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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

How to help DD escape toxic relationship? (Sorry, v long)

140 replies

MamaSigma · 14/10/2023 19:42

DD (21) has been/is in a horrible relationship for about 18 months.

(Although this is long, there’s a hell of a lot more to this but I know people here IRL and don’t really want to out myself, or her. Have NC for this.)

She is currently back living with me after a few awful, awful weekends where he has provoked her into self-harm, suicide attempts and drinking too much with his cruel words.

He is manipulative, misogynistic, believes all women are evil and crazy like his mother, is mentally and financially abusive. Coercive control. Hates her few friends, you know, the ‘usual crap’.

He persuaded her to move in with him (ie rent a place together) after just 5 months, and he didn’t want her to tell me their plans, so I found out only a week before she left. Red flags everywhere.

They recently moved to a new town, further away, so she was unable to get to her work. She doesn’t drive, and there’s no public transport. She was paying her entire daily wages for cabs until she had to resign.

He also called the police on her at least a couple of times this past month, I believe (she ran away from him last weekend and they picked her up). He’s (poss maliciously) reported her too for physical abuse but the police found no evidence, took no further action.

he has also said he intends to get her sectioned. And he nearly succeeded last weekend (he works in social care, so knows the words to use).

Her mental health is fragile, always has been. GP has upped her meds now. Boyfriend forwarded a letter to her from his local mental health hospital yesterday but I don’t know what it says.

She was released (from hospital) into my care a week ago. So far, so good. She’s calm, doesn’t seem heartbroken. We’ve had some laughs and lovely time this week.

But, I am terrified she will go back to him. I believe he’s said he will ‘take her back once she’s had help’.

She's not talking to me about it all - much. A few bits here and there but while she was with him, all day, every day. He knows I know a LOT about their life and is furious. And is now apparently at war with me! Hah!

I’ve found a counsellor for her to talk to next week (no idea how I’ll afford it, but that’s the least of my worries).

All her stuff is still at the house. and her pet. She won’t discuss getting any of it back, which is why I think she plans to return.

But I need to know how to help her leave for good, for her sanity. And mine.

he is obsessed with money - he writes IOUs even though he earns 10x what she did - even now when she’s earning nothing.
Pretty sure he will come at her for rent soon.

and how does she get off the tenancy?

My mind is all over the place. Apologies for the length, I just need some outside input on how to help her escape this guys clutches.

OP posts:
SiouxsieSiouxStiletto · 15/10/2023 22:36

I'd think again about the DDog. That could be the hook to get her back and if she does go back to him, she may never come back to you Flowers

Judystilldreamsofhorses · 15/10/2023 22:43

So sorry to read this OP. Just to echo other posters, is there no way at all you can have the dog? We have a cat, not dog, but the thought of her being given up because XDP didn’t want her, or just not being with me would break my heart.

MamaSigma · 15/10/2023 22:49

doitwithlove · 15/10/2023 21:02

Hi there, can you go to the property and get her belongings / is there any friend or relative who can take the dog on till things are more settled?

I had a similar situation with my dd, hubby and I went to the property and took majority of her belongings.

She’s sort of shut down at the mo, and I can’t get her to agree to go get her stuff. She doesn’t want me to go alone (she’s more afraid of what I’ll do to him than the other way round). He works from home a lot and changes his days to try and ‘catch her out’. Surprise.

i don’t have anyone around, but when the time comes I’ll ask on the local FB for ‘man with van’.

OP posts:
MamaSigma · 15/10/2023 22:50

Tigger1895 · 15/10/2023 21:31

Has he been in contact with you personally? If so screenshot everything before he deletes the thread

Done. And her friend has screenshots too.

OP posts:
MamaSigma · 15/10/2023 22:55

Gloriously · 15/10/2023 21:48

Is he older than her?

Do you know his relationship history?

Can you do a Claire’s Law enquiry?

All the actions you note are classic coercive and controlling behaviour which is illegal under the 2021 Domestic Abuse Act.

Speak with professionals because his type are very dangerous and manipulative. Know that his brain and tactics are working faster and deeper than you will ever know - so involve the professionals - WA, police, GP so that YOU know what you are dealing with and how to manage because NORMAL RULES DONT APPLY in these situations.

Be careful not to steamroller her though. Or put her in the middle between you and him especially if she has all or nothing / back and white thinking.

