September 2023 - well we took you to Stately Homes

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' back in December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.
Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker
The Echo Society

There are also one or two less public offshoots of Stately Homes, PM AttilaTheMeerkat or toomuchtooold for details.

Some books:

Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione
Childhood Disrupted by Donna Jackson Nazakawa

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be given with warmth and support

@binkie163 i looked up trauma bonding the other day. EYE OPENING. It explains Hag family dynamics perfectly. Certainly explains Slave Son and Mr Monkey, although he totally gets the sick dynamics now, wanting to make her house nice. Ghost is the best analogy, that's what Slave Son is.

It's pitiful. He used to have to deal with Hag seven days a week in person, with a further two phone calls a day (minimum), she would gatescrash his house and let feral cats in, although since she's become infirm it’s only two days a week, plus phone calls. The classic was my hairdresser saying “I saw your mother in law screaming at her son again the other day in Tesco”. This has been Slave Son’s life for the past decade.

@MonkeyfromManchester
I learned Phillip Larkins poem young.

Man hands on misery to man.
It deepens like a coastal shelf.
Get out as early as you can,
And don’t have any kids yourself.

@binkie163 the girl I shared my desk with in A Level Eng Lit centuries ago sent me that in a little frame 🤣

@tonewbeginnings Christmas and New Year are both very tough for me too. I really do dread them even in a good year.

Have very simple plans with my DP each year and adult child which I should be able to manage. But then I remember the very very big Christmas get togethers as a child with grandparents, aunts, uncles and cousins. I come from a big family and was brought up to believe families always stick together. But apart from my grandparents who have passed away all of the rest of them don’t see me and most haven’t spoken to me in over 30 years now. I get a Christmas card from some of them some years.

And then I remember the utterly awful times at home at Christmas, the rows and so on. Since therapy and me, trying to calmly over many months, reevaluating my childhood from an adult perspective one of the worst was actually the year my father was absent and missing for over two weeks and being told to cover for the younger children and say he’s working etc. So I’m really terribly worried sick about where my father is as this was completely not normal and also having to tell lies to my siblings. I was actually worried that he had died and I was going to get told the truth in January. No one else remembers this, and one sibling who I have spoken to about this in the past thinks I’ve imagined it all. With hindsight at least me covering worked and they did not have their Christmas ruined with sadness and terrible worrying.

The last week I have just been getting the parcels of gifts ready to send off to all the family and friends who currently aren’t speaking to me, it’s been very hard. My siblings have not spoken to me on the phone for nearly 2 years now and only once in person for one of them when I was forced to visit their home with their conditions in place so I was a nervous wreck.

Just get so sad that my life has deteriorated to this level.

So for anyone else also struggling at least it’s not too long until January, I do a countdown in my head to January instead when it’s all over and I don’t have to think about it anymore and the bad memories popping into my mind.

@MonkeyfromManchester ’Heartbreaking to see MM thinking chucking out filthy mugs and cutlery and getting new stuff for her disgusting home is going to make things OK, but this is how he copes. This home-making is about his awful childhood. So long as he stands firm - which he will - he can do what he likes. He get her stuff from Selfridges so long as her vile frame doesn't cross this threshold.’

This part sounds like me. He is doing the very best he can with what he was given as a child, I think it comes back to some of us like this. It definitely does me.

Since being kicked out as a teenager I have moved a lot, been homeless, moving every six months etc etc etc. But the first thing I do is try to make everything liveable and put my things in place. I have a permanent address now finally but now I have time to analyse myself I realised this is linked to my childhood for all the wrong reasons.

Last year we were in the middle of decorating and had a new piece of furniture arriving. We had to move the stuff around downstairs at least ten times and I realised partner, doing things completely normally, moves the stuff forgets about it until next part of decorating is done so say a couple of days time. But after he leaves the room as everything was only temporary I get everything set up in place again. I did this at least twenty different times with the coasters, the table, the lamp, etc, etc ,etc. Exhausting, especially emotionally and I kept bursting into tears. Also felt like completely crazy behaviour TBH but until it was habitable and in place I couldn’t cope. It’s like a ritual that I have to do each time.

