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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Unemployed Dh now signed off for a year- fed up and skint!

319 replies

Stressedgiraffe · 14/12/2023 19:16

Dh has been unemployed for over 9 months. He's been applying for remote work but not getting any where. I think he's now given up as he has diabetes and side effects .
He was on jsa but has now had a meeting with the disability person who has signed him off as unfit to work.
But he's capable of working. He spends all his time on the computer. He walks the dogs for miles, potters in the garden etc.
He's late 50s so I think he's subtly retiring
But we can't afford it.
I work ft and can just afford rent bills and food. There is no spare money. We have spent our savings.
We have teenagers who want to go out with friends and spend money.
I'm starting to feel really resentful of someone I see 24/7 who now has a cushy life.
How do I stop feeling like this?

OP posts:
VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia · 14/12/2023 23:22

JayJayEl · 14/12/2023 22:48

This was my initial thought, too. But I think the PP actually means that the teens can earn money for themselves, to fund their own hobbies and activities?

Funding activities is the job of the parents. I didn't work until I was eighteen, my parents wouldn't allow it.

VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia · 14/12/2023 23:24

adriftabroad · 14/12/2023 22:55

I babysat
Worked in a taxi company on a Saturday
At 17 at M&S
mince pie factory before uni.

DD 15 teaches summer schools with me.

All good. No mine involved.

On what fucking planet does anyone allow a child to supervise other children without an adult in the building?

Hitshow · 14/12/2023 23:25

Sounds like he is happy to ease into retirement while you do the lifting.

MariaLuna · 14/12/2023 23:26

I do know he's ill. I am sympathetic I don't ask him to do any housework or mental load. He walks the dogs twice a day and that's it. He can tinker with his computers, nap, watch TV etc but he did all that while wfh as well nothing has changed .

I'm sorry you're in this situation. Must be so hard.

You sound worn down and accepting of your situation.

It really does not have to be like that. You are giving your kids the worst possible outcome for their future by showing them the present - as in now, today, how life is, not a fucking present for Christmas.

I'd love to live a life like he does. However, it doesn't pay the rent or put food on the table.

Who brought you up in life to be a skivvy? Who will take care of you when you burn out?

adriftabroad · 14/12/2023 23:26

It is my school. I am in the room.

Are you OK?

porridgeisbae · 14/12/2023 23:28

Brain fog may score some points but it would have to be as a result of a mental health or cognitive disorder and not brought about by physical disability.

It can be brought about by a physical condition TBF maybe. But they would have to have an effect on his cognitive function.

I am out-of-date exCAB, it used to be that the person claiming ESA had to attend an appointment, for which a letter was sent in the post. Then they would have to travel there to be assessed. Did any such thing happen?

Yep, he will've had to provide monthly 'fit notes' from his doctor and the wait for an assessment can be some time. I did all this for a loved one. OP would've presumably been told about this wait/process as it's not immediate. (Our assessment was over the phone and I think a lot are done that way now. The person's medical evidence provides the extra confirmation for the assessor.)

Unless he'd been secretly waiting for his assessment and further wait for an outcome, without telling her.

AnneElliott · 14/12/2023 23:30

You can get PIP for diabetes - my friend has. Depends on the impact of the side effects I assume. He should definitely be trying to do that and not leaving all the burden to you.

What about remote jobs if he can use the computer?

adriftabroad · 14/12/2023 23:32

VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia · 14/12/2023 23:22

Funding activities is the job of the parents. I didn't work until I was eighteen, my parents wouldn't allow it.

So when we all went to university/our DCs go to university, they should not work.
Because your parents said so?
50 years ago?

Odd.

Ohthatsfabulousdarling · 14/12/2023 23:33

If they've now assessed him for limited work related activity and now signed him off as not needing to work that's about £400 more on your claim each month I think. Might be worth checking with him

I don't have diabetes, but do have neuropathy in my foot- related to a back condition. Its horrible. Can feel more like burning and makes life very difficult so I do feel for him, is he telling you the whole picture? As I don't know if it's as easy as having diabetes and neuropathy and being signed off work for a year.

DotAndCarryOne2 · 14/12/2023 23:49

MercanDede · 14/12/2023 23:06

Neuropathy does cause sensory and cognitive deficits. So yes, he could qualify under item 11 for tremors/risk of falls/confusion caused by neuropathy that require him to make journeys accompanied (if that were hypothetically true for the severity of his condition).

