September 2023 - well we took you to Stately Homes

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' back in December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.
Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker
The Echo Society

There are also one or two less public offshoots of Stately Homes, PM AttilaTheMeerkat or toomuchtooold for details.

Some books:

Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione
Childhood Disrupted by Donna Jackson Nazakawa

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be given with warmth and support

Don't worry, @CeciledeVolangesdeNouveau! I just couldn't face explaining all the dreary issues again. (In fact most of it wasn't even on this thread so you couldn't know.) I so agree that acquaintances can be the kindest. Thank you.

@BluebellsForest (sorry, I’m really disorganised in my replying) I also want to add some very strong empathy for the cycle you’re experiencing. I’ve been in it too clever since I’ve been old enough to leave home. From the outside, to normal people, it probably looks perplexing because I get out of the abusive, dangerous environment and completely nosedive, but with abusive people they often infantilise you, take away your independence, control you, exacerbate your mental health issues and it all comes crashing down on you once you’re “safe”. Loads of internet hugs.

Thank you, that's so kind. That does ring bells. I lived abroad for a year with LC and that was my chance. I blew it due to other factors causing severe anxiety so I went 'home'.

That is so sad, @HoraceGoesBonkers, and quite chilling. Just awful.

@BluebellsForest I don’t know why clever showed up in my answer - sorry! I just want to chastise you VERY gently for saying you blew it when you were abroad - that’s such a lot of pressure at the best of times even with people who haven’t had your experiences, and if I’m correct that LC is little children that’s even more tricky. Sometimes nature and nurture together load the gun and it just takes that extra bit of circumstance to pull the trigger.

By the way, I share your wariness about the word “home”. I’m currently at my parents’ house again (if any veteran poster recognises me you can have the whole saga) but I only call it my parents’ house. Never home. To make matters worse my mother is now in the process of buying my grandparents’ house which IS a home. To borrow a very Gen Z phrase let’s normalise not calling our parents’ houses homes!

I remember you well from previous writings Cecile. What you wrote re your parents and they are not worthy of the term, is shocking.

@AttilaTheMeerkat thank you for replying! You’ll be very pleased to know I did finally get out (my mother was cautioned for GBH against my father) and less pleased to know I am now back, in a bizarre incident in my new shared house I answered the door to a stranger, teenage boy, whose girlfriend needed first aid in a nearby park. I went out to help but according to the landlady this was unacceptable as my older, stronger five male housemates were put at risk by my opening the door so she gave me 30 days’ notice and I didn’t have the savings to find a new place and put down a deposit :/ I’m going to follow this thread and share if it might be useful to others but I’ll try to keep the sharing of my own stuff minimal. I appreciate all of you and hope you’re OK!

Cecile

Sounds like this landlord used a really crap excuse to get rid of you. Dreadful behaviour on the part of that woman.

I hope you manage to find another place to live in soon.

I'd be very interested in anything you'd like to share @CeciledeVolangesdeNouveau.

By LC I was meaning 'low contact' with my mum. I don't have children. I was caring for my aunt who had terminal cancer and wanted to stay at home to die. I was able to fulfil her wishes, but there were so many extra layers of craziness and stress on top of that. My mum was so vile on the phone that I had may be 2 further phone calls with her in the next 9 months. I was aware that 11,000 miles was about the right distance for me, but the other stuff took over. I'm not really blaming myself for 'blowing it'. I was caring for my mum's sister, and oh my the generational shit show that revealed.

The ending up back in the parents' house thing is a pattern for me too, @CeciledeVolangesdeNouveau.
It's so odd, but it also somehow makes sense. I'm sorry that you were scapegoated at your rental, and hope you can get out again soon 💜

Welcome, of course you are the ‘one’ and all the rest are fine. That’s probably how many of us lived our childhoods as that’s how we were all made to feel. We are all the rotten eggs according to others, but really we are nice supportive humans.

My father was the black sheep of his family and I’m the black sheep of mine. So I lost all of his huge family first in my early teens (they are speaking to dad decades later as it suits them) and now I’ve lost most of mine…..bearing in mind I was always treated differently anyway.

Before it got to this I’ve been the (these are all derogatory comments and in no way a compliment and usually get about six thrown my way all at the same time from all directions)

clever one/ difficult one/ over sensitive one/ emotional one/the arguments happen when you enter the room one/ the generous one/ the kind one/the caring one/bossy one/ horrible older sister one/the oldest child that no one wants who was a mistake one/ and a million and one other things. 🤪…..all of which I internalised and literally destroyed me. But many of their toxic descriptions of me in reality are a lot of my good traits it’s just my family that think they are negatives.

My father is linked to a lot of my past problems but occasionally he does come up with a good bit of advice here and there….in his 7th decade and mellowed. He was also being ignored by the majority at the time and he said you can sit there all day every day for months waiting for a phone call and there won’t be one, or you can still think about it but keep it at the back of your mind and get on with your day and try to enjoy five minutes doing something.

