Should I trust that my DH has changed?

[NCcaughtinit]

NCed for advice.

DH and I have been together for 18 years, we have 2 children 7 and 5. To cut a (very) long story short, our relationship has been horrible since our children were born - he left me to it for the first year of elder DDs life (I went back to FT work at 5 months but did everything at home too despite a non sleeping baby) and then quit his job as DS arrived 2 years later. Hasnt worked since but also just totally checked out of family life, we have a full time nanny and then on weekends he would berate me if I wanted to do anything away from the kids as he needed time alone. Dismissive of anything going on in my life (I had post natal anxiety with my first and have had all sorts of work challenges etc) and just totally focused on how I wasn’t doing enough for him. When I look back on it it was just awful and I almost can’t believe I put up with it but it was a sort of boiled frog situation. Anyway, the inevitable happened, I got too close to a man from work and kissed him one night (which yes I know was horrible and wrong). Turned out that DH had been suspicious of me and was scanning all my messages - he ended up finding and reading my diary where I wrote about it. It led to a huge blow up where he went absolutely crazy and burnt my clothes etc. In the immediate aftermath I changed jobs and sort of calmed things down, but he was doubly awful to me and after a couple of months of that after yet another hideous joint therapy session I just lost it and said I wanted to divorce as I wasn’t prepared to be treated like this.

me actually walking away (not for someone else, for me) seemed to act as a bucket of cold water for DH and he suddenly sort of snapped and completely changed his tune. He is now much more considerate, leaned into family life (though it must be said not very good at it - I am still very much keeper of the mental load but at least he is doing things) and is actively hunting for a job.

We are now 12 months on from all this. the problem is that I am struggling to let go of the idea that he will let me down again when he goes back to work. He is aggrieved by this but I can’t help but feel like it’s easy for him to make these changes now when he literally has nothing else to do. Job search is taking awhile as he is very senior, and I feel like we are just stuck in this hiatus in the meantime.

so my question - has anyone’s DH radically changed and stuck to it? Or am I right and this is just a temporary improvement? I don’t really want to separate but I know I won’t survive another period like the last time and I’m fearful of it which is making me keep my guard up.

Sorry that it's so difficult, @NCcaughtinit . A deep conundrum and I can see you fighting for the good (for you above all, the children and him) and also feeling really distrustful and uncertain. Good for you for being prepared to separate if you need to, and for letting your self process what's been happening.

I'm more like @SpringboksSocks . I was in a very similar experience to you with my husband five years ago, after years of him being just very selfish and not pulling his weight - not even realising what being a father and partner meant properly because of his past. It was beyond awful. But after times like you are describing we worked it out really well together. To your question, yes, he changed deeply, likes the change, and our life has becom so much better. And I and the children are deeply content. So it can happen.

Yes there was some 'I had to be clearer about what partnering on family fully meant to me' but that was v short term. The most important thing we did was go to therapy together and be able to atlk it through. Not just him but frankly I had to put on my big girl pants and reveal the kinds of doubts and fears and what I need much more fully than I could directly. We had to get over the hurt/hostility that we both had stuck in from the bad times. And of course above all all all he had to step up massively. But he did.

Starting with - can people change? Yes, of course they can.

And what you are describing is not uncommon. A few of my friends went through crises with similar type of husbands - high earners-stress-crap partners. By late middle age marriages were nearly destroyed, then some crisis forced them to change. And - while not completely healed, marriages did survive and got better.

You sound sane and rational. And in control, which is great. It means that no matter how it turns out with him - you and the kids will be fine.

I think your approach to give it a bit of time, now that he is actively looking - makes sense. When he finds a job - he may revert a little to the old form - as he doesn't know any other way of working. He'll need a bit of time to figure out a way to work differently - but it can be done. The recent shift to more remote working would actually help.

But - if you do go the divorce way - I think you may be in a better place than you realise. If you have been married for 10+ years - or can make it to that mark - your marriage becomes a long marriage from legal standpoint. Your house is then considered a marital asset and is divided 50/50. It doesn't matter who put what deposit; or who paid mortgage; or even who is on the deeds.
His pre-marital assets - may or may not be ring-fenced. Pension is more likely to be treated that way than other kinds of savings.

And, BTW - when you said he is using "his" savings to fund his share of costs - it does sound strange in the context of a marriage. Unless he is planning a divorce - there are no HIS or YOUR savings. All assets in a marriage are joint while you are married. Essentially - you are funding his early retirement.

@Grittycoast thank you so much. It’s wonderful to hear, and I’m glad that you and your children are happy. Can I ask if there are any things you can point to that really shifted things for you in therapy? Would love to know.

@Sashya yes we have been married for 12 years, living together for 15. Intellectually DH knows everything is joint, but it’s true that he does at some level consider his (to be fair, considerable) savings as..if not “his”, at least a pot of money that he can use to almost buy his freedom/things he wants. This has never been an issue as I have more than enough income of my own - until he stopped working and as you have pointed out, he still thinks he’s paying his way and I think he’s depleting our family wealth. That is one of the things we need to work on.