No, he’s the same age. I don’t know his r/ship history.

my brain may be fried by this and menopause, but I’m still a damn sight more life intelligent and savvy than he is. Well, he is a walking stereotype tbh. but noted, thank you. I’ll take those steps when she is ready to move.

I am taking it real slow with her right now, but some discussions need to be had very soon.

How does someone prove coercive control though?

OP posts:
MamaSigma · 15/10/2023 23:02

@Judystilldreamsofhorses and @SiouxsieSiouxStiletto the dog is indeed a huge worry.

He’s really big, very young, totally untrained and I have cats, a disability and an elderly, unwell dog myself.

Honestly, she shouldn’t have got him in the first place, and as much as it’s killing me to leave him there, it would be better for the dog if she agreed for him to be fostered or rehomed. But I can’t get through to her right now.
will have to increase the pressure this coming week though, because I think he’s reeling her back in somehow.

god, why doesn’t autocapitalise work here?

OP posts:
MamaSigma · 15/10/2023 23:05

Thank you all again for being here for me. I’m genuinely alone and this is a lot to handle, your advice is invaluable.

OP posts:
Quitelikeit · 15/10/2023 23:15

Have you considered calling up his place of work - he is breaching codes and doesn’t seem fit to practice?

Id also ring the non emergency police number for advice

Of course they are still in touch

what is his job title?

SausageMonkey2 · 15/10/2023 23:24

Tell her even if she does go back, whatever happens, no matter what time of day or night, she can always come home. No questions asked. It might not make sense to her at the time but in ten or twenty years it might be the dealbreaker that brings her back eventually.

MamaSigma · 15/10/2023 23:26

@SausageMonkey2 Absolutely, I’d never reject her. Ever. I know how that feels, unfortunately.

OP posts:
MamaSigma · 15/10/2023 23:28

@Quitelikeit That’s something I’ll do for sure when I know she’s properly out of it. I don’t know his job title, though. Should be easy enough to work out in due course.

OP posts:
CrapBucket · 15/10/2023 23:29

My friend fosters dogs, via the Dogs Trust, sometimes because the owner is ill, sometimes in prison, I’m sure they would offer it for relationship breakdown- might be worth having some details to hand so you have a temporary solution at least.

MamaSigma · 15/10/2023 23:30

Oh, and the police have already said they will be there for when she’s ready to make a counter statement. And I have their names and numbers. So that helps a little.

OP posts:
MamaSigma · 15/10/2023 23:31

@CrapBucket excellent name! Dogs Trust is a good call. Thank you.

OP posts:
KissyMissy · 16/10/2023 09:20

billy1966 · 14/10/2023 22:46

Have you spoken to her GP.

Please contact Women's aid and ask for advice.

Tell them that he is using his job to manipulate her.

Get advice about reporting him to the police.

I would be contacting his employer to report him for abusing your daughter via his job, and tell them that you are involving police.

Don't be fobbed off.
Email the police your concerns.
Ask to speak to a senior officer.

Nothing like having the police involved and his work being contacted for him to lose interest in her.

You need to bring real grief to HIS door.

Start with Women's aid and the police.
Get advice regarding contacting the LL and mention domestic abuse.

I can well imagine your upset.

Great advice here

Eteiene · 16/10/2023 10:49

OP ...I'm so sorry your daughter is in this situation a d its great she has you ( and her best friend) in her corner.
I am a good 15 years older ( having married someone like this) and have just left .... with the dogs ...so I can appreciate the pull of not wanting to leave them ( especially knowing what the other person can be like , and they can be a huge source of comfort).

There's no real added advice I can offer that hasn't already been given ...police, GP, dogs trust fostering scheme ( you could give them a ring with the scenario so if it came to that you and your daughter would know the process)...

It's a slow and difficult process getting out of these kinds of relationships ... women s aid chat might be a useful starting point too , it is yotally anonymous, cam go at your daughters pace ...she may not be ready to hear/ face that idea tho ...

I hope you and she both get the support needed
Eteiene x

MamaSigma · 20/10/2023 18:27

Thought I’d update the story so far. I’ve taken it all very slowly, no pressure. She has a counsellor lined up for next week. And something fabulous to look forward to next weekend.

