Just cannot get my head around my parents.

[Tanaphiru]

I suppose my first instinct here is that I'm asking the internet for permission to go no contact, which is something I know I can only decide for myself, but I just had to write down what my parents are like.

I'm fifty-one. My parents are still together and in their mid-seventies.

I swear - I SWEAR - I am not exaggerating when I say my father has only ever cared about one thing: the television. He has two states: watching television or wishing he wasn't doing whatever he was doing so that he could get back to watching television. Nobody visiting the house expects a word out of him and they just focus on my mother. When we were children (I have a brother) we never knew when his hair-trigger temper (which I no longer tolerate) would erupt and we'd get a smack across the face. But when I look back it was always for a non-sensical reason connected with him being in a situation he couldn't cope with, which was basically anything social. (This also meant it was usually in front of the whole family that we were hit, adding to the humiliation). As an adult I can see he is simply a breathtakingly weak man. He was also happy to hit (with full rage and force) family dogs - I'm talking a Dachsund and a Cocker Spaniel here - and yet he wouldn't DARE behave in such a way towards anyone or anything outside the four walls of our house.

So yes - my mother does all the talking. And yet she too basically has two states: talking to people as if she just caught them at the bottom of slide, or talking to them as if they just fell off the slide and bruised their knee, depending on what the conversation appears to her to require. It's beyond patronising. When she does it to strangers (shop staff etc.) you see them literally back away from her, yet I promise you she goes to bed certain she's an angel of goodness in the world.

She's one of those women who does things for people only for the thanks and the appreciation, and if the thanks doesn't come quickly enough or doesn't communicate enough admiration, someone's going to be getting brutally slagged off.

The talking-but-saying-nothing thing also obviously applies when I've tried to get out of her why she stood by and enabled our 'father' to be such a non-father and completely negative presence.

And yet all the bills were paid, there was always a roof over our heads etc. etc. etc. I've read that they're classed as 'emotionally immature parents'...but my goodness...I literally don't know them. Never miss them when they're not around. I only feel relief.

They seem to value not actually knowing anybody, including their children, in any kind of real way. I think perhaps they've found safety in that. I swear any chatty checkout girl/boy at the supermarket or stranger who asks to briefly share my table in a busy cafe makes for an atmosphere a thousand times more comfortable than they ever have.

If you've read this far, thank you. As I say, I just had to write this down.

Would they notice if you went NC and would it be of any incident for them?

sounds like you’re all better off not having contact, it’d not be a loss to you and why have that negativity in your life tbh

concentrate on the good relationships in your life

It took me until almost 40 to go NC with mother as only then did I realise that most of what she said about me was untrue. Best thing for my mental health ever. Good luck

@Bagpussdreams Thank you! I've literally not talked about any of this for about thirty years...I suppose all the theories have been percolating all this time :)

Your parents are of the generation that sincerely believed children should be seen and not heard, and yet there are so many examples of great parents from that generation too, so it boils down to individuals really. Sorry OP, it must have been hell growing up in such environment. You don't owe them anything, least of all affection or attention, just do what feels right for you x

It's really weird when you grow older and realise that your parents are not the centre of the universe (your universe) or any kind of real authority on anything at all - they're just two, quite normal, inadequate people. If you think about it anyone can have children. Including all the mediocre, shit, and weird people. It's odd when you realise your parents aren't special, and that you've been born to two people that your adult self wouldn't sit next to on a bus. But I think it's quite a common feeling for many people.

@EveryFrogHasItsDay The dogs are both long gone I'm afraid. I mean...what kind of man can look himself in the mirror the morning after hitting a DACHSUND. I'm just...

@MikeRafone That's what's weird about the 'transactional generosity' thing (her only doing things for people so she can bask in their gratitude) - one thing I know for sure is that my mother would have only one POV re. me going NC, and that would be her complete blamelessness and victimhood.