Edited

Peripheral Neuropathy is a physical condition - damage to the nerves in the extremities, the physical effects of which would be assessed by the descriptors in section 12 of PIP mobility - moving around. The guidelines for DWP assessors are clear that for any of the descriptors in section 11 to apply, the issues with planning and following a journey must originate in a mental health condition, as there can be no overlap in the award of points for physical effects already assessed in section 12. In addition the claimant must be in receipt of second line, consultant led mental health care.

PN causes anxiety and depression and that would be the effect assessed at section 11, and possibly brain fog, but again the threshold for scoring significant points is very high and the impairment would have to be overwhelming and treated by secondary care, not GP led.

Shantayyoustaysashayaway · 14/12/2023 23:55

Your DH needs to apply for ESA. They will assess him & & while the process is on going he will have to provide sick notes & he will be put into either income based (still ok for work) or the (higher) support group which is contributed based (pay your ni) At the same time he needs to apply for PIP. When he's filling the form out he needs to do it as he's having the worse day ever. If he's unsure make an appointment with the CAB, they are very helpful. You can also see if your eligible for carers allowance. The CAB will also tell you if there are any other benefits you may be entitled to. I know it feels totally overwhelming but hopefully you will get the help you need.

NaughtybutNice77 · 14/12/2023 23:57

Without more details it's hard to say what's going on but theres a good chance it's his MH rather than the neuropathy that's causing this behaviour. If you believe he wants to change and you could support him to do so it's worth a stab....do you still love him? If youre answering yes I love him but I'm not in love with him, we all know how that one ends! I'd guess he has ED too. Have you found ways to feel physically and emotionally close. If your effectively a carer or team mate I cant see your marriage lasting. Make it clear though that it's his attitude not his diabetes that's cant life with.i bet if he had terminal cancer youd wash and feed him.

LaurieStrode · 14/12/2023 23:59

adriftabroad · 14/12/2023 23:14

The poor man.

The poor OP. Saddled with a 50-something do-nought.

I'd be packing his bags for him.

MercanDede · 14/12/2023 23:59

DotAndCarryOne2 · 14/12/2023 23:49

Peripheral Neuropathy is a physical condition - damage to the nerves in the extremities, the physical effects of which would be assessed by the descriptors in section 12 of PIP mobility - moving around. The guidelines for DWP assessors are clear that for any of the descriptors in section 11 to apply, the issues with planning and following a journey must originate in a mental health condition, as there can be no overlap in the award of points for physical effects already assessed in section 12. In addition the claimant must be in receipt of second line, consultant led mental health care.

PN causes anxiety and depression and that would be the effect assessed at section 11, and possibly brain fog, but again the threshold for scoring significant points is very high and the impairment would have to be overwhelming and treated by secondary care, not GP led.

The guidelines for DWP assessors are clear that for any of the descriptors in section 11 to apply, the issues with planning and following a journey must originate in a mental health condition

No, it does not have to originate in a mental health condition. Autism, ADHD, Post Concussion Syndrome, Traumatic Brain Injury, Stroke, Early Onset Dementia, Blindness, Significantly Sight Impaired, off the top of my head are all physical conditions that can be awarded points under descriptor 11.

The mental health condition requirement only applies to 11b and 11e

Towwanthustice · 15/12/2023 00:10

Diabetes isn't just neuropathy, it's blured vision, fatigue, which can lead to low moods etc.. and walking problems. (Lots more). Low mood may make him irritable and unable to communicate in a work place.
You can be signed off for a year and he doesn't have to see anyone regularly.
I'd suggest pip and then appeal as it takes at least a year. He will be getting around £250 a fortnight ATM though.

MercanDede · 15/12/2023 00:17

DotAndCarryOne2 · 14/12/2023 23:49

Peripheral Neuropathy is a physical condition - damage to the nerves in the extremities, the physical effects of which would be assessed by the descriptors in section 12 of PIP mobility - moving around. The guidelines for DWP assessors are clear that for any of the descriptors in section 11 to apply, the issues with planning and following a journey must originate in a mental health condition, as there can be no overlap in the award of points for physical effects already assessed in section 12. In addition the claimant must be in receipt of second line, consultant led mental health care.

PN causes anxiety and depression and that would be the effect assessed at section 11, and possibly brain fog, but again the threshold for scoring significant points is very high and the impairment would have to be overwhelming and treated by secondary care, not GP led.