Since she’s been here/home with me she’s not cried, not had a panic attack, she’s (almost) back to her normal quirky self. Which says a lot. She mentioned it today, so she’s aware. she is SO much stronger. And she has said out loud she doesn’t love him any more and has the ick. Yay!

Today we went back to the other town so her GP could follow up her increased anti-depressants. All good.

then we went to her old house to get some stuff. That was so difficult but we did it.

Although he was supposed to be out at work, he obviously changed his mind at the last moment. I knew he would - such a cliche! Thankfully he left the house while we went in but as I was carrying bags to my car around the corner, he appeared. That was fun. Luckily he hid from her so she didn’t see him as she locked up and followed on.

He’s under the delusion that she is going back to him, left her a note and a manky bunch of flowers. Reckons she will be back for Halloween and had decorated the place ‘for her’.

I’ve also found out he has an actual god-complex, eew.

gotta go, she’s just appeared

OP posts:
RandomMess · 20/10/2023 18:36

So glad she is a step closer to ending it for good.

Flowers
MamaSigma · 20/10/2023 22:13

As far as she’s concerned, it’s well and truly over @RandomMess Which is a huge relief to both her, and me.

But, with his ego and issues, he can’t deal with that. Even though he chucked her out, and ended it, he’s gaslighting he didn’t say it. Such a twat.

also, just found out she couldn’t get her paperwork and passport as he’s locked them away. So that’s gonna be a fun job for another day.

OP posts:
Pinkbonbon · 20/10/2023 22:25

Suppose she could log the passport as lost and get a new one if needs must. Especially if it didn't have long left on it.

Typical of his sort to do something underhanded like that. What a loser.

Gloriously · 20/10/2023 22:38

If he is being controlling you can ask the police to escort her to retrieve her paperwork - that would be a big early warning signal for him to drop it as she means business

MamaSigma · 20/10/2023 22:47

She is rather cleverly keeping him sweetish for now, I’m incredibly impressed how she has ‘come back’ to herself so quickly.
So she will wait before dropping the bomb until she has everything in place - ducks in a row and all that. At the moment, she doesn’t want to involve the police due to his reporting of her to them, the other weekend.

OP posts:
Gloriously · 21/10/2023 07:23

I would be building a case with a timeline and evidence of incidents of DA / coercive control eg a diary, texts etc. look up reactive abuse and read up on stalking and harassment (it’s a low bar) so that you are ready to report. Police now take stalking v v seriously and are well aware that women are are huge risk physically in the early weeks and months of separation and see stalking as a serious warning of escalation.

Gloriously · 21/10/2023 07:36

The following non-exhaustive list is from the Statutory Guidance re evidence of DA / CC that you can collate

Copies of emails
Phone records (how many, which way)
Text messages
Evidence of abuse over the internet, digital technology and social media platforms
999 tapes or transcripts
CCTV
Body-worn video footage
@Records of interaction with services such as support services (even if parts of those records relate to events which occurred before the new offence came into force, their contents may still, in certain circumstances, be relied on in evidence)@
Medical records
@Witness testimony, for example, the family and friends of the victim may be able to give evidence about the effect and impact of isolation of the victim from them
@Diary kept by the victim
@Victims account of what happened to the police

Gloriously · 21/10/2023 07:52

https://www.voiceofthechild.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/Private-Law-Assessment-of-coercive-control.pdf

This is a link to assessment of coercive control as you asked how to prove it early in the thread - I hope it helps.

I would concentrate on getting her back on her meds, seeing a counsellor and being busy and productive with other people even if just a few hours a day either working, volunteering, art/sport, meet up groups - just so that she is distracted and doesn’t end up ruminating and obsessing about him as this will make her vulnerable.

Also expect this to take a long time, try to be patient. Toxic relationships like any substance are addictive - she will likely be physiologically tied to him in a hyper vigilant bond that you can’t comprehend.

Focus on rebuilding her MH, self esteem, acquaintances, hobbies and purposeful life - slowly bit by bit as she needs all of these elements in place to sustain her.

Don't expect his type to go quietly - he will become obsessed to regain control. If you can get her connected with WA and make sure she has reported the situation to her GP. The police are also now well aware of the reactive abuse scenario (where she was provoked) - so she should be confident approaching them.

But the most important thing is she started to sees / re-establishes chinks of light elsewhere in her life as he has robbed her of this.

https://www.voiceofthechild.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/Private-Law-Assessment-of-coercive-control.pdf

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