@MonkeyfromManchester thanks for mentioning trauma bonding. I just look it up on the Internet and was shocked at how well it describes my past childhood and also many relationships I had in the past that follows exactly the same pattern.
To the point that I find difficult to identify my needs. I don't know sometimes who I am or even if my values and opinions are valid.
I can see the level of confusion I have and that's what's killing me.
The only thing I managed to do well was to marry my DH who did not add to the rollocoaster I always lived in, he was the first man who treated me well and at the start I was even confused by it. I had terrible past relationships with men gosthing, dismissing, love bombing/ disappearing. With DH everything was good and predictable from the start. He behaves rationally, with integrity and is not afraid of others disagreeing with him.
That has been the biggest eye opener for me. My DH and DC has given me an opportunity to live a different live. The one I wanted ro have.
For 2024 I would like to have enough courage to start therapy. I know I badly need it. And it really scares me. Letting all my past out. But I feel so much anger against my mother I need to do something. On the outside I have many friends, have a good job and behave cheerfully. But I'm full of insecurity and have a lot of anxiety. I need to address it. And my NM is alive and only in her 70s. I need to learn how to cope until she is gone.
Thank you all of you for keep posting. X

That was a really long post sorry!

@girlswillbegirls I think that’s how my life used to also be with my dysfunctional family and upbringing and then completely horrendous relationships. I was a victim of grooming, coercive behaviour and domestic violence for a decade, which I now realise if my childhood had been different I would not have suffered.

Nowadays I have a reliable partner, a wonderful adult child and a life hundreds of miles away from everyone and everything I knew growing up. I still get very sad that I have to live with just two people in a place I don’t know and still miss all of my family every single day but it was the only way I could escape.

Thanks very much @Tbry I also moved to another country many many years ago and it was the best decision I made. I really needed to live away from my NM. I am also really grateful for my DC, DH and everyone I got to know here. Wishing you all the best xx

@Tbry thank you. Hugs to you. Home, as a survivor of abuse, is incredibly important and I totally understand why you were arranging things. It’s reassuring and soothing you. I'm really glad you've found someone who loves you and cares for you.

@girlswillbegirls thank you. I'm glad you've got a great partner. With therapy, go for it. Have a read about it on the BACP website - Brit Assoc of Counsellors and Psychotherapists. You can search for accredited counsellors in your area. You always get a free 30 mins to try a counsellor out and see if the feel right for you.

Mr Monkey went into therapy after a completely uncharacteristic angry outburst at me. Shouting. I went to hug him and he pushed me. It was nothing like him. It was about his family, not me. He found a counsellor the next day who specialises in trauma. It has been the making of him. He's got boundaries, sees the patterns, game-playing, and can talk openly about his family. He's been diagnosed with PTSD. He is a much happier person.

Does anyone ever get these sudden feelings of wanting revenge? It’s silly I know but sometimes I feel so wound up by playing things over in my head.

I recently stumbled on a family members profile on social media and they are now an ‘equality and diversity officer’ training school kids and teachers on anti-racism.
You might be wondering what is wrong with that. This person and their partner disowned me (their sibling) after I married someone from a different race citing that it is wrong to marry someone from a different race. They cut off all contact and I didn’t see my nieces or nephews for years until they were adults at my dad’s funeral. I was told I would be a terrible influence on them in a mixed race marriage. Then I was told by my sibling that I should make an effort to get to know my nieces and nephews as it’s my duty as their aunt. How can people like this be so hypocritical and sleep at night?!

Taking a few deep breaths and rant over but I needed to get that off my chest! I wish karma was a real thing!

Hi everyone, newbie here struggling with mum & Dad. I'm in my 50s & still feel guilted into doing the eight thing as dutiful eldest daughter. After inviting themselves for Xmas when we already have recently bereaved FIL staying I admit feeling coerced into hosting. They are not pleasant guests. We have had a hard year financially (as many others have) & my sister suggested we don't get gifts this year so we can focus on a nice Xmas Day together & just buying food, drink etc. My mum went crazy shouting & kicking off because she wouldnt have a pressy. My sis & i just value quality time together. . It's her 80th in Dec & part of the financial situation was that we have planned a nice trip out fir mum, had a cake made, bought tickets to a show etc as my Dad does fuck all for anyone's birthday & often is busy doing his hobby. After a visit today, I said I'd see mum on her birthday & tried to jolly things up by saying "not long till your birthday' etc & she kicked off again. She's like a child in a strop saying "oh no, (sis) said we're not doing Xmas gifts so my birthday's no different!'. I feel so upset & angry. I am always dutiful eldest daughter & get sod all emotional or practical support from my mum who I believe is a narcissist. For context, parents don't ever mark our birthdays with more than a card & the odd gift that we have to specify around £20. They are comfortably off. On my big birthdays Dad has intentionally booked holidays so they haven't been around. I feel so torn _ mum does "poor me" as Dad can be twatty at times but they are both so selfish & self absorbed. I wonder on what grounds people eventually go NC?.After therapy I realised I have CPTSD from a traumatic childhood which has never ever been acknowledged so I have reduced contact to around once a month (we only live about 15miles apart(. I feel vad that I would be relieved to not have this shit feeling every time I see them.