The guidelines for DWP assessors are clear that for any of the descriptors in section 11 to apply, the issues with planning and following a journey must originate in a mental health condition

Not for any/all of them, only b and e

Here are the guidelines in full to refresh your memory:
“Activity 11 – planning and following journeysThis activity considers a claimant’s ability to plan and follow the route of a journey. It is useful separately to consider:

  • ability to plan the route of a journey in advance
  • ability to leave the home and embark on a journey and
  • ability to follow the intended route once they leave the home

This activity is designed for limitations on mobility deriving from mental health, cognitive and sensory impairments, whereas activity 12 is generally designed for limitations from physical problems. Cognitive impairment includes orientation (understanding of where, when and who the person is), attention, concentration and memory. Any issues with the ability to stand and then move are not applicable under activity 11, but under activity 12.

Regarding falls, consideration must be given to how the risk of falling manifests itself. Ordinarily the risk to a claimant’s safety arising from a physical inability to move safely would be applicable under activity 12. However, where the fall arises as a result of a sensory or cognitive impairment (for example, seizures associated with loss of consciousness) the risk of the fall to a claimant’s safety would be applicable under activity 11. When assessing which descriptor might apply, consideration also needs to be given to any risks to an individual arising during the “recovery” period (for example, any post ictal confusion).

11d or 11f only apply where a claimant could not reliably make their way along a route without an accompanying person, assistance dog or orientation aid. The presence of another person out of preference, is not sufficient.
Examples provided in this guidance are for illustrative purposes only and are not designed to be exhaustive.

Descriptor A (0 points): Can plan and follow the route of a journey unaidedWithin the assessment criteria, the ability to perform an activity unaided means without either the use of aids or appliances; or help from another person.

Descriptor B (4 points): Needs prompting to be able to undertake any journey to avoid overwhelming psychological distress to the claimantThis descriptor applies to claimants where undertaking any journey causes overwhelming psychological distress (OPD) and where they need prompting (‘prompting’ means reminding, encouraging or explaining by another person) on the majority of days to be able to undertake the journey. In practice, this is only likely to apply in the circumstance where someone needs prompting to set off on the journey, but would not need another person whilst on the journey itself.
‘Any journey’ means that in order to satisfy the descriptor on a day the person must require prompting when undertaking every single journey on that day to avoid OPD. If the person can manage to leave the home to make a journey once without prompting then on that day the descriptor is not satisfied. For example, a claimant who can make visits to the local shop or collect their children from school without prompting on most days will not satisfy this descriptor, even if they’re unable to undertake other journeys without prompting during the same day. However, being able to start a journey at night time only is not considered to be undertaking a journey to an acceptable standard. Therefore, in these instances, descriptor E may be more appropriate.
OPD means distress related to a mental health condition or intellectual or cognitive impairment resulting in a severe anxiety state in which the symptoms are so severe that the person cannot undertake a journey without being overwhelmed. The threshold is a very high one - a claimant who, without prompting, would be left feeling anxious, worried or emotional does not meet it. OPD may occur in conditions such as generalised anxiety disorder, panic disorder, dementia or agoraphobia.
Illustrative example:
The claimant becomes panicked before any journey and they’re only able to get out of the door if someone provides encouragement and reassurance that there are no dangers or threats as a result of going outside. However, once they’re out they’re able to follow a route independently without help. They would therefore satisfy mobility 1B.
If, however, a claimant can undertake any single journey on the majority of days in the required period without prompting, for example, regular visits to the local shop to collect the daily paper, or regularly collect their children from school without support then they’ll not satisfy this descriptor, even if they’re unable to set off on other journeys without prompting during the required period.

Descriptor C (8 points): Cannot plan the route of a journeyThis descriptor is most likely to apply to claimants with cognitive or developmental impairments who cannot formulate a plan for their journey in advance using simple materials, such as bus route maps, phone apps or timetables. The route that is being planned is unfamiliar – one does not need to plan a familiar route.

