September 2023 - well we took you to Stately Homes

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' back in December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.
Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker
The Echo Society

There are also one or two less public offshoots of Stately Homes, PM AttilaTheMeerkat or toomuchtooold for details.

Some books:

Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione
Childhood Disrupted by Donna Jackson Nazakawa

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be given with warmth and support

@Gloriously
Thankyou it helps to feel heard and understood x

I’ve been reading the recent posts and found them so helpful. Just wanted to say thanks for sharing 💛

Just wondering if anyone has had experience of narcissistic parents implying you are after their money when you are not and there isn't any basis for thinking that you are. I'm not sure if mine are just projecting as they are very interested in material wealth, or if it's a way to imply to people on the outside that they are blameless victims of me wanting to stay away from them - that it's just because I want them to give me all their money and they haven't done so.

I left home at 18 and to another country in my very early 20s. In my mid 40s now. I haven't asked them for any money in adulthood. They haven't had to contribute to anything like a wedding, deposit for house, driving lessons etc which some parents do. I am fine with this but once when I was visiting them my father made some horrible snarling remark about me waiting for an inheritance within a completely unrelated conversation (his rage and venom do come out of the blue unfortunately, so hard to avoid through behaving in any particular way.) I just don't understand. I don't want anything from him and tbh being released from the dread of his anger and nasty little games and lies when he dies is all the inheritance I want.

The extended family always seem slightly off with me and I wonder if this is a part of it. I wonder what they have been told about me and on what basis they just believe it.

The reason I am asking is because a while ago YouTube suggested a video to me and it was from the point of view of an estranged parent. I had some sympathy for her at first but then she said something like "you can say to your kids 'I'm sorry if I didn't buy you everything you wanted'" and alarm bells went off. Is it common for them to think like this, that their children are just greedy and want more presents and money and that's the only problem? Or to pretend this is the case to themselves and the outside world?

TLDR: My parents imply that I am a greedy bitch after their money even though I have never asked them for money in adulthood and have never been particularly interested in material wealth in general. Is this a common thing with narcissistic/abusive parents?

@Lurkylurks
Well I guess that if you are materialistic and judge your worth in terms of wealth and property you assume that everyone else is doing the same.
It is beyond their capacity to understand that some people live by different values and judge others on other than success and how much their house is worth etc.
So it is no surprise that they think you have an ulterior motive and are after their wealth.
And it seems that many abusive people use gifts and money as a further means of control of course so that is at play as well no doubt. x

Thank you@flapjackfairy. It helps to view it like that. I just still find the whole dynamic baffling and crazy-making even though I've lived it my whole life x

Definitely bank the 3k... you've earned it @NorthernSpirit

Hi all,

Just stumbled into this thread. I'm 37, and am starting to realise I need to walk away from my family. My relationship with my parents has been not great ever but more since 2011 when I decided to leave my abusive husband. My parents went mad at me for this "the shame" put onto the family, but also my ex husband went running to them and played them like a fiddle (telling them I had gone off with another man, pretended to try and end his life, woe is him etc). My parents-mum in particular- ate this up with a spoon. Before we split, she was saying to me she thought he was having an affair as he had moved out of the home but when we split, she conveniently forgot this and then denied saying it (she said it to one of my siblings too though).

My parents threatened to disown me, and also they and ex manipulated some of my siblings against me. I was this awful person in all of their eyes and he was a saint and a victim. I probably should mention that it was an EA situation I left to which my mother said to others that he didn't physically hit me so it wasn't bad (or similar) basically down played it.

So, fast forward through time. My mum speaks to this man regularly. They attended his engagement party and wedding to wife number 3 (now split also- she went through the same as me with him as I reached out after). He manipulates them/ her, goes for the sympathy vote then asks for money. She gives him money. She has given him a fair amount of money in the last few years (paid for him to get a new car). To my knowledge he hasn't paid her back. He moves on to the next ploy and the cycle restarts. For full disclosure - I have seen multiple WhatsApp messages between them, I know this is shady. She has him saved under a different name in her phone also- which is key you don't want people to know who that is you are talking to.

