What is your view/experience on men being providers and SAHM (traditional)

[amanda2k4]

I have friends in the USA where it seems to be more common for the male to go to work full time, pay all the bills, the woman will ensure that there is a hot meal ready/peaceful life & clean house/children are looked after. I even know women that work full time and do not contribute to the bills, but there man still expects the traditional wife role duties. This seems to work well. I mean the woman get to spend there money on what they like... sounds good to me! lol however I always wonder at what expense does this come at? Is the husband an a$$hole? kicks off if the house is dirty / it is expected you do not socialise with friends etc..

I am interested in where people sit with this? Would you love to be a SAHM if your husband could afford - but run the risk of always relying on him for everything OR would you much prefer contributing your fair share and splitting up household chores and going to work?!

I see more and more of these posts where men keep complaining they want a "traditional woman" and they go to work 5 days a week to provide and ensure she has a roof over her head, all the bills are paid, she can stay home, but seem to expect a hot meal/no complaining/to do what they want outside of work in return - I mean is that fair enough? - would that work for you??

Emotive, silly language used.

Not at all, we see it on here sometimes and it's absolutely awful, women completely trapped with their abusers, with no way of leaving as they have no money of their own. It doesn't get much worse than that.

I know it doesn't always pan out that way, but it's definitely a potential downside and can happen.

Perhaps, but the general concept is correct. Most SAHPs do leave themselves financially vulnerable and to acknowledge that shouldn't be considered an attack on them. Obviously some SAHPs are independently financially secure and many others will be just fine with the setup. That's great. But to shut down discussion about the downsides and vulnerabilities of being a SAHP is to do all women a disservice and can surely only come from a place of insecurity.

Exactly, kudos to those who have found a good man and managed to be a happy SAHM

Kudos? No. As I said upthread, it is pure luck. You can be very picky dating, know someone for years before living together then live together for years before marriage, do your homework and test the relationship, wait to have children, check for no red flags at all, do everything "right" by the generally agreed wisdom. And then, suddenly behaviour can change. It is well documented that many men become abusive only when children are born. Or the man decides after decades of a woman sacrificing her career to raise their children to trade her in for a younger model and if she has been a SAHP she is left destitute with no means of earning a decent salary, no comfortable retirement coming up, while he waltzes off. It happens ALL the time, the men whom "nobody would ever have expected to do this", the so-called "family men" who are "100% trustworthy and share their values on family". Until they decide they don't. Unless your husband is very wealthy indeed then being financially reliant on him is a huge gamble. It is a leap of faith not a rational choice. It may work out fine. But it also may well not.

Exactly, kudos to those who have found a good man and managed to be a happy SAHM (this thread proves it) problem is more often than not (and there's hundreds of threads on MN to prove it) men will change after the first child, become entitled or abusive and then women will feel stuck with nowhere to go.

I think there probably are a lot of couples who it works well for and are happy, they are just less likely to be on mumsnet starting threads about how good their life is as why would they. We hear the bad accounts from SAHMs being treated badly by partners because they’ve come on to mumsnet asking for advice giving a more skewed view.

Saying that though, there are a lot of horribly abusive men out there. I have encountered a lot more men who I would advise women never to be a SAHM with, than good men. Both our fathers were arseholes, my own brother and one of my partners brothers have followed in our fathers footsteps and their wives have shit lives.

I’m sure there are men who become abusive after kids, but in lots of cases I know of, the red flags were there pre kids and women for whatever reason ignore them. Men definitely need to be better, but women need to start rejecting these men.

Despite my own relationship with a good man, and me being a SAHM working well for us, I would have reservations if my daughter told me in years to come that she was giving up work to be a SAHM. Not because it can’t be lovely and worthwhile, but because there are so many crap men who, may appear good, but once you scratch the surface their misogyny and lack of respect for women shows.

I think @amanda2k4 's friend and her husband's relationship show exactly why having such stark divisions of labour is not a good idea. As far as I'm concerned it's better for both the man and the woman if they divide up the paying work and the unpaid work evenly. It gives both more freedom and understanding of the other's life. It is also better for the wider society, the more men who take on a significant share of the unpaid work the more balanced everyone's work/life balance becomes.

Someone mentioned right at the top what happens if you have a disabled child. I have a colleague with two disabled children, both her and her husband both work PT (different days) so they can share the care. That's surely far better than being trapped as an unpaid carer all your life.

90% of my american friends work full time too - but there husbands pay all of the bills! the women pay maybe the netflix and electric bill for example. I notice the man makes most of the decisions though, and very much wants the woman to do the tradional women duties eg run the house, cook, clean. these are some women without kids too - that get to keep all there money, but the men are fairly controlling i notice

I agree with this that it would be really scary - but other people on this thread have said the married woman would walk away with half?

Sorry but please can i marry your husband 🫠 just reading this has made me feel calmer...

Errr, no. Plenty of American women don't do this, and plenty of European women do. It provides no protection for women who allow themselves to be financially dependent on a husband in the UK though unless he is exceptionally wealthy, for the reasons outlined above. The US system is at least more robust in enforcing child maintenance properly and at not insulting (although still not high enough) rates. But marriage does NOT protect you from financial hardship properly unless your husband is a multi-millionnaire, in the US or UK.

