September 2023 - well we took you to Stately Homes

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' back in December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.
Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker
The Echo Society

There are also one or two less public offshoots of Stately Homes, PM AttilaTheMeerkat or toomuchtooold for details.

Some books:

Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione
Childhood Disrupted by Donna Jackson Nazakawa

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be given with warmth and support

The next milestone birthday here is my 50th and after this this year with my son I am dreading it already.

I wish you a happy birthday in advance with lots of 💐🎂 I find being over 50 I give even less of a fig you can’t make somebody else care focus in the people who do xx

Thank you everyone 💐, still sad as my son deserves so much better, he’s a wonderful lovely kind man and he worries about me enough.

Been trying to just get on with my day and not think about it too much but I’m still getting over the flu which has added to it.

I apologised to him last night and said to not take any of it to heart as it’s not aimed at him personally it’s just they have all decided they don’t like me at all anymore. And that I’m very sorry this has happened.

I thought maybe some birthday cards would arrive very late for him but still haven’t. I have everyone’s Christmas presents already bought ready to wrap (a trigger so easier this way). I never miss anyone out especially all my nieces and nephews so to suddenly do this to my son without warning was completely unnecessary. 🤬

If there was a time when I was going to lose the plot and tell each and everyone what I think of them it was now but I have to rise above it somehow and just be me.

Hello, new to this thread though I've observed from a distance in the past. It's really helpful to read but I think it's my time to jump in.

I had an odd childhood, which was ruled by my mother's severe mental illnesses (including various hospital stays) and my dad's way of dealing with it was to keep going and pretend everything was fine.

I don't think either of them were bad people, and they did love me and my sister in their own way, but they were ill equipped for parenthood. I don't think there was any deliberate abuse (unlike narcs for example) but we suffered from the instability and at times intense mood swings from our mother. She could also be very inappropriate and tell us (especially me) things that a child really shouldn't hear.

Both of my parents are now dead but my sister is quite volatile and recently has been behaving badly towards me. There have been many occasions where she's lost the rag over nothing (often things that are her fault, like she loses something and starts screaming at me). Also lately lots of little put downs in company, things like that. I discovered recently she's been holding a grudge against me over something really minor that happened a year ago.

We have previously been close as we were the only ones who understood what the other had been through, but lately I feel like she's turning into our mother (but with an added nasty streak). I think I need to step away for my own sanity.

I have a wonderful partner but no kids. Being honest I'm terrified of having a child like my mother or sister. How do you deal with having nobody really left from your family? I feel so isolated and many of my friends have drifted away since having babies.

I feel like I need to build a network but I'm quite introverted. I worry about the future I have to say. I also don't know what it's like to not have family members in my life causing drama.

Any thoughts or advice are very much appreciated!

Both my parents are now dead. Looking back what I thought was normal really wasn’t and the fact that I put up with my dads aggressive behaviour as an adult is something I wish I could go back on and get another chance with. What I realise now is that I didn’t need to try and calm him down and get him to see reason. I should have told him to stop swearing at me and being abusive. To be civil and if he couldnt be civil we would not communicate with each other. Unfortunately as one of my parents was dying my sibling came out with the exact same abusive behaviour towards me. The Apple doesnt fall far from the tree as they say. However I have grown up children and they would not behave the same way at all. They are very caring people. Your sister was affected by your mother but your children will learn from you. You see the mistakes made in your own family and will not repeat them as you see them as mistakes. Are there no extended family members left eg aunts and uncles and cousins? Only have people in your life if they make you happy. If your sister gets abusive just leave and do it immediately. Limit contact to what you can cope with and if that’s once a year, that’s your call not hers. You don’t need to put up with it as a grown adult. Why not reconnect with your old friends and ask them out for a coffee? You have nothing to lose and loads to gain.

@PJHarvey your sister may be directing rage at you as she can’t do that towards your parents any longer. The problem with childhood trauma is that there can be a lot of anger with no outlet and maybe she is suffering from that. However, this reason is not an excuse as she’s an adult who can take responsibility for how she feels rather than take it out on you.