@goMe46 I think you're onto something with the 50 landmark - like it takes the mind a loooong time to go round in circles with this stuff and finally see that, no, undeniably, this was not normal or okay.

You explain it so well. Like you, it's dysfunction rather than abuse.

In their world, they made the family. They own the rights. You are the part they wrote. If you can play that part, unrewarding though it is, you can be in the "family".

I tried to be more than just the part my mother wrote for me, but she was instantly The VICTIM of me. My father also a weak man, reprimanded me for "hurting mum".

She/they set the terms and conditions of out relationship. I do not get to give feedback.The end. I must accept this or I. Disrespectful and "aggressive" if I try to discuss anything.

There is one perspective. One narrative. Theirs. They are living in a world which is almost the real world, but not quite.

So I get it, you're not alone dealing with family dynamics that are childish, avoidant, manipulative, defensive, dismissive et cetera

In the last 4 years ive waited for her/them to have some sort of epiphany and it hasn't happened. They just don't self reflect. But they do question my sanity.

I've learn that attempting to be heard is utterly futile. 😞

I recommend "just" backing away a bit more. Let them notice. Possibly if you cack away juuuust enough for them to ask, you might have the opportunity to say something that penetrates.

I do hope that you've got one good thing out of this and that you and your brother are close. He will understand the abuse you endured, and continue to do so. Go low/no contact and concentrate on the people in your life you have meaningful loving relationships with. Do not endure this anymore. You owe them nothing. You are free

Your dad sounds like a vile bully.
Your mum sounds like someone who's happy to go along with it (for whatever reason - ease? Blind love? Stupidity? It doesn't really matter) and also rather unpleasant.
They sound like shit parents. Not shit parents who've tried really hard to be good but failed for any number of reasons. Just shit don't-give-a-damn parents - basically the worst kind.
I'd walk away. You sound like you're better off going LC or NC and frankly it sounds like they'd barely notice (other than to give your mother something to bitch and moan about). You'll be happier for it.
Out of interest, do you have a relationship with your brother? What's his view (not that you need his approval, obviously. But always interesting to get a sibling perspective if they're a generally reasonable person).

Regarding what to do. The thing is, is that our parents are the only ones we have, it’s a unique relationship and however they hurt us it’s, never superficial, it cuts right to the marrow in our bones.

Our identities and sense of self are really shaped by them, and as kids our survival depends on us trusting them completely and believing they are almost god-like in everything they know.

It’s such a painful come-down to realise that they are very ordinary - or worse, our trust in them was misplaced and undeserved, and our sense of self and identity was totally screwed up by their inept parenting. I think the hardest thing to let go of is the hope that somewhere, hiding within them, is the amazing person you thought they were when you were a kid, and if you just talked with them, reasoned with them, maybe bribe or even punish them in some way, they might become that better person.

But it’s futile. People get more set in their ways the longer they live.

So that is the crux of it. The benefits of going NC is that you don’t have to be ‘set back’ by seeing them. Also, it doesn’t need to be forever thing. Maybe you could avoid them until you are able to be totally accepting of who they actually are.

An alternative is that you could define very clear boundaries about what you will and won’t stick around to accept, and be open and clear about communicating this (eg- I will be coming around, but won’t come if the television is on), and that might lead to going NC if they are unable to accept terms you feel comfortable with.

Good luck with whatever you do.

@ChanelNo19EDT In their world, they made the family. They own the rights. You are the part they wrote. If you can play that part, unrewarding though it is, you can be in the "family".

If you'd written this on paper I'd have underlined it a thousand times with a ruler :)

It seems these people require their children to be part and parcel of their own coping mechanisms, and resistance results in the most dreadful of existential tantrums.

What's scary is that my brother seems to have done the classic thing of marrying his mother - I've had to watch them both continue the pattern and completely mess up my niece.

And yet...disastrous as that is, I guess it helps to show that what we're dealing with is mostly just small-minded idiocy - it's only because we had nothing to compare it to as children that it took hold - and we need to refuse to be damaged by it.