Hi, @NCcaughtinit sorry for pause: brother ill & half term overload.

TLDR - The biggest prob in therapy was us two coming out behind hard dug defences to show love or caring and to be soft. Your Q: what really helped in our case:
.trying to be light and easy on ourselves as poss
.being shown how our meanness arose within interaction patterns we could change
.Gettingh to same story of what had happened in the worst bits. Big change to DHs and my prev well practiced, dug in versions. Hard for both of us to hear each other, see how we created this but good to have done
.focusing MUCH more on present and future together. stopping both of us obsessing over all the grim examples of past pain, which drove us apar, & were still driving me mad
.Both recognising the other had been in huge pain (tho’ different kinds ofc) and where we fear most now. Then agreeing together what to do about now practically to soothe some of those fears.Helped me feel less afraid about control and more generous. DH too
.Things to do IRL to help us talk (thoughtfully) on our own +vely about how we both build. And little actions just signalling care (hated this at frst). This built more true change
.Both vocalising more needs (thoughtfully) instead of assuming
.Him being true to what promised in session but also me too

Honestly, at start hard to get either of us to +ve mindset about future vs past hurt-gazing. but you can feel when it starts happening and that was great inside and outside, and I began to unfreeze, halting a sort of spiral down and making it change direction. Our DCs noticed it a lot right then too

He hasn't had a huge personality change.

He has temporarily and deliberately adjusted his behaviour to manipulate you and it's working an absolute treat. As other posters have said, as soon as he's confident you're staying he will slip back.

You are being manipulated and played and the fact you defend him and dismiss all the advice here really shows that. You cannot mother him into being a better man and husband. Vetting his job applications, allowing him to sit around being useless while you and the nanny parent the children. I dread to think the other ways you have to mother this man just for him to function day to day.

People replying on this post don't know you. We offer advice from an outside perspective, people who are impartial and have no reason to give you bad advice.

You won't get out of this horrible situation until you decide it's time and you're clearly a smart woman so I really hope it's sooner rather than later for yours and your children's sake. It sounds like some of us are being harsh but we're all just trying different approaches in the hope that it will get through.

If you'll listen to one thing from the advice here, as others have said.. please do NOT go to marriage counselling with this man.

Hi @NCcaughtinit I remember your thread from a month ago. I just wondered if he'd had any success with the job hunting?

Good advice. I used this criteria to dump many a man. Have never regretted any if them. And yes there were kids involved, was still the right thing to do.

Wondering what that Xmas deadline bought, @NCcaughtinit ?
another one here experiencing a “reformed character” and looking for evidence either way of if this is believable/sustainable

@GirlAnachro well…he got a temp job, part time. As a step back to ft work. He is still looking for something ft and perm. We are still together. I am still very very blocked and he is frustrated that we’re not moving faster towards proper repair. Sigh. I don’t know. I’m sorry you have one of these men too. It’s surprised me how long I have held on to the anger and sadness - I think part of the problem is that every time he does do something well / nice now it almost triggers memories of when he didn’t. And so many of those things are everyday things so there are a lot of triggers….

IME people don't change, they just adapt their behaviour.

I think the key will be how he responds to being back at work, will be revert back to the horrid person who treated you like his support human.

I'm a lone parent, full time career had a live in nanny etc and I think you pulled a blinder keeping the nanny if you divorced. It shows he wasn't the main carer.

I'm not sure I could get over the original betrayal of how he behaved either though, but then I would not of hung out to find out.

I don't think you can change basic character. He was happy to let you work yourself into the ground while he swanned round doing nothing much. He only "changed" when his cosy set up was in danger. I'd have no respect for him whatsoever. I think given the chance he'd revert in a flash.

It’s good he’s got a job but it sounds like you’ve checked out ( don’t blame you). However this isn’t a way to live .. you either need to immerse yourself in getting a relationship back with him ( which I think you don’t want) or split. Life is too short and your relationship lacks intimacy or any kind of friendship even! Your children see the tension and can feel the atmosphere so question whether you want them to model their future relationships on your own.

I think that’s right @Secondstart1001 but as a PP said him working FT is really a precondition to the reimmersing myself. It feels very fake otherwise.

I don’t think it’s right to say no one can change as a couple of posters on this thread have come on to say the opposite - there has been real and lasting change for them. But it needs to be stress tested. And I think I’m only figuring out as I go how much damage was done. It’s a bit like infidelity I suppose - they say 2-5 years to repair if you’re going to get there. I can see why, it’s about rebuilding trust and that takes a long time and isn’t very pleasant for the person doing the rebuilding. It remains to be seen if DH has the patience, so far so good but it feels like a long road. One that’s worth trying if we can get there - we have young children involved and I don’t take that lightly.