One of my siblings increased his bullying towards me in the two years after our father passed away. He hasn’t ever addressed his own emotions, actions or life in any way in the past. But, what resulted, was him using me as a punchbag. This lead to quite a severe MH breakdown for me as I was also dealing with some minor setbacks in my life including one of my children developing severe anxiety as a result of the lockdowns in the pandemic. I have now finally gone NC with him and am recovering.

My only advice would be to think seriously about your relationship with your sister. How has it been in the past? Could you go LC and set boundaries with her?

I wish I had gone NC with my brother a long time ago. I was LC for years but in that time he worked hard to ensure that he put me down, gaslit me and picked on me. I thought I was maintaining a sibling relationship that could get better but all relationships are two ways and one person can’t change anything. Even going LC was a big step, but looking back I was scared of not having any family left. In reality I didn’t have or don’t have a family, it was always a bunch of toxic relationships bound biologically. So what I was hanging on to were toxic relationships in the hope that one day they will magically become family.

Something you said resonated with me;
“I'm terrified of having a child like my mother or sister”
I have denied myself many things over a fear of relationships not working out because I haven’t seen good relationships modelled. I didn’t want to have children for this fear but after lots of therapy for my childhood trauma, I decided to have kids. As you said you have a wonderful partner and you are clearly self aware. It would be the same if you have children. I’m not saying you should have children, but that the decision shouldn’t be dictated by a fear of history repeating itself.

For example, when my kid was suffering with anxiety during the lockdowns we didn’t brush it under the carpet, like my parents did for everything in my life. We tried to help by supporting them - we talked to our GP, who suggested therapy. It ended up taking almost 2 years (including 6 months of therapy) to help our kid through it and out the other end. Parenting mindfully when you haven’t had supportive and caring parents yourself is possible.

Good afternoon everyone. Longtime lurker and fellow NC with parents since April 2023. I'm in my 40s and it took me so long to realise how much crap I'd been taking and how Id been treated over the years was actually emotional and physical abuse.

As it's getting closer to Christmas, I'm finding I'm thinking more about my mother and feeling sad. My father can get in the bin because he's the narc. but I miss being able to chat with my mother.

She has had issues which I forgave in the past and we moved on...I'm aware she's the enabler so in so many ways she didn't protect me and treated me badly/physically abused me too....but i forgave her and when my father worked we had a good relationship. As soon as my father retired, I could never see her without him and he... well every visit entailed me being argued with over trivial normal conversations, talked over, ridiculed in front of others, spoken to or signed at like i was a piece of shit ....and I put up with it to maintain relationship with my mother ....my daughters and my mother and I had had a really nice thing going for a while and i miss it.

Earlier this year I got my autism diagnosis and my mother dismissed it. She parrot-fashioned my father's views on autism and me, saying it was just me being badly behaved. She betrayed me terribly with those words and more crazy accusations of my diagnosis. Even though she admitted she thought she was autistic herself, she still said nasty things to me.

We haven't spoken or seen each other for 6 months . We exchange cards (not with my father ) ...I wish my father would just die so my mother, my children and I can have a nice relationship again. She is elderly and has been unwell. I believe she has been vulnerable to my father . I'm feeling sad but I just have nothing else to say to her at the moment . I fear she still doesn't want to acknowledge my autism I fear being spoken to the way i was again. I nearly killed myself because of it, Ive never ever felt so bad in all my life, the way she spoke to me that day.

Just wish I didn't feel this way. How do you cope with Christmas and yearning for a relationship that is impossible?

Sorry this is cruddy and long, I'm very grateful this thread exists as I have no idea where i could express these feelings!

We are biologically hard wired to yearn for connection, support, protection from our family - because we needed that to physically survive as babies and children.

So when have to drop that rope - it totally against nature and it is v painful to tolerate. It’s not what we want.