I've had various conversations/ rows over the years about it with them and my siblings. My siblings are tired of me going on about it and say I will.need to learn to accept it won't change/ go and speak to someone to work through it. My mother's stance is 'she's an adult, so she can be friends with who she likes'.

i had a blow out with her a couple of weeks ago to which she went gaslighty and asked if I was 'having training or seeing someone' as she started to go into self destruct/martyr mode. I replied saying I was arranging to see someone she then brashly asked 'why do you need to go and see someone' while pulling a face-standard her response.

I replied that maybe I need to talk about the fucked up family and the fact that I need to deal with the fact she still speaks to and gives my exh money. She looked me in the eyes and lied to my face. Saying she did not. I said about the car, that I knew. She denied so I said you're standing here and lying to me. I said so you're telling me the last time you spoke to him was more than a year ago. Again she looked me in the eyes and said not for 2,3 or even 4 years (car was bought in 2021 fyi). Then blamed me for them giving him money when we were together to sort out his dire finances, saying what about all that money WE gave YOU to sort out his finances (I didn't see a penny of that).

I'm sick of the lies. My mother constantly lies so much. Growing up she would punish us terribly for lying (I once got grounded for a month as I told her I didn't use money she gave me to buy a £5 top when I did) but now it's fine to lie all the time to fit her narrative of what she thinks she wants people to hear.

I'm a bit of a forgotten child/ black sheep. My parents don't mention me alot to others- be it shame or embarrassment. They used to tell my grandparents I was out doing all this awful stuff after I left the marriage (I married at 22 divorced at 25 so was having a good time- partying alot-but I had 3 jobs, saved up alot of cash and bought a flat during this time). This resulted in my grandparents continuously referring to me as a 'wildchild' and telling me to behave my self continuously until they died.

my parents don't really make contact, and frankly I've been using them as a commodity for dog care in recent years. I need to break the chain though as I feel I'm enabling their behaviour, plus it gives them some control over my life as we have to work holidays around their holidays to make sure they're about for the dogs.

I have not heard a thing since the row with my mum 2 weeks ago. Usually my dad would call and explode,but nothing. Again, forgotten child?

I'm sorry for droning on, this is a long post but it's a nutshell of a shit situation.

Thank you for reading.

@Gt1986 I wouldn't leave my dogs with them, they are not nice people and it gives them leverage over you, it keeps the door open for them.
My parents offered to look after my dog for a day, they said I spoiled my dog....no I love my dog and take responsibility for its health and happiness, shame they couldn't have done the same for me as a child.
You can't reason with bare faced liars it will drive you crazy. Find a nice kennels or home sitting service.

Liars lie to get out of trouble. You are the family scapegoat for all their inherent ills and are treated as such by them. Stay away from them all and let go of any residual hope they will change, apologise and or say sorry.

Use kennels for the dogs, rather that than your parents. You owe them nothing, let alone a relationship here. You do not have to answer the phone if they call.

It may be that your dad could be biding him time here and call you at a more unexpected time. You still do not have to answer the phone if he calls. In the meantime enjoy the silence!.

@Lurkylurks money is the only bargaining chips these wackos have, the reason they do it is to keep you dangling, they are judging you by their own behavior.
My siblings have sponged off my parents half their adult lives and keep dancing in the hope of a huge pay out at the end, my parents love the power of it.
My parents know their 3 children hate them, money is the only reason my siblings tolerate them, typical narc shit and I don't trust that they won't pull some nasty move at the end.
I am prepared for nothing, they never gave me anything and I am now repaying them with nothing, no contact, no love, no gifts, no nothing, at a time in their life when they most need me. Karma.
Don't get me wrong I would love a huge lump sum so my husband and I will have a comfy secure retirement and God knows i have earned every penny but I don't have the energy, to deal with the bullshit and drama anymore, ever hopeful though lol