@tonewbeginnings OMG. Appalling. That's AWFUL.

I've really wrestled with the idea of revenge on my vile MIL. My revenge now is supporting my partner to psychologically get out of his hideous family and for us to live our lives in a good way.

@Turtlerunner the narcs just take your breath away, don't they? I think people go LC or NC depending how it will affect them. Mr Monkey is aware that NC is an option but would feel too bad if he did this. He is very LC now with his hideous mother.

I saw The Hag yesterday. Mr Monkey is feeling really low and anxious so I went with him to see her in hospital yesterday afternoon. 45 minutes.

I didn't feel anxious, I just felt contempt for her. She's destroyed her own life and wanted to do this to MM.

So, we had

“I don't know who I am anymore”
“I don't want the carers doing more for me”

MM was really clear and kept saying there is no choice.

“The house is filthy, there was mouldy food everywhere (bin sacks full) and your clothes were so dirty that we couldn't wash them clean and they are now in the bin.”

Once upon a time he would have thought all of that as HIS fault and he would have been ashamed and not spoken it aloud.

Social workers WILL be involved. He didn't buckle under pressure. I just sat and listened. I felt detatched.

The best was:

“I don't want to go home when I get out of hospital.”

Repeated A LOT.

Rather let that hint hang in the air - the hint is ‘can I come and live with you?’ - MM just coolly asked:

“So, where do you want to go?”

Silence. Beseeching eyes.

“Oh, I don't know. I just don't want to go back there.”

The woman is utterly pathetic.

She will be going back to her flat, she will use the Carers more, if she doesn't, I will get social services involved again on the grounds of self-neglect.

We also had a bit of Christmas bollocks.

“I’m not looking forward to Christmas*. What are you doing?”

“monkey’s family are over from The Netherlands and staying at Mummy Monkey’s so we’re going there. You're invited to a New Year’s Day meal at Monkey Towers”

“I’ll see how I feel”

Later in the pub, Mr Monkey said he doesn't want to deal with her on New Year’s Day.

He had continuous nightmares last night. I detest his family so much for what they've done to him. But I'm so proud of him for getting therapy and the boundaries he's put in place.

*Her Xmas hair appointment is booked for 19 Dec so she obviously thinks she's going somewhere. 🤣 She thinks we can't see the games.

Aaaaaagh. This is driving me mad. Mr Monkey is stressed / depressed / guilty today.

He feels he's not doing anything.I've just told him that guilt is a pointless emotion.

I've said he can't make her life better. She rejects help.

He's bought her a new kitchen bin - the bin isn't the problem in her not throwing her rubbish out - and some film to put up on her kitchen windows to replace the newspapers stuck up. She believes people are spying on her, she lives on the 7th floor, FFS.

His mother has made her life awful deliberately. She's an adult. Her matrydom isn't his responsibility.

He’s getting dragged back in. This BS has to stop.

Argh. I understand it’s really frustrating to watch someone going through abuse and appearing to resist protecting themselves or caring for themselves. Unfortunately though basically our entire childhood will have been repeatedly having it beaten into us either literally or figuratively that we don’t deserve anything good, that we are there to reflect on, please and amuse our parents or just serve as a punching bag depending on the day, time or weather. While those in abusive marriages often have more concentrated or physically harmful abuse (by no means always) if you’ve had a childhood which was at least baseline healthy, even if not always so, you’ve got a very different starting point to someone who is always going to have that gaping desire to please, the terror of rejection, the conviction that they’re worthless - all instilled by someone who is supposed to love and protect them unconditionally. MM has probably been inculcated with the belief that he should be putting his mother before himself. I was told in the mental hospital though that trauma patients who have had partner or family abuse generally feel like placating their abusers is a matter of life a death.