He’s currently not spoken to me in 6 months ( has called my DP and my DC who have passed messages to me) but however horrifically sad I am feeling by the rest of them and now him I’m trying to stick to the get up, get dressed try to find joy somewhere routine as it was a good bit of advice.

💐

I agree some of my posts read as if it’s very clear cut but it’s taken me 5 decades living with my family, abuse and DV trauma and other stuff as a teenager from awful men due to lack of ‘parents’, suicidal and over low parts as a teen, trust issues always, a breakdown a few years ago so bad I couldn’t get up, and a diagnosis of C-PTSD, severe anxiety, agoraphobia and severe depression and then a little therapy to reach the level where I can even tell anyone…..and that’s anonymously on this thread.

And still at the back of my mind I do think it must be me 😭

Please be very kind to yourselves and as I now know try to feel the feelings (I had to block it all) and try to learn what they are what they are telling you. 💐💐💐

It’s definitely not trivial at all. What options are available to you, and no worrying about your mum as she’s been assessed and she’s fine alone. This is your time now.

I have rages at times (words and tears) especially if I ask people to give me some space and they ignore me, it’s like it’s all this toxic stuff stuck on the inside trying to get out.

You are now homeless the LA will have options available to help.

@BluebellsForest ps was not meaning to seem dismissive in case it reads like that I have been homeless myself.

happy 52nd birthday to you 🎂….and onwards and upwards enjoying a peaceful quiet life!

some options I can think of if you can travel around, I think you mentioned before you had transport, (these are all things I’ve considered even recently as I have emergency cash and clothes tucked away).

some caravan sites out of season do maintenance so you can sometimes stay there and help, do a bit of stuff get somewhere to sleep sort of thing. If you want a new start head to a cheaper part of the country so every £1 can go further….I’m in the SE so anywhere apart from here.

A work colleague ages ago was going through a bad patch with husband and managed to rent a holiday type lodge (think house with mini self catering properties in garden) for the OOS months. She paid half the amount standard rent elsewhere would be so was getting her through a few months and picking up bits of reduced food here and there. She also did not have to pay utilities or council tax so overall was saving her far more than I think she realised as her husband did the bills at home.

How fit are you? Some jobs are accommodation and food for help think working farms. Lambing season will soon be here that sort of thing.

And as I said these , the last one U can’t do due to health problems, are not just quick suggestions they’ve been in my mind for myself for a few years since my breakdown. As I could do with a couple of years of peace and quiet alone no phone somewhere rural where I feel more at peace. I like silence.

@BluebellsForest just read you cared for an elder relation. Have a read through share my home you get accommodation they get company.

Hi All. I saw this thread recommended to someone so popped over as I have a controlling, manipulative mum.

Reading through the first few pages was like ticking off a checklist of my mum’s behaviour. Threatening suicide, wanting to be in control of every part of my life and faking illness etc. I may write another post about these later. More to have a rant and get it off my chest than anything.

Theres a couple behaviours I haven’t seen mentioned so interested if anyone else has experienced them. More when I was a teen and she bought my clothes but still tries to do it now, she’ll buy herself the exact same clothes and pass comments like “people will think we’re sisters”. She also tried to get invited to meals out etc with friends from school “just think of me as one of the girls” she genuinely thinks she passes for much younger than she is but it was also a good way to stop me being invited out and having friends.

She also seems to be the opposite of what people describe here. She overly praises me. Comes out with made up stories of how people / her friends are so amazed by me. I suppose the motherly equivalent of love bombing. Boasts about everything and I have to be seen as better than everyone else but she uses it to boast about herself, Look at this magnificent thing I’ve produced type attitude. In real life I’m fairly normal so she has to invent impressive jobs or qualifications which I’m expected to go along with.

The main reason I’m here is I have a couple of questions. I’m currently starting low contact as she’s turned partially nasty over the last few months. How do you go about this? Do you tell them or just implement it and hope they realise? I have told her I would rather not speak to her anymore but she seems to think it’s a hollow threat (Judging me by her standards there) and tries to carry on as if I hadn’t said it.

If I was to go no contact with her does that automatically mean I loose contact with dad and sibling? Currently I’m not allowed to speak to dad on the phone without speaker phone so she can hear all of what is said so I’m not sure how it would all work.

Also thanks to a couple of posters here who have given a bit of insight to the reason behind some of these behaviours. It made a lot of sense.

@BlastAroundTheOutside don’t tell her if you can avoid it, maybe look up grey rock or take advice from other posters here. A narcissist will react really badly to it. Just sort of edge away and fade out if you can.