I’m a SAHM but DH pays me to do it, I do a few hours of admin a week for him but 90% of my time is household/family etc.

Im very well financially covered should he leave me for a 25 year old from the office 😆

I agree with this that it would be really scary - but other people on this thread have said the married woman would walk away with half?

Usually yes that is the starting point. Maybe more if children still under 18. Many men wait and act the perfect husband until the kids are 18 because they know this then leave the woman for someone half her age. And then what? She gets half of the house equity and his pension, if she is lucky (many men manage to hide assets despite the law). But that usually isn't enough to buy a mortgage free house or fund a decent retirement. He has a well-paid career so uses his half to put down a deposit on a new lovely home because he can raise a new, large mortgage alone. She has to find work very fast, usually low paid or at a low level even if she previously had a career due to the CV gap and lack of recent experience. She is now at an age where promotions and career development is harder to achieve. She can only buy a very modest home, probably moving miles from friends and family with the deposit and mortgage she can obtain. She hasn't enough saved for a comfortable retirement even with the share of pension assets from divorce and with low paid work now can't save sufficiently to achieve that. Her ex-husband meanwhile can now focus on paying lots into his pension, given any child maintenance is a pittance compared to the actual cost of raising children. The woman meanwhile usually has the children lost of the time so has even less freedom to work with nobody to share childcare or split childcare expenses with. No social life unless she pays a babysitter. The man, however, can live the life of riley, pay a pittance if anything at all in maintenance, work and socialise whenever he likes and quickly recover his finances, still top up his pension for early retirement, etc.

This is too often the pattern. Totally avoidable if you have joint assets of say £10m+, in which case you should be fine as long as you aren't screwed over financially in a divorce in a very bad way with assets undisclosed. But for people in a normal range of wealth: i.e. people with maybe a few hundred
£ up to £1m in equity in a house and similar in pensions, the assets you'll get in a divorce are not sufficient to fund you for the rest of your life let alone also raising children, so you need your own income... and your ability to earn that, for too many SAHMs, is what you have sacrificed. Not all - as I said upthread. Some have qualifications and skills that mean they'd be able to go back to well-paid work whenever they needed to. But many do not, and it comes back to bite them. And they are always shocked, the ones who are very self-righteous and say "My DH would never do that" are the most at risk and the ones who get blindsided because they think it could never happen to them.

@Pashazade Yours and your husbands marriage sounds so ideal. It is so nice to see that ideal is, in fact, someone's reality.

OP honestly I don't know. I work part time (3 days/week) in a job that I like, but I miss my little kids. I do 80% of the childcare/housework and 100% of decision-making, planning etc. Husband does stuff when asked. I think he would like to proudly provide for his family, but he doesn't earn enough. Equally, I want to be in a position to look after myself if need be. My mum and sister were single mums so I guess that's always on my mind.

I'm happy for SAHMs that are acknowledged for the work they do. For me, I've thrown myself into being a mum far more than I threw myself into any career. Career just isn't that important to me and couldn't compare to being a mum, so I'm lucky I've got a job that allows for this.

I find it really interesting that there are men out there that bring in 100% of the salary (not specifically in your case) and still let the woman control the finances! that is amazing lol! I feel bad for my poor friend, granted she isn't the best with money eg buys a lot of stuff for the house (candles, xmas decorations) but she has constantly been told she is bad with money so is not getting ANY oversight or access to his, just a credit card he pays off for essentials, anything else she would have to fund herself. I guess she hasn't got kids - but they are married. Who knows what the set up would be when she has kids, I doubt unfortunately it would change - but I know some woman would just be grateful to not work and have a roof over there head. She says how "grateful" she is and her partner tells her regularly that she doesn't appreciate it.. anyway - he would laugh if she asked him to put into a pension for her.

whats ur view if one works from home? should they do more of the household chores?

amazing that there are men out there that earn the money and let the woman control the finances! thats the dream haha.

Lol @Gremlins101 I'm afraid I'm definitely keeping him! In fact it's a little thing I've often said over the years "I like you, can I keep you?!" He isn't perfect, none of us are but he's always respected what I do and the fact that raising our child is a job in itself. Plus I could never earn what he does, I just don't have an interest in the skill sets that would see me earn that kind of money. We work at our relationship, it's not always been plain sailing, but solid respect for each other is our absolute foundation. I'm well aware that financially he holds the whip hand (and so is he we've had some very forthright conversations about it) and were we ever to split then it would be hard for some time whilst I sorted myself out financially, but it's a risk I personally am prepared to take although I fully understand why some would choose not to.

If I won the lottery, I would give up work and have staff to do all the bits I hated.

Note that I still wouldn't volunteer to be the one doing all the house-work, I would pay for someone else to do it, so why would I ever give up work so I could dedicate my life to washing up?