Even if we know they are wrong ‘uns and mentally we have walked away to protect ourselves it doesn’t stop us wishing it were different and better - because we are biologically programmed to seek and expect that.

Its really a grief with no closure - just gradually growing your life around the hole and the pain. Time and distance makes some difference but there are trigger points in the year and life milestones which hurt and bring it all back up to the surface again - but it will subside.

Oh shit!! I accidentally had the conversation with my mother. She recently let me down badly and put her own irrational emotional stuff before my well-being and left me with yet more emotional stuff to manage at one of the hardest times of my life.

That and the death of my father have really brought everything back up and I’m determined to no longer be the emotional support dog for anyone, nor the peacekeeper. If she couldn’t be there for me when I needed her the most then I’m not going to be there for her.

Im early 50’s and I’m only going to offer emotional support to someone if they either do the same for me or if I’m getting paid for it. My whole life I’ve put other peoples needs before my own. I was groomed to do this. I always had to broker peace. That was my role. No more! They are adults. They can sort their own shit out.

So today my mother tried to share a grievance she has about my DH. She said she doesn’t want him round again. I said I didn’t want to get involved. So she said she’d noticed me putting walls up. So I told her. Clearly. That yes I have. I told her that how she behaved had upset me and that, and other things, have made me realise that I need to put myself first. So she can rely on me for any practical help she needs but that she may well notice a difference. I couldn’t help it. I wasn’t angry but I was very calm and cold.

Eek. Shit!! What should I expect? Have I done the wrong thing? She did admit she didn’t handle things well but didn’t apologise. She cried and said it would be best if I didn’t have any contact with her. I told her off and told her not to do that manipulative stuff. What does she think that does to me? I told her I love her and I’m not abandoning her but that my needs now come first. DC next. Everyone else if I have resource left.

She had a very critical mum. As a mother herself, she was unpredictable, would sometimes rage, sometimes smack, comment on me negatively, my dad was an alcoholic and physically abusive to me and to mum. When I showed my mum me in my wedding dress for the first time she screwed her face up and said. ‘Your grandma will hate that’. At my wedding she came up to me to complain about something. Didn’t once compliment me. When we lost a baby she cried on the phone and I had to counsel her. She has slagged off close friends of mine. She cuts people out of her life if they show any kind behaviour she deems difficult or hurtful. She will often throw a tantrum if her emotions are heightened and will use emotional blackmail at the drop of a hat.

Sorry. I just needed to rant. I know it’s not nearly as awful as some of you have experienced or are dealing with. You are all amazing!

no need to post a reply - I just needed to get it out in a safe space!!

@turquoisetat my dad was the weak enabler and has repeatedly thrown me under a bus for my narc mum. I always believed it was just he wanted a quiet life but he is every bit as manipulative as my mum just cleverer. He basked in all the sympathy he got from everyone having put up with his horror of a wife. Both were shit parents but I always felt sorry for my dad, he had me completely fooled. I went NC 9 months ago, last Xmas was the worst ever, I won't miss either this year, I am grateful for the peace. It is uncomfortable and strange but when parents show you your whole life your feelings are not important, at some point you have to accept it. If you mum only wants you when you dad is absent that isn't very nice of her.

turquoisetat

Your mother is her H;s secondary abuser as well as enabler. She has let you down abjectly as well and what she said to you about your ASD diagnosis is unforgiveable. In a straight fight she has and will continue to choose her H over you and any siblings you have. She is weak and is also unlikely to leave him because she is getting what she wants out of their codependent and otherwise dysfunctional relationship. Neither one of your parents here is worth feeling at all sorry for, let alone your forgiveness, and neither has ever accepted any responsibility for their actions.

You need to grieve for the relationship you should have had rather than the one you actually got.

Re Christmas make your own family traditions, its after all but three days in the year. Do not send a Christmas card to her. You do not need your parents approval now as an adult, not that they'd ever give you this anyway. Drop the rope they hold out to you.