As for whether you’ll lose contact with other family members, it depends on your parent and on them - how much control, what they’re like, their situation etc. During my periods of NC with my mother I’ve generally managed to stay in contact with my dad, for instance, but my mother has terrorised my grandparents to the point they won’t speak to me and… radicalised my sister to the point that I highly doubt she’ll ever have contact with me again. I’m really sorry you’re in this position and it’s so difficult. Sometimes you have to build walls to protect yourself.

Sorry also @BlastAroundTheOutside some of the other behaviours you describe are heartbreakingly close to what my mother does to me and I’m so sorry you’re going through it. Unfortunately if your mother is that closely following you and taking everything you have your only option is to separate yourself as completely as you can. It’s almost like everything that is yours, they have to take it for themselves or at least away from you. Currently I have a lovely church community I will only join in with if my mother is abroad as she would be straight in there if she knew how much it meant to me, and a lovely boyfriend she is putting all of her effort in to sabotage and control. It’s grim but please know you are worth more than this, keep your life safe and even though it’s so sad to have to let go of family members it will allow you to recover a little and in a few months or years you might be able to rebuild bridges. It’s not impossible that other family members have the same opinion about the toxic one(s) but are afraid to say.

@BlastAroundTheOutside I think the other things you mentioned overly praising, clothes, mixing with your friends group etc……ie controlling your life and making it about her are listed in some of the older threads. I’ve not experienced these things from my own mother though, mines probably the complete opposite as I wasn’t even bought clothes etc.

As for lowering contact do not tell her it will cause her to involve others etc and it will all spiral. Just state you are busy etc and set aside a day and time limit (ie 10minutes) when you are able to talk to her on the phone. Do the same with your dad once a week too, you should be able to talk to him alone, does he have a mobile so you could text him a bit in between? If she’s controlling his phone calls with you I guess he is also controlled in many other ways too.

Does your sibling live at home? If not just start seeing just them, if they do just start calling, emailing, texting them separately. Are they younger or a child?

My parents might have been completely different but the control part was if I was made to leave (I was a child so threatened with boarding school type threats and as it was all holidays I was sent away to stay with other people, my siblings being at home) I would not be allowed contact with my grandparents or younger siblings. And if I wasn’t there I would not know if they were ok or be there to protect them, all the bad stuff being directed at me normally, or check they had been fed (food being one of my mothers issues).

@BluebellsForest brilliant idea @Tbry work with accomodation. I have a friend her marriage went bad, she trained 1 week with an agency to be respite in home carer. Then went self employed after few months, 1k a week to be a live in carer. It gives families holiday time, a week off a month etc usual carers come in 4x day she is there in case at night etc. She stays in lovely places [who can afford extra 1k a week] been doing it 2 years, next year diary already booked up. She is in her 50's she advertised in a magazine called 'the lady' worth getting a copy to check out the adverts as companions also advertise in it.

Thanks but having done three big stints of caring for family, I would take almost any other job. I'm done with caring.

I don't quite know why people think 'oh you've cared for family until they died from cancer? Fancy doing that again but monetising it this time?'

The smell of stale urine takes me straight back to pretty awful times.

Also, those live in jobs can be very heavy going. I've heard so many awful experiences from carers.

Thank you. Yes I have been trying to grey rock. I’m getting better at it and it is helping. I’ve not spoken to her for about 5 days now. I’ve not been the one to contact her for a while now and don’t always answer when she ring me.

That sounds tough that she’s turned the rest of your family against you. I’m lucky in that respect as at the moment they do see her for what she is so understand why I cut contact even if they wish it wasn’t happening.

from your second post when I first got with my partner she phoned him and lied about me but also tried to get him on her side to extend her control of me through him. Thankfully he saw straight through it and put her straight.

fingers crossed your mother doesn’t find out about your church.

Ah thanks I’ll check out the older threads over the next few weeks. I was thinking about it overnight she’s actually praising her ideal version of me rather than the actual me and wasn’t very interested in me. Sorry to hear you had a tough upbringing too.

yes dad and my brother are extremely controlled. I’m lucky as I got out but they both live with her. Mum & dad are both older and not great with phones but I think I could teach him to text.

my brother is actually older but still at home. I am able to message him so that should still continue. Actually meeting him would be a problem as he has to report his wear abouts at all times so she’ll just turn up with him. He’s not able to say no to her.

your mums threats to you sound awful. You shouldn’t have been in a position of having to worry about your siblings well-being.

I can’t get my head around why some people have this extreme need to control.

It’s about entitlement and egotism, I think. They are the centre of the world and right about everything so it’s logical that everyone has to do what they want. “Why does he do this” by Lundy Bancroft was really helpful for me understanding this worldview, it’s about male marital partners but the same worldview is reflected in parents. In some ways it’s really sad for them. Sadder for the victims though - my dad for example is not allowed to have any hobbies whatsoever and business trips are looked on with extreme scorn and suspicion but is teased when he visits his parents and my mother will just periodically walk out on him whereupon he resumes his role as breadwinner and DIY person.