Thank you @AttilaTheMeerkat and @binkie163 . I just feel a bit abandoned right now. My sisters are tight and one of them is annoyed with me as I sent the wrong kind of message to her on the day her divorce was finalised, she also thinks I premeditated my argument with my mother and as such my other sister will likely think they same. I reached out to them after the argument and was met with 1 leaving me on read, and the one who is annoyed with me saying she didn't think she could support me given that we are not in a great position. I haven't spoken with my brother as my parents keep him close, (hes the favourite, they do alot of free labour for him on his house reno and he has a golden boy grandchild).

I've been here before in 2011/ 2012 when no one was there for me and I was in a much worse spot then. I was financially ruined by the exh, I was homeless and I had no family support, and I didn't have the dogs until exh was fed up with them.

I now have a wonderful partner, we own a house that we love, I have the dogs full time, i am mentally stronger than back then and we have a good life. So why do I feel like this? Is it the feeling of finiteness?

I prob should also add here that my parents are typical money driven parents. They don't show love, they throw money at things/ problems. Neither of my sisters are speaking to them for their own reasons and my dad remarked to one that if the other didn't sort it out with them (they are in the wrong there) she could go and get f**ked with regards to money. Money is their control now as they don't have much else.

Is my feeling because I'm used to the money that I'm probably cut off that way now so grieving that loss too?

Oh and as soon as I got home that day I was downloading multiple pet sitting apps. It's a cost hit that we will have to take but for me to be free of them/ working around them it will be worth it.......

@Gt1986 sounds like my family..really toxic dysfunctional..
I have had to go NC. I feel better, more free. Go very LC or NC... you aren't benefitting from anything atm.

Thanks @binkie163. Hope you do get something in the end as you deserve it as compensation for coping with all the stress and trauma - but you are definitely right to detach from all that and keep yourself free from being feeling beholden to them.

@Gt1986 there is no guarantee that I will inherit, both in 90's and not in good health, one or both may end up in nursing home so at 12-16k a month it will eat through their house and dads pension in 4 years, they will have to self fund and fore go all their extravagant spending or poncing off me for stuff, they always want something.
My siblings have always benefitted and are bitter and angry at having to help out to make sure their inheritance isn't spent. I always provided phone support, paperwork, emotional support and conversation from afar.
I don't know if I am in their will or not but I no longer care, yes I will be hurt if not after years of being the good/kind daughter. I will be far more angry/hurt if I spend another 1-5 years being kind and receive nothing, it isn't worth the aggro, drama, their constant lies, the hours sorting shit out and listening to them moan non stop about everything, they are really nasty about my siblings calling them spongers, wasters and huge disappointments and yet left them in charge, it's laughable really. I have worked hard and done well for myself, I have been penalized for that as it made me less dependent on them.
I would rather deal with it now than waste another second on them or be humiliated at the end if it turns out everything left to the church or some other up yours gesture.

@Lurkylurks as my American friend would say 'they can kiss my pa-tooty' it is my only revenge after so many years of their shit. Knowing they can't call me to bitch and moan or emotionally dump on me most days. If they are now feeling just a tiny bit of the hurt, frustration, anger, anxiety, insecurity and loneliness they caused me all my life it is worth it. Having been kind and forgiving towards them all these years, I no longer feel the need to forgive them further....they don't and never did deserve me.

So much anger being expressed here. And of course we have every right to be angry as hell for the shit we've had to put up with and the damage done.

Still, it's poisonous stuff and I had to really work at letting go of the anger. Sometimes I would be so furious I would just sit and cry.

It took me a very long time to get a handle on it, and it took a lot of mindful practice. Trying to divert my thoughts to pleasant things. Going out and looking at flowers, for example. Even if they were in a bucket in M&S or growing out of a crack in the pavement. Trying to concentrate on how amazing the flower was (rather than how I'd like to burn down my entire family of origin).

