How to help DD escape toxic relationship? (Sorry, v long)

[MamaSigma]

DD (21) has been/is in a horrible relationship for about 18 months.

(Although this is long, there’s a hell of a lot more to this but I know people here IRL and don’t really want to out myself, or her. Have NC for this.)

She is currently back living with me after a few awful, awful weekends where he has provoked her into self-harm, suicide attempts and drinking too much with his cruel words.

He is manipulative, misogynistic, believes all women are evil and crazy like his mother, is mentally and financially abusive. Coercive control. Hates her few friends, you know, the ‘usual crap’.

He persuaded her to move in with him (ie rent a place together) after just 5 months, and he didn’t want her to tell me their plans, so I found out only a week before she left. Red flags everywhere.

They recently moved to a new town, further away, so she was unable to get to her work. She doesn’t drive, and there’s no public transport. She was paying her entire daily wages for cabs until she had to resign.

He also called the police on her at least a couple of times this past month, I believe (she ran away from him last weekend and they picked her up). He’s (poss maliciously) reported her too for physical abuse but the police found no evidence, took no further action.

he has also said he intends to get her sectioned. And he nearly succeeded last weekend (he works in social care, so knows the words to use).

Her mental health is fragile, always has been. GP has upped her meds now. Boyfriend forwarded a letter to her from his local mental health hospital yesterday but I don’t know what it says.

She was released (from hospital) into my care a week ago. So far, so good. She’s calm, doesn’t seem heartbroken. We’ve had some laughs and lovely time this week.

But, I am terrified she will go back to him. I believe he’s said he will ‘take her back once she’s had help’.

She's not talking to me about it all - much. A few bits here and there but while she was with him, all day, every day. He knows I know a LOT about their life and is furious. And is now apparently at war with me! Hah!

I’ve found a counsellor for her to talk to next week (no idea how I’ll afford it, but that’s the least of my worries).

All her stuff is still at the house. and her pet. She won’t discuss getting any of it back, which is why I think she plans to return.

But I need to know how to help her leave for good, for her sanity. And mine.

he is obsessed with money - he writes IOUs even though he earns 10x what she did - even now when she’s earning nothing.
Pretty sure he will come at her for rent soon.

and how does she get off the tenancy?

My mind is all over the place. Apologies for the length, I just need some outside input on how to help her escape this guys clutches.

Such incredibly valuable advice @Resilience thank you so much. I can see many areas I’ve gone wrong. But hindsight can help the future.

yes, she’s safe and not dead, as I’d thought for what seemed like hours.

still no news. I presume they wait until she’s sober before talking to her. I have absolutely no idea how to navigate tonight/tomorrow. Logistically, I mean. Do I stay up all night in case I have to drive to get her? Or am I likely to get a call tomorrow - when I’m due in an important meeting?

@stomachameleon Well, he’s ’officially dumped’ her now, so I assume he won’t take her back again. Pretty sure she didn’t want to go back in the first place, but he had something on her.

She was offered all sorts of help last time, but it was all in the other town, so couldn’t get there. Also, I think she lied and said various appointments were cancelled when they weren’t.

god what a mess.

On a practical note @MamaSigma I'd probably go to bed. Every detainee has to have a period of rest in the 24 hours they can be detained for. In many cases this is not required because the law also requires the police to deal with a detainee expeditiously. However, if someone is drunk they can't be dealt with until sober, which extends the time they're in custody and makes this rest period more likely. Sometimes the police will interview a sobered up detainee in the early hours if they're ready, just to get them out of custody as soon as possible. However, if a detainee is drunk, vulnerable and there's evidence the police still need to obtain, they'll more likely put her on a lie down to be dealt with in the morning.

The police can't tell you much because of data protection but you can call them and tell them she has nowhere to go on release due to DV. This will factor in to what they do with her and if she's in agreement that you be told, give you an idea of how long she'll be in for and call you on her release so you can go to bed rather than stay up waiting for the phone.

@MamaSigma 💐

Its so awful

I’ve detached completely as it’s so repetitive and stressful, I’ve had a major violent bereavement, and dd and the arse send me abusive messages.

just sending good wishes

That's such good advice @Resilience

I feel I keep resurrecting this horror thread with a new, worse chapter, 😭
Better catch up on the post arrest debacle before the next hideous bumper instalment.

i was called by the police to pick her up in a car park at 1130 the following day. They took her back to her place to collect what she needed and I brought her home. Got a quick debrief from her - bailed to not contact him for 3 months, and, interestingly, he is also not to contact her, or her freidns, or me, for 3 Months.

She was here 24 hours, before heading into town to meet C who’d come back from London to see her. Aww. yeah, right.

stayed in a hotel near where she used to work, so was able to reconnect with old friends the twat had distanced her from.

she stayed there for Christmas Day. My worst ever.

