids during his time.

I think this needs more discussion.

What about swapping roles?
So you play with the baby. You enjoy spending Time with them and You don’t feel guilty about it (Aka you’re not thinking you ought to be cleaning/tidying etc… instead if at the same ti e).
All because HE is the one responsible now to do cleaning! So you dint even have tte need to think about it.

he promised he would but nothing has changed

This isn't about housework. This is a general comment about how much he gives a shit about you feeling ok. This feels big because it is. The housework is a symptom; the problem is much broader, and is divorce-worthy: he doesn't respect you.

Fwiw, by experience, don’t give him the responsibility if doing the shopping if he isn’t the one to also cook.
Because if he ‘forgets’ some of the stuff, he isn’t impacted! He has no incentive to do it well or to make an effort.
And he can blame you for never being happy and always moaning when he is ‘just’ forgetting.

Is he able to reduce work hours at all?
Are you able to afford to hire a cleaner?

He of course shouldn’t leave it all to you, but it’s also good that he focuses on being with the kids when he is actually off work and with them. That’s very important for the children. But of course you need that too, and sounds as though you both just have too much on your plate at the moment.

He has no incentive to do it well or to make an effort

The incentive for adults to do household chores well is for the household to run effectively, in a way that works for all members. If that incentive isn't enough for him, he's happy for OP to struggle, as long as he doesn't have to. That's not a responsible adult.

I agree with a PP who said when your children are this age you are in the eye of the storm it is a very demanding time when you provide everything for them and they have little independence, so that alone is an incredibly stressful time period.

Is there any way he can reduce his 50 hours down? Does he really need to be doing 50 hours?

Re his standard of clean and tidy being less than yours he needs to understand he has children and is doing them a disservice by not pulling his weight and cleaning the house. He needs to learn from his mistakes like the online ordering, ask him if he repeatedly fucked up at work how many chances would his bosses give him? This is why you know it is just laziness. He knows he can default to you not realising you won't stay with someone when all they bring to the table is a pay packet and nothing more.

As @likepeddlesonabeach suggests I would get the Fair Play system and divvy up tasks using that so each person knows what they are responsible for.

Because it’s not about housework it’s about disrespect. It’s about lack of interest in communicating and being content with a situation you find intolerable.

It’s not housework, that’s a red herring!

Just to add quickly, another advantage of the fair play system is that you aren't carrying any part of the responsibilities that he is supposed to hold. If he's doing the online shop from a list that you've made, you're each doing part of the same task and that's how you end up involved in everything and overwhelmed with mental load. You also swap 'daily grind cards' which are the repetitive drudge tasks regularly so no one person spends a lifetime doing the laundry. So if he holds the 'dinner' card for the month then he's totally responsible for dinner, which means meal planning, knowing who eats what with dietary requirements, shopping, timing and cooking. You step away from all of it and don't do any of the steps or remind him to do them. If he messes it up then it's his problem to fix.

What’s the app called?

“Key bit here is 2 very young children. You're in the midst of the hardest years. Get a cleaner if you can, use money from joint account to fund it. If you've been together 14 years and building a family don't let the resentment blind you to the bigger picture. I get it I really do, but there are other solutions.”

This.

Maybe drop your standards OP? Sorry I know that’s hard but 2 full time jobs and a family isn’t ok.

Men like this tend not to change and to be honest I think most men don’t have standards as high as their wives do when it comes to how tidy a house needs to be.
I always shudder when I see things like this- out of the two of us I’m at home more because of commute but he is by far the better cleaner and at times goes over my clean or looks at something I’ve done and says ‘i must do that at the weekend’, not knowing I actually did it!! My friend gives out about her dh and I’ve seen his efforts and they’re much better than mine and I always want to say will you not just accept that he did it? Op you are at the hardest point, and nearly the only time in our marriage where we properly argued and but he’d about the other. As for the ‘he gets to play with them’ take it from someone who is coming out of any playing stage- let some of the cleaning go and do just sit down with them or totally devote time to playing, yes it made my skin crawl in terms of what I didn’t get done, but it’s worth it! At least One lot of fun- proper laugh from kids at least a day was a pact I always made

This sounds superb.

Agree, he need ring fenced things that are his responsibility and it needs to be communicated in writing (cards or a list) with times. If he knows what's expected and you leave it to him I bet it gets done.

The quid pro quo is that you don't "interfere". You don't get to tell him what to cook, he cooks what he fancies cooking, but it's his responsibility to make sure its suitable for everyone. If his bathroom cleaning isn't up to your standards then you suck it up until it's your turn next. (Which is good because it's mental load off you.)

If there are jobs that you like done a certain way, I'm afraid that's down to you.

Another advantage of the card/list idea is that kids can be involved in a few years time.

Also, label drawers. I found when the contents of drawers was kept in my head nothing ever got out away. As soon as there were labels everyone instinctively mucked in and stuff gravitated back to its place as if by magic.

...and you need to get back into teaching ASAP. The pension alone is like gold dust. Yes you hate it, but a lot of people hate their jobs.

I think this situation is easily fixed, I think he'll step up with the right system in place and you're at the worst time right now. It's going to get gradually easier.

I had a person helping us with the house cleaning for several years until the pandemic. After she stopped working for us I realised the low standards of my husband. This added to my long nagging list of why he is an unsuitable husband for me and will divorce him as soon as it is practical. You are definitely in a very hard period in the cycle but when the kids grow up they may also not be keen to help. Do not forget to teach them from an early age. Renovations are just a nightmare and with small kids very tough. You need to see if this side of him can be alleviated or masked with a cleaner but tbh marriages do break down for the day to day stuff. Resentment and anger builds up. For now see if a cleaner twice a week is possible. I would recommend cutting down on the budget somewhere else to hire one. This would be very worthy in your situation.

Yes except most if us will not give the same amount of importance to the same thing.

Compare
I got 95% of the shopping. Just ‘forgot’ the mince meat.
He made a huge effort, isn’t lazy just kissed one item on the list.

He got everything bar the mince meat. Now I can’t cook the meal I’ve planned. The dcs are due to go to their sports and I don’t have tte Time to prépare anything else than toast.
Suddenly, what looked like ok is looking like a pain.

Of course, you can argue that he should understand that not having one ingredient or whatever can make things harder. Just because his partner tells him so. In reality, it’s becoming much more obvious when you’ve been the one trying to get the dcs ready to go to their activity whilst cooking them a meal. The one who has to deal with the change of plan etc…
I now truly believe that most people need to experience that struggle to get it. (And no it’s not just about housework, it’s true about health and illness too fur example)

@GreenIsMyFavoriteColour Thanks for the label idea . I'm in the civil service now (pension ever better?!) and looking for promotion soon so don't think I'll go back to teaching. As soon as the kids are in school I'll go back to full time hours.

I hate this idea that ‘you are at the hardest point with two young dcs’.

Often, that comment is just the equivalent of

It’s hard now. But when tte dcs are older and easier, you won’t mind as much. And you’ll have git used to it anyway.

I’ve never quite understood why people think why, if someone didn’t get their acts together when things are hard, they would somehow make more if an effort when things are easier.