Descriptor D (10 points): Cannot follow the route of an unfamiliar journey without another person, assistance dog or orientation aid.‘Follow the route” means make one’s way along a route to a destination. This involves more than just navigation of the route; it also includes making your way along the route reliably. Safety should be considered in respect of risks that relate to making ones’ way along a route (for example, tendency to wander into the road, inability to safely cross a road or risk of self-harm due to overwhelming psychological distress caused). For example, a claimant with a severe visual or profound hearing impairment may be at a substantial risk from traffic when crossing a road.
This descriptor is most likely to apply to claimants with cognitive, sensory or developmental impairments, or a mental health condition that results in overwhelming psychological distress, who cannot, due to their impairment, work out where to go, follow directions, follow a journey safely or deal with minor unexpected changes in their journey when it is unfamiliar. A claimant who suffers overwhelming psychological distress whilst on the unfamiliar journey and who needs to be accompanied to overcome the overwhelming psychological distress may satisfy descriptor 1d.
A person should only be considered able to follow an unfamiliar journey if they would be capable of using public transport – the assessment of which should focus on ability rather than choice.
The route has already been planned. Any significant diversions from that route are therefore irrelevant – it is no longer the planned route. However, making one’s way around road works, or a change of train platform, road closure or train cancellation (i.e. minor diversions) are part of being able to follow the route of a journey. For example a profoundly deaf person may need a person to accompany them to relay information, such as changes to a journey, due to minor disruptions.
The descriptor refers to “an unfamiliar journey” rather than “any unfamiliar journey”. Accordingly, claimants can satisfy the descriptor by showing that they typically need to be accompanied by another person or an assistance dog or to use an orientation aid on the majority of days when undertaking unfamiliar journeys (it’s not necessary to show that they need such support for every possible unfamiliar journey on most days).
Orientation aids are specialist aids. Ordinary satellite navigation systems such as those found in mobile phones do not count as specialist. Maps or lists of directions do not count as specialist. A long cane (as used by person with sight impairment) is an example of a specialist orientation aid (NB – a symbol cane, which is used to signal to others the person has some sight impairment, is not an orientation aid as it does not actually help the person orient themselves).

Descriptor E (10 points): Cannot undertake any journey because it would cause overwhelming psychological distress to the claimantThis descriptor applies to claimants where undertaking any journey on the majority of days causes overwhelming psychological distress (OPD) despite being aided.
‘Any journey’ means that in order to satisfy the descriptor on any particular day the person must not be able to manage to undertake a single journey. If the person can manage to leave the home to undertake a journey once then on that day the descriptor is not satisfied, even if they’re unable to undertake other journeys during the same day. Being able to complete a journey at night time only however, is not considered to be completing a journey to an acceptable standard. Therefore, in these instances, this descriptor may be appropriate.
OPD means distress related to a mental health condition or intellectual or cognitive impairment resulting in a severe anxiety state in which the symptoms are so severe that the person cannot undertake a journey without being overwhelmed. The threshold is a very high one - a claimant who is anxious, worried or emotional does not meet it.
This descriptor is likely to apply to claimants with severe mental health conditions (for example, severe agoraphobia, panic disorder or psychotic illness associated with severe paranoia) or cognitive impairments (for example, a person with dementia who may become very agitated and distressed when leaving home, to the extent that journeys outside the home can no longer be made either at all, or on the majority of days, even with the support of another person).
A claimant who satisfies 1E cannot also satisfy 1F. If they cannot undertake a single journey on the majority of days due to overwhelming psychological distress, then 1E will be the applicable descriptor, even if there are occasions when they could follow a familiar route, if accompanied.

Descriptor F (12 points): Cannot follow the route of a familiar journey without another person, an assistance dog or an orientation aid.‘Follow the route’ means make one’s way along a route to a destination. This involves more than just navigation of the route. Safety should be considered in respect of risks that relate to making ones’ way along a route (for example, tendency to wander into the road, inability to safely cross a road or risk of self-harm due to overwhelming psychological distress caused). For example, a claimant with a severe visual or profound hearing impairment may be at a substantial risk from traffic when crossing a road.
The familiar route does not need to be planned – it is familiar. Any significant diversions from that route are therefore irrelevant – it is no longer the familiar route. However, making one’s way around road works, or a change of train platform (i.e. minor diversions) are part of being able to follow the route of a journey.
The descriptor refers to “a familiar journey” rather than “any familiar journey”. Accordingly, claimants can satisfy the descriptor by showing that they typically need to be accompanied by another person or an assistance dog or to use an orientation aid on the majority of days when undertaking familiar journeys (it’s not necessary to show that they need such support for every possible familiar journey on most days).
This descriptor is most likely to apply to claimants with cognitive, sensory or developmental impairments, or a mental health condition that results in overwhelming psychological distress, who cannot, due to their impairment, work out where to go, follow directions, follow a journey safely or deal with unexpected changes in their journey, even when the journey is familiar. A claimant who suffers overwhelming psychological distress whilst on the familiar journey and who needs to be accompanied to overcome the overwhelming psychological distress may satisfy descriptor 1F.
A claimant who is actively suicidal or who is at substantial risk of exhibiting violent behaviour and who needs to be accompanied by another person to prevent them harming themselves or others when undertaking a journey would meet this descriptor. In cases such as this, the HP should look for evidence of suicidal thoughts and/or behaviour. In cases of violent behaviour there must be evidence that they’re unable to control their behaviour and that being accompanied by another person, who can intervene if necessary, reduces a substantial risk of the person committing a violent act.
Orientation aids are specialist aids. Ordinary satellite navigation systems such as those found in mobile phones do not count as specialist. Maps or lists of directions do not count as specialist. A long cane (as used by person with sight impairment) is an example of a specialist orientation aid (NB – a symbol cane, which is used to signal to others the person has some sight impairment, is not an orientation aid as it does not actually help the person orient themselves).”