@ItsBroughtItAllBackAgain That’s the thing they make you feel you’ve done the wrong thing. All you’ve done is stand up for yourself and as an adult you are entitled to do that. You don’t need to be worried abt what to expect. That childish version of you has gone. I wished I had realised I had this power when I was on the receiving end of abuse from my father for decades. There was nothing he could do to me, no power left that he could muster over me, but I gave him the power in caring what he thought. I always felt I had to explain myself. In all honesty I had to explain nothing other than talk to me civilly or I will leave or I will put the phone down. No long winded “listen to my side” arguments, just speak civilly or I will leave. You have the power and your mother doesn’t. Anyone else talking to you like that would no longer be a friend but somehow parents gets a free pass? No, you decide what’s acceptable, not your mother.

So I was at my counselling session this week and talked about an earlier MMC I had this year and that I was afraid of / have reluctancy becoming a mother as I fear becoming my mother mach 2 and being a terrible parent, and having a child around her and her toxic self and life. Well, I'd been a bit sick on the weekend and felt sick yest so took a test and it's pos. So now I have a fear becoming a real and current fear 🫣

doodleZ1

Thank you xx

ItsBroughtItAllBackAgain

Well done!!!

I'd be mindful now of potential flying monkeys sent in by your mother to do her dirty work for her. These people, often well meaning but easily manipulated relatives or friends, have their own agenda and do not have your best interests at heart. Therefore their opinion should be ignored. I would also be mindful going forward of you hearing about she having tests in hospital for some previously unknown health problem.

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's. Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

Your mother had a choice when it came to you and chose to repeat the same old that was done to her by her own critical mother instead of seeking the necessary help. That's all on her. Its not your fault your mother is like this and nor did you make her that way.

Hi Gt198

re your post detailed below:

"So I was at my counselling session this week and talked about an earlier MMC I had this year and that I was afraid of / have reluctancy becoming a mother as I fear becoming my mother mach 2 and being a terrible parent, and having a child around her and her toxic self and life. Well, I'd been a bit sick on the weekend and felt sick yest so took a test and it's pos. So now I have a fear becoming a real and current fear"

Congratulations to you on your pregnancy .

You are in counselling (something your mother never likely entered into) and have two qualities that your mother lacks; empathy and insight. Therefore your fear of you turning into your mother is really unfounded though understandable. You are an entirely separate person and being from her and as an adult with agency you can and do make your own choices. I would also keep your child well away from your mother going forward as she is a toxic parent. Such people more often than not are toxic as grandparent figures too.

AttilaTheMeerkat Thank you. That made me cry. You are right. I’m not sure who her flying monkeys will be. I’ll be ready with ‘that’s between me and mum’.

Gt1986 I agree with Attila. The fact you are in counselling is different already.

My own experience of being a parent is that I do a MUCH better job than my parents did because I’ve worked on myself and I’m consciously deciding. What I will say is that becoming a parent does press buttons. It can create a vulnerability as well as strength within us.

Although 90% of the time I am very different, there are times my buttons get pushed and I lose my temper and shout. There are times I overcompensate- so in a bid to not be critical I can be a bit OTT gushy. BUT I’ve learned to be forgiving of this. I talk things through in counselling and I always repair - if I lost it too much then I apologise and let DC know it was my stuff and not their fault. I never hit. I don’t have any addictions and DC come first (probably too much!).

So you won’t be a perfect parent. I guarantee it. No one is. But you are setting out consciously to do better and you will.

@Gt1986 huge congratulations - you are light years ahead as PP have said. Have a read of this wonderful book - it’s v simple and natural - we need to trust our instincts and not the crippling self doubt we were left with

https://books.google.co.uk/books/about/The_Book_You_Wish_Your_Parents_Had_Read.html?id=YHxqDwAAQBAJ&printsec=frontcover&source=kp_read_button&hl=en&newbks=1&newbks_redir=0&gboemv=1&redir_esc=y

I've been struggling the last couple of weeks as my partner's mother has died, unexpectedly. Partner (we are both early 50s) is an only child and very close to his mother, so obviously this has been a massive shock to him. We've been together for 14 years, but don't live together as he works 200 miles away. I've been trying to support him as much as I can from a distance ... his priority has been supporting his father.