Hi and welcome @Turtlerunner . Is there anyway your parents can stay home for Christmas or go to your sisters? You are already hosting your FIL , suggest you just pop over to see them for a cup of tea and a mince pie on Christmas Eve or Boxing Day instead. That way they cannot ruin your day. Also if you don’t have the expense of hosting you can get your mum a £10 gift so she cannot accuse you of not buying her a gift.

@Turtlerunner the problem with narc parents is that whatever you do it won’t be good enough. At age 50 you should do what’s right for you for Christmas day.

In terms of LC or NC, something that’s working for me is gradually going lower contact. This has been to varying degrees with my parents and siblings. It can get quite complicated seeing some family members and not others so going lower contact with all of them has helped.

Be warned for potential drama if you do decide to reduce contact. I wasn’t prepared and it caused a 6 month long bout of mental health setbacks for me. One of my narc brothers flipped out as I was his current target for scapegoating and bullying. So it’s led to NC with him and it’s been 2.5 years since I last saw him. My self confidence has gone up, I’m doing more with my career and enjoying time with my kids and partner now but going NC initially was an incredibly difficult thing to go through.

I hadn’t realised quite how much self sabotage I was doing by maintaining contact with my FOO until I went very LC. Space and distance has given me perspective and I’m tapping into the real me under all the trauma. It’s like I had to learn to like myself!

@tonewbeginnings I don’t get an urge for revenge but I do get a wanting of some sort of acknowledgment or her admitting what she has done. I know it will never happen but it annoys me as it’s like she’s always going to “win” on that. As for the rest of your post fingers crossed for that karma. I’m sure they are well versed in pulling the wool over peoples eyes and feeling smug knowing what they are really like.

Hearing you all on the Christmas predicament. We’re hosting as usual. I did toy with the idea of not having them over but the guilt of lumbering my dad and brother with her got to me. I’m not bothering with a present for her. Usually a few days after Xmas she’ll break her gift then give it back to me with the accusation that I’ve bought her cheap rubbish.

@MonkeyfromManchester I do understand your hubbys behaviour. It’s ingrained into you that if you do something right and please her then she’ll be nice to you and all of the nastiness will stop. We know deep down it won’t but that need for trying is strong, especially with the heightened emotions of her being in hospital and the organising of care and feeling responsible etc.

My going low contact is going fairly well at the moment. I saw her once last week as I had previously arranged to help my dad with something. I think she thought that was her cue to “go back to normal” so she phoned me that evening to ask me to do something for her. I said no so she kicked off and I put the phone down. I’ve not heard from her since. Part of me is relieved and part of me is a bit upset that she’s not shown any concern about me or why I’m upset & going low contact. My brother has said she has been very quiet with him this week too. I kind of feel like she’s plotting her next move so I’ll keep myself prepared of that.

Just wanted to send out some good vibes for all on stately homes tonight. I went to my old uni chapel where I predictably ended up in tears and returned home walking on eggshells not knowing whether I’d done something wrong but being welcomed back means more to me than I can say and was more than worth the anxiety. My cat has had a good explore of my mother’s room while I’m out and I’m doing that doubling thing where I replicate her behaviour for utterly different reasons - she is offended the cat doesn’t prefer her and I’m terrified my little friend won’t be there at the door tomorrow because I’ve caught up with my bigger friends. Sympathy to recent posters - you’re all being super strong. Sorry to have no better advice xx

@BlastAroundTheOutside sorry you are stuck hosting, I realise I’m ‘lucky’ in some ways as hundreds of miles from my hometown plus no one currently wants to speak to me or see me. If the presents consistently get broken and used against you go for non breakables such as plants, books, food, toiletries.

@CeciledeVolangesdeNouveau I also have no input or advice for anyone I am afraid. It’s awful reading about everyone else’s situations but at the same time such a relief to know I’m not the only one.

Just trying to deal with my own daily onslaught of crap aimed at me. Todays highlights being my nice step parent messaging me (would normally be nice) but kicked my actual parent out in the summer, won’t let them into their own house and has filed for a divorce. So now I’m getting all these friendly texts, letters, gifts so feels a bit like love bombing (not sure what that feels like but could be this) or feels like it to me. So far too much for me to handle whilst my poor parent is not allowed access to the house, their belongings or warm clothes. Said parent won’t tell me where they are staying and is avoiding speaking to me so I’m in constant over worrying mode. After my parents very very hideous divorce I’m not mentally up to going through anything that traumatic ever again. So not handling it well all on my own.