We’ve got a couple of crackers as well, they’ve cast a long shadow over me and my siblings, and just when you think you’re in the sun, you realise it’s still unrolling. For example, my brother has recently revealed he’s been domestically abused. He’s spent so much time trying not to be our father he’s become our mother instead. The dissonance of twenty odd years of being to blame for everything really does set you up nicely for another few decades of saying ‘it must be me.’

Can I ask, à propos of nothing much other than interest, why now, OP? What was the incident that made you realise you’ve had enough?

I agree with this so much if my mother hadn't had my foot soldier father to back her up no matter defensive she was being, then I might have been allowed to be a person that she had some curiosity about. My father might have empowered himself rather than getting his "power" from back up a defensive woman with a fragile ego.

I’ve always said my parents had children because it was expected of them, not because they actually wanted them. Similar situation to you. Walk away. They might not even notice. 🤪

I have a neighbour who is 90yrs old.When I first moved here 3 yrs ago I thought she was a nice little old lady and was appalled that her daughter who lives an hour away hardly visits.Now having been on the receiving end of her demanding bullying behaviour I understand her daughters reasons for staying away.She badmouths all her neighbours whose goodwill she has used up over the years.Age is not an excuse for manipulative and entitled behaviour..

Interesting comments about the patronising way of dealing with people. My mother not only completely believes that she is a LOVELY person, but that she is superior. She takes the Parent role in any dynamic (the games people play, transactional analysis) so that forces me in to the child role. I've been nc for a while now. It's hard for me to be adult to her Parent as it's triggering.
I'm 53 but she cannot let go of the superiority of being The Parent in any interaction, so I as her actual child have no hope.

We will never be adult : adult

What does it mean to talk to someone as if they're at the bottom of a slide? I've never heard that before and can't quite imagine what it means.

@ChanelNo19EDT One of the most bizarre, messed-up aspects of all this became clear when I was sitting next to my father on a plane. One of the cabin crew and I were happily having one of those piece-by-piece conversations you have when one of you is working and has to keep coming and going, just the usual chit-chat, but I gradually became intensely aware of how uncomfortable it was making my father. He is simply not capable of engaging with people in this way. And it suddenly dawned on me that, all my life, my being functional had shined a spotlight on his being dysfunctional, and he RESENTED it. He took it, again, as a kind of cheekiness on my part.

@SallyWD :) I just mean she talks to people like they're children.

Please don't generalise. Many of us are nothing of the sort.

Yes, small minded idiocy but from haughty emotionally vacant automatons. I must check out that film you mention.

Thanks for posting, I really relate. For years I felt ashamed of how angry I felt because they tried, blah blah blah and I did what yr brother did, repeated the patterns, walked in to a relationship with a man who considered himself the judge of how I felt.

I left of course as these things are worse in a relationship, but he was quite like my mum. There was one perspective, his.

My brother sometimes cognitively understands why I'm so let down by the automatons, but even so, emotionally he's annoyed with me that I won't just buckle under, play the part.

@Elfidela1980 I can only describe it as having thought about it enough to have run out of excuses for them. I don't think you can exaggerate just how deeply as a child you absorb your parents' behaviour as normal and unquestionable, and I think you can know for years/decades, intellectually, that they've been harmful without being 'on your own side' enough to TRULY stick up for yourself. I hope that makes sense.

Oh I hear you wrt your functioning shining a light on his dysfunction. The way my parents handle this is to dole out labels. I've collected so many. Eg, it's not that my mother hadn't the patience to listen to me, it was that I was "emotional". It wasn't that she hadn't the empathy to show me a bit of support, it was that I was "sensitive".
It's not that she won't engage in a conversation, o, it's that im "aggressive" for trying to communicate!
On and on it goes. Many examples.
My whole life, I never really noticed cognitively that my pain proves I'm unhinged and difficult while hers also proves that I'm unhinged and difficult.
I felt that injustice for decades without putting the double standard into words.