After Boxing Day, she met up with other friends, accidentally, and was really happy. She got offered her job back - one she’d work at right through covid. That was Wednesday.

As well as the happy, she was also panicking about where to stay - still trying to be here, but I needed to put a strong boundary up for my sake.

I refused to have C move in here. She ‘couldn’t leave him’. So that I could be sure she was safe, I scraped enough together to get them into a travelodge for a couple of weeks.
Huge relief.
which lasted 2 nights ffs

Woke his morning to ‘we”ve been kicked out of travelodge and banned from all others”.

knowing she would lie through her teeth, I called the place myself and found out - god I can’t believe this is my daughter - she had ‘found’ a ‘lovely, beautiful guy’ in town (prob homeless) and hooked up with him. At the travelodge. Meaning C slept in the corridor against the fire door. Instant out. No refund for me.

DD gave some garbled ‘C went to a gay club to hook up’ - wait, he’s gay now? They argued (understandably), C seems to be out of the picture now?

She spent all day trying to persuade me to take in this random guy, give her money, the usual.

My boundaries are well and truly in place. Said she has a home here, but nobody else. And no drinking.
not good enough for her right now. ‘I can’t leave him’.

Making my line in the sand means my daughter is literally on the streets now. no idea where but town is so dangerous.
so, so hard.

Oh, and I have a fabulous old friend in the Met who helped me make a 3rd party report to the police about the twat’s coercion and control until 2am last night - before today’s shite kicked off.

waiting for them to get in touch - I wrote pages, but could only upload 4000 characters.
this thread will also help me with timelines.

So, she is now in the system as a vulnerable adult due to her mental health and alcohol issues. Meaning, if she’s picked up again she will have a bit of extra support.

2023 can fuck right off please 😭

Big big hugs.

You have done the right thing.

@MamaSigma I want to give you the biggest hug. You are doing the right thing. You are stronger than you know and I wish I could put your mind at rest and reassure you.
We are here for you though.

Huge hugs @MamaSigma - you have done the right thing, heart breaking as it is.

You are a good and conscientious mum OP. You are doing the right thing.

Thank you once again, I so appreciate you.
Haven't slept much, unsurprisingly.

She eventually turned up at about 7 last night, after saying she was on her way to collect ‘some stuff’ at midday. She seemed well. Obviously, she’s not, but didn’t look ill.
She, and ‘lovely new guy’ respected my boundaries and he didn’t come in. Then they left to ‘go camping’. I’m not even going there in my head, but it was a horrendous stormy night.

Anyway, my question about boundaries - I cannot cope with her popping over every day/every other day as the waiting makes me incredibly edgy.

I’m on the verge of losing my business as I haven’t been able to work properly for months, since all this kicked off in the summer.

I am considering telling her she can’t come more often than once a week. To protect my mental health, to give me chance to breathe, to work.

do you think this is reasonable? Or likely to push her further away and into danger?

Trouble is, every day seems to throw up yet another problem with her, and with winter closing in, she’s likely to want her home comforts soon. But she’s still drinking.

Hating this.

Hi @MamaSigma

Ive just read your thread Your DD is so lucky to have you.

Your DD is extremely vulnerable and is lurching from crisis to crisis. Lack of personal boundaries, emotional overwhelm and addiction issues are strongly suggestive of fairly significant neurodivergence. Getting some therapy in place would be my first port of call (Dialectical Behaviour Therapy is recommended for ND women), and, as a matter of urgency, a trip to the GP to ‘get her in the system’ (it sounds like you’re acquainted with the MH system). She needs to understand that she has significant needs which will not be met by random strangers and dangerous exes.

I know my suggestions are only a starting point, I’m not very good at next steps (I teach many autistic girls but they’re much younger than your DD and at a different stage). There are countless websites with info on ASD in women, and women are starting to write about their experiences.

Good luck, keep us updated.

Your DD is extremely vulnerable and is lurching from crisis to crisis. Lack of personal boundaries, emotional overwhelm and addiction issues are strongly suggestive of fairly significant neurodivergence

We're waiting for a diagnoses for our DD but have been told that it shouldn't come as a surprise when she does get diagnosed.

I would second everything Professor says

I don’t like to recommend it because it has a sad ending, but this book is a very instructive read. Perhaps OP’s DD could get it on audiobook:

https://books.google.co.uk/books/about/Why_Can_t_You_Hear_Me.html?id=c-IOEAAAQBAJ&source=kp_book_description&redir_esc=y

@ProfessorPeppy Thank you. She may have ND but nothing was ever flagged up during her school years. I was paying for private therapy when she first escaped from the twat. But it appeared she didn’t go, or engage, most of the time. I can’t afford any more.

Her GP is in the other town, my local one - even if she lived here, and was able to join that surgery, it is barely functioning.