I had an excellent meditation teacher which was a life saver.

Still, I am very much approving of @binkie163 's friends phrase 'they can kiss my pa-tooty'.

@Sicario I don't find anger a negative emotion, I find it motivates, energizes and keeps me focused. That drive has seen me perform miracles and excel in business.
Being sad or crying sap my energy, lead to anxiety and procrastinating.
I am high functioning autistic so I don't do nuance, I keep my emotions simple. Touching base with my little box of anger keeps NC much easier, less open to weakness or being hoovered back in. Binkie x

@Lurkylurks my parents used to 'joke' that they were spending my inheritance. Along with barbed comments about how on earth was I managing to make ends meet etc.
It was definitely a way of their trying to control me and it was very satisfying to be able to tell them I didn't need their money and they could leave it to the dogs home if they wanted. I hope you're able to walk away from them too.

Thanks @Parentalalienation. Yes I left at 18 and am in my mid forties now and live in a different country to them.I haven't had money off them nor asked for it. I feel free...apart from all the guilt, shame and unexpressed rage that is. Just amazes me that people seem to swallow the story that I am this greedy money grabber when they live in a nice house with lots of money and I live in a rented, fairly shabby, flat. Or maybe they don't, or haven't been told that, and I am just being paranoid. Good for you for walking away too.

Good on you, @Lurkylurks yes it's amazing the yarns they spin and people believe it because they're not being shown an alternative. Mine had people at the church in the next village convinced that I still lived with them and needed looking after, when I'd actually gone to university and never gone back! This all came out because I bumped into one of the ladies in Pets at Home buying dog food and the whole tale came out...

@Parentalalienation !! What did the lady you bumped into in pets at home say to that?

I always try to keep everything that’s going on to myself as don’t want to be in situations where I have to explain things and then there’s the uncomfortable silence or they presume you are lying 😰

Moved away to another area so the questions no longer happen as no one knows me here.

@Tbry she looked astonished (because my parents did not do pets in any shape or form) and said 'do you not live at home then?' And I clarified that I indeed did not. And then the whole novel was told! Not a simple misunderstanding but years of cracking on that I was ill, needed looking after etc etc.

Just need to air…

I am NC with 2 of my siblings and have lots of childhood trauma from them. They are both over 20 years older than me so it wasn’t the usual sibling bickering but long term bullying by them and their spouses, then some of their children joined in. I cut ties with one of them 20 years ago and the other one 2 years ago.

Whenever I visit my mother (who still lives in the same house I grew up in and the same city as these 2 siblings) a lot of feelings and memories come up. Feelings like anger, sadness, betrayal, loneliness. I also feel angry at my mother for not being there for me but I know she was caught up in it all and also had many health issues. The rational part of my brain tells me that she tried her best and she did. She helped me get an education so I could do more for myself. She was uneducated (can barely read and write) was married off young and had my siblings when she was just 17 and 19 years old. I know she did the most she could have done with the resources she had.

But, I can’t shake these feelings away when I visit her. It’s like I am transported back to my younger self and relive the feelings that all the bullying brought with it. She talks about when my siblings last visited or when she met up with them - just in passing and general chit chat which makes me feel awful. They are quite awful to her too and she vents about this - saying how as a mother she feels stuck with them. My father died a few years ago so she has no one to vent to so I feel obliged to listen. But I find it extremely painful. She also tells me that both my siblings don’t understand what my problem is with them. Then I go off on an angry rant about all the things that have happened between us.

I have young children, my mother is old and I don’t want my visits to her to be dictated by my toxic siblings who I have no contact with. I can see why some people go NC with their entire family! It feels like the toxic family members manage to dictate all family interactions wether I see them or not.

I space out my visits to my mother to about once every 3 or 4 months. She is only a few hours away on the train. I feel guilty about not visiting her more and a part of me would like to but I am trying to make my mental health a priority - especially for my young children.