I'm a single mum, and I have less house maintenance with one less lazy adult in the house than when I was (supposedly) part of a team with us both working, and in theory supposed to both be sharing the household tasks (ha!)

Pashazade - I had this. I thought we were solid, I did all the finances (TBH, just him being lazy). Then he started to get bored that I couldn't just drop the kids and come out and play like he could with his work colleagues, then the drugs started. Cocaine isn't good for relationships, I'll say that much.

Don’t be daft - of course he doesn’t

He isn’t ‘paying’ - he works outside the home and she works in it. They are a partnership.

If you are married, and there is disparity in the money you bring in, it’s vital everything goes into one pot the couple have equal access to.

Anything else is cracked.

Well, yes, eventually they might walk away with half. But it will take several months at best to sort out so you might want to think about how you will stay solvent whilst you're waiting for your half share. Most likely this is going to mean staying in the house with your STBX or, if you are lucky, maybe moving back in with your parents. Also, how much would half get you? Enough to buy a house outright (after all, no job = no mortgage). If you had to rent rather than buy for how many months would that money last? And what about the bills, food, stuff for your children? If you weren't working and also needed to pay for all that, how long would half of your joint assets last? Most people in this scenario are going to have to find a job. And then they'll have to find and pay for childcare.

Of course working parents have the same issues, but they have a massive advantage because they are earning right from day 1.

If you are married, and there is disparity in the money you bring in, it’s vital everything goes into one pot the couple have equal access to.

Not at all.

The only thing that is vital is that everyone is happy with the set up. There is disparity between what my DH and I earn but we continue to have separate bank accounts and no joint account at all. This has been our set up for 25 years and as we are both happy with it, it works perfectly.

Look, we all need to do the shitty basics at home, the washing, the cleaning etc. Unless you choose to live on your own we are going to have to navigate the split of how we manage it.
Having children usually involves having a man around whether they are a husband or partner.
The upmost best we should be telling our daughters is choose wisely who you procreate with. But when has that ever worked out?
My firm belief is teaching your son's, young men, that domestic work is theirs absolutely. Don't do the Mum thing and iron their shirts, don't teach them they are entitled to women running around after them.
Sorry, that's not a flame at Mums of boys. I have one as well. It's just if these decades of problems are going to be dealt with it starts with teaching boys to be independent, and hopefully CO-PARENTING will eventually be just that.

I live in the USA and I was a SAHM.

DH worked 6 days (and sometimes 7) for us to afford this. I obviously did the lion’s share of household stuff, child care and admin since he worked so much. His pay went into our joint account and I managed it. There was never any question of asking him if I needed new clothes or a hairdo or anything like that. The money was ours not his. Since I got every penny that he made, his only criteria was that I don’t spend more than I had in the bank. He trusted that I would take care of business, which I did.

In the early years, things were a little tight with small kids, but eventually we had enough money for us to put money in a retirement fund for me. I’m also legally entitled to 1/2 his pension and social security, so if we split up, I wouldn’t be destitute. Also 1/2 the house.

I wouldn’t ever have been agreeable to giving up my job if I wasn’t treated like an equal partner in our relationship.

And although DH did work a lot, whenever he was around he was involved in the thick of child rearing. He cooks, cleans up, does the grocery shopping, drove kids around, let me sleep in every Sunday morning when I had infants etc etc. We have been a good team, have raised nice kids and are in a decent financial position.

I work FT and my wife is a SAHM for the past 7 years. We've been happily married 10 years and have 2 children.

I do the food shopping as she doesn't drive. I also do the cooking, A. because I really don't mind it, I think I enjoy providing for my family re. food as well as money and B. It's a break tbh from the DC's!

She does more of the childcare sort of stuff, homework, reading books, generally is more available than me. Of course in a large part this is due to me working. I do WFH half the time though and it's more of a task orientated role rather than having to do a set number of hours, so I do pop in and out during the day which is great.

I've always been good with money. She has more savings than me as we try and save the majority of the child benefit. We are trying to save it to help them get on the property ladder, but it's there if we needed it if something major happened. She has a few k of her own savings too, but whenever she gets her hair done or buys things for the boys, I'll always ask how much was it and transfer the money. I have enough to provide for us and wouldn't want her to spend everything she has. The money that I get paid is paid into my own account but she would know how much I have, I'm fully transparent and she knows that I see it as our money. It's used for everything... Day to day expenses, mortgage, holidays, etc. I don't get off on my bank balance, it's there to be spent, with a few k left for security.

She is doing a truly stellar job raising our children and I'm glad that she is happy to, but if she did decide one day that she wanted to return to work, I'd support her 100%. I wouldn't even mind dropping my hours in a couple of years to facilitate picking up children from school if she wanted to go FT to re-establish a career. She is smart, think top of her particular subject across the whole year group in a very prestigious university in days gone by, but she's never been career or money driven. She said she remembers growing up and that all she ever dreamt of being was a mother.

I would LOVE my husband to be a provider and for me to not work... BUT, he would have to earn enough that my pension was paid, and that I had free access to the money in all situations.

If my DH suddenly started earning tonnes, this is likely what would happen.