As she currently isn’t living with me, I suspect there’s little I can do from that aspect.

She may have ND but nothing was ever flagged up during her school years. I was paying for private therapy when she first escaped from the twat. But it appeared she didn’t go, or engage, most of the time. I can’t afford any more.

DD's ND was never picked up on in school. I'd even had a head if SENCO laugh when I brought up the possibility.

My DD simply can't engage with Counselling as she lacks the language to express emotions and feelings. This might explain why your DD doesn't engage? Mine wants to, but it just doesn't work for her.

Our DD’s autism was also not picked up by her school. It seems to manifest very differently in girls because they mask by mimicking what they see others doing socially. We went private to get a diagnosis which she now has (mid-teens). Our DD has dabbled with certain drugs (not alcohol) because they help her feel more normal in demanding social situations such as parties. Even if you can’t afford a diagnosis right now, there’s loads of helpful information on-life about autism in girls.

Women's Aid were a lifesaver for both my dd and me. And the police were fantastic. My dd did go back a couple of times-just to warn you-but she got free eventually. So if she does, it's not necessarily the end of the world, even though it feels as if it is. Do you have anyone to support you? I confess I broke a promise to dd not to tell anyone, and talked to a trusted friend because I couldn't have survived and supported dd without her help.

She may very well be ND. But be careful. It's a short step from this to thinking she is unconsciously contributing to what is happening to her. Helping her to understand herself is good. But keep the blame firmly where it belongs-with him. He will be twisting it round to her- she needs tools to help her resist.

I think you really really do need to choose you at the moment. Not just for yourself but also for your DD. If there is no you left then you also can't ever help her.

I think you are amazing. You are doing brilliantly in an incredibly difficult and unpredictable situation that you have no control over. Just every now and again you get to do a bit of steering then the wheel is taken off you again.

Does she need help? Yes, lots of it. Does she need interventions? Yes, absolutely.

Can you control this? No, sadly you cannot.

Therefore right now the best thing you can do is choose you. Otherwise you are spiralling too and it can only serve to make you feel worse. Keep talking here, you've had some great advice and clearly this is an outlet for you which is great. You need that help too!

Don't ever feel you're posting too much. It's an extremely difficult and frustrating position to be in. You cannot force people to take the help they need sadly. You have done everything you could have done. Want to send you a great big hug.

Hi OP...I just read through your thread and wanted to say that I think you're doing a fabulous job. You might not feel like it though!

I have a friend who was in a similar situation with her son - a fierce cocktail of alcohol, undiagnosed mental health issues and constantly hooking up with people who pulled him deeper into the void. After years of trying to help him, they finally had to put some boundaries in place and they were similar to yours, no alcohol in the house and he was only allowed to visit at pre-arranged times (as he was prone to turning up with 'friends' and it was chaotic and frightening). He finally hit crisis point and was charged with a crime and got a 6 month custodial sentence. Obviously not everyone has this experience but prison was his turnaround moment. He kicked the booze, got a mental health diagnosis (and decent meds) and looking at him now, out of prison, in stable employment, he's a different person. So there is hope!

Just as an aside, has she ever had a mental health assessment? I wonder if there is more at play, perhaps undiagnosed bi polar or something like that? Sorry if I've missed that in your thread.

Anyway...honestly, I think she is very lucky to have a mum like you.

So much admiration for you OP and everything you've done. I reckon you're right to limit her appearances for your own sake. Maybe rather than saying "once a week" give her a specific day / time? "I'll see you on Saturday - I've a busy week ahead."

And hopefully you've got some real life support? What you're going through is immense.

Re the dog, you could try https://cinnamon.org.uk/

Also— he changed his mind and was at home —- is he tracking her phone?
I think you switch off locations in Settings.

Sorry, ignore the last bit of last post, can’t edit.

im so sorry OP, I don’t know how you’ve coped this long. 💐

@MamaSigma no I don't think it's unreasonable.
When my son has been unwell there are certain boundaries I have had to put into place. One for me is weed. If I know he is smoking I won't see him. And I stick to it.
You have to protect yourself now. Focus on your well being and getting your business back up and running.

@ProfessorPeppy just out of interest how do you force an adult to engage? All the time my son was under 18 I had control and could enforce things, do pip etc for him (he has a diagnosis) as soon as he reached 18 and went to adult mental health services he stopped engaging. It's taken years of me drawing attention to the parallels in his behaviour and his lack of interaction and he eventually started seeing the psychiatrist.

Think is you can see what's happening but if they can't/ won't what do you do?

The only thing you can do is put in boundaries.

@stomachameleon

With great difficulty. I work with children, and encourage parents to get help as early as possible. ND people can develop maladaptive coping mechanisms if they don’t get the right help early on (hence addiction and personality disorders). It’s much harder to get - and accept - help as an adult.