Alongside all the family stuff my friend of 30plus years is also ignoring me. Today I also got a response to a message from them but it all just feels fake and nasty. I have a feeling deep down that the friendship may have always been slightly one sided and I was being used (maybe I’m just not sure) and because of my family toxicity I never realised. I’m just now seeing similarities between how my family are and how my friend is now being.

So I literally feel like I can’t trust anyone and I don’t want to speak to any human beings ever again.

Oh @Tbry I’m sorry. So many conflicting feelings and none of them nice.

To me a fairly consistent element of what I perceive in hindsight to have been love bombing is the feeling of finally being rewarded for doing something right or being valued, or if it’s a romantic partner that they’ve finally realised you’re right for them and want to make things up for you. Being manipulative though isn’t necessarily love bombing.

Re friends I REALLY hope this isn’t going to come off patronising, belittling, whatever because I get ignored by my friends all the time and sometimes it is actually that they just don’t want to have to deal with me any more. But other times they’re just busy dealing with their own shit. I have a friend I contact fairly often and she has the capacity to respond with a WhatsApp emoji, that’s it, but I saw her today and she was so lovely. I have another friend I would reach out to every few months and it took her three years to get back to me. I feel like a waste of space and like I’m annoying them all the time but it’s honestly worth it to have friends. My OH was just having a tantrum the other night about how people don’t care about him if they don’t reach out but to me it’s not the fact that you have to reach out, it’s the fact that someone reaches back to me that matters.

i hope all that was OK to say.

@CeciledeVolangesdeNouveau of course that was OK to say 💐

With my step parent I’m not sure what term to use as I’m not sure what they are after yet. My parent has a lot of us children and I’m the only child that my step parent now speaks too. They married when we were all adults.

I think they are after details or something about my parent so trying to keep me on side, if that makes sense. I can’t really explain as I don’t understand myself. It’s possible they are just trying to be nice to me but due to my upbringing and lack of trust I think there’s something else afoot, but even my DP is starting to comment that it does feel strange.

I don’t know what to say as this is obviously a deep and important subject I don’t understand. How about just being completely upfront with the stepsiblings? We’ll obviously support you whichever way you go. But it might need a bit of mental preparation for being upfront as that’s what is realistically necessary in this type of scenario.

@CeciledeVolangesdeNouveau thank you for that wisdom. There was no comfort for Mr Monkey as a child. The only decent memories he has are of living with his aunt and uncle for a while. I can't work out why - probably, the Hag palming him off. She kept Slave Son, step son, and MM’s brother. Despite the rejection, MM had a lovely time with his aunt and uncle in a normal happy family. His nasty brother was jealous and badgered the Hag to bring him home. It's so screwed up.

I hope you have a better week spending time with the kitty and your OH.

@Tbry can you get some counselling to help as this situation is bringing up flasbacks? Hugs to you.

@BlastAroundTheOutside I hear you. Xmas is so grim for so many of us. I want next year to be without Hag and just a time without the drama.

I'm appalled by your mother. You could always make a donation to a charity on her behalf. “Oh those poor children/donkeys etc”. You can have a laugh at the idea of her being charitable.

Low contact is the best thing that MM has done for himself. That and therapy. It's hard to maintain it. He's really struggling with the worry of it. He's unbelievably anxious. It's awful to see. I need to support him as much as possible so he doesn't slip back. I'm angry at Slave Son for having no backbone to challenge the Hag. Phoning social services this morning again to get the ball rolling.

Her entitlement where she thinks she can come here is off the scale. We work from home frequently. What are we supposed to do? Have her here? She can't get up the stairs to go to the bathroom.

Last time - FINAL TIME - she expected a constant stream of tea and meals.

She had the TV ON full blast so MM had to work in the cold conservatory. She'd go and stare at him. “You don't spend any time with me”

She slept in our bed.

She screamed and shouted. It was AWFUL. NO way is this happening again.

She's going back to that flat and if she doesn't use the Carers, it's a care home. The reason she won't use the Carers is that she wants to drag MM back into her evil orbit.