OnlyOpenMouthToChangeFeet · 15/12/2023 00:42

Sidebeforeself · 14/12/2023 19:40

The DWP does not have targets for refusing benefits.

They don't admit they do....

OnlyOpenMouthToChangeFeet · 15/12/2023 00:47

lesdeluges · 14/12/2023 19:59

Do assessors work on Sundays?

Ask DH for the paperwork on the decision to sign him off, and the medical reports.

That's for starters.

I've been disabled and claiming for 26 years, and have several disabled friends. Never known them to work a Sunday yet.

OnlyOpenMouthToChangeFeet · 15/12/2023 00:54

InefficientProcess · 14/12/2023 20:09

If a woman came on saying the DEP assessor had called her and told her at the end of the assessment that she’s ’signed off’ work for a year, people would be asking pointed questions.

This isn’t the language of ESA. And being in the WRA does come with having to see a work coach regularly.

Also, I've never had an assessment where I was told the result. The report from the assessment by a health professional has to be forwarded to a Decision Maker at the DWP, who in turn make any decisions and subsequent notifications regarding the claim.

So he would not speak to an assessor and be told have a year off! Plus decisions always come in writing.

VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia · 15/12/2023 00:58

adriftabroad · 14/12/2023 23:26

It is my school. I am in the room.

Are you OK?

I was referring to your first item: "I babysat".

I took it as obvious from DD 15 teaches summer schools with me that I wasn't referring to your summer school.

I again ask, on what planet is it acceptable to leave a child in charge of other children without an adult in the premises. It wouldn't be babysitting if there was an adult around.

OnlyOpenMouthToChangeFeet · 15/12/2023 01:00

Robb6666 · 14/12/2023 20:29

Go for pip £691 every 4 weeks

Only for enhanced rate care and mobility. And walking miles, the latter is certainly out of the question!

MercanDede · 15/12/2023 01:01

VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia · 15/12/2023 00:58

I was referring to your first item: "I babysat".

I took it as obvious from DD 15 teaches summer schools with me that I wasn't referring to your summer school.

I again ask, on what planet is it acceptable to leave a child in charge of other children without an adult in the premises. It wouldn't be babysitting if there was an adult around.

Planet Earth?
I babysat from age 12.
15 isn’t too young to babysit.

VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia · 15/12/2023 01:05

adriftabroad · 14/12/2023 23:32

So when we all went to university/our DCs go to university, they should not work.
Because your parents said so?
50 years ago?

Odd.

Your reading comprehension leaves a lot to be desired.

University students are 18 and over. Of course I worked at uni.

I love your ageist assumption that I must be in my late sixties or seventies. I'm mid-forties.

If anything, I would have thought that child labour, particularly during school terms, would be less acceptable now than it was in the 90s, not more. Kids should be able to be kids, not sent out to work if they want to afford Scout subs.

Charlize43 · 15/12/2023 01:09

Did you actually say how old he is?

If he's over 50, he'll struggle to get employed. Ageism is rife.

I had a relatively good office job before the Covid pandemic but was then made redundant (at 54) but for the last 3 years the only work I can get in low waged casual work.

MercanDede · 15/12/2023 01:12

VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia · 15/12/2023 01:05

Your reading comprehension leaves a lot to be desired.

University students are 18 and over. Of course I worked at uni.

I love your ageist assumption that I must be in my late sixties or seventies. I'm mid-forties.

If anything, I would have thought that child labour, particularly during school terms, would be less acceptable now than it was in the 90s, not more. Kids should be able to be kids, not sent out to work if they want to afford Scout subs.

Not everyone has that luxury. When you have a disabled parent, you are a young carer and often do have to self-fund extras.