I'm struggling because I'm find it really hard to get my head around the concept of a parent loving, and being loved, by their child. Both my parents are narcissists, my father left for another woman when I was 21, but he'd barely been in my life for the decade beforehand, and had actually tried to dump myself, my two brothers and my mother on the other side of the world when I was 11. His plan failed at literally at the last minute. My father had never wanted to be a parent in the first place, my mother is Catholic and had children as it was expected of her by her religion. They both made it pretty obvious they found parenthood to be a disappointment. They didn't love each other and precious little love was shown to us.

I've been no contact with my father for 34 years and low contact with my mother for 27. I've not actually seen my mother for nearly 15 years, I live on the other side of the world from her (deliberately).

So on a very selfish level I'm finding it hard to relate when my partner says how much he loves/loved his mother and how much he's going to miss her. I feel ashamed that it's bought up a lot of very uncomfortable feelings for me, including jealously (which obviously I'm not expressing to him in any way). It doesn't help that his father decided he didn't like me very early on (one of the reasons given was that I'm estranged from my parents) and I'd not seen partner's parents for nearly 10 years when his mother died. I don't go where I'm not welcome and I'm far too old to deal with problem in-laws. Partner's mother was a atypical 50s housewife who went along with whatever her husband wanted.

The funeral was this week and my partner will be coming up to see me in the next couple of weeks. Has anyone here been in the same sort of situation? I'm so worried about saying the wrong thing because I really don't understand the whole concept of loving/missing a parent.

I'm not sure if this is the right place to post but I'm struggling with my relationship with my mother. I've been her emotional support cushion most of my life, although since having a child of my own I've realised it doesn't go two ways as I've had very little support from her. This came to a head a few months ago when out of nowhere after several drinks she blew up and accused me of not trusting her with my child and rejecting any suggestions she makes. This is not true but things have changed since she was a parent of a baby, something I thought she understood prior to this blowup. She spends very little time with her grandchild and when she does she is lovely with her. But if we ask her to spend more time she gets defensive and has called me unreasonable for asking for her to visit us more. We see each other about once every month but visits are really driven by me. Anyway this all came to a head and I ended up being really honest and telling her I didn't feel supported by her. Her response was immediately defending herself: "when did I not support you? How was I not there?" She then began criticising other family members for not supporting us to deflect away from herself. When I gave concrete examples of times when I felt unsupported, she brushed it off and she said she couldn't remember it. Very defensive, very touchy. I was really calm during this and she was livid. Truly livid that I dared to be upset with her. (She slammed the bathroom door so hard the handle broke off). The whole exchange made me realise that she actually doesn't care about how I feel. She doesn't respect that I am allowed to have negative feelings about her in any way. She wants me to see her as a doting mother always. I've also realised that she is very negative in front of me about everyone else in our extended family and she seems jealous of me having positive relationships with other relatives. For example, if I arrange to meet them she will say "oh well, IF they decide to bother turning up" etc. I feel that I have emotionally distanced myself now in some ways but I'm still struggling. After that argument I put in boundaries about how I interact with her in terms of not expecting too much, and trying to keep things informal and breezy, but I'm finding it hard. I want her to want to ne more involved in my life, and spend time with her grandchild.

@HettyMeg I'm sorry to hear how horrible and unsupportive your mother has been to you...my mother is exactly the same. I was her 'emotional support cushion' from when I was 9 but I've never received any support back. My mother is a narcissist and everything is about her. I've coped as an adult by being very low contact and living as far away from her as it's possible to get. I also decided at a very early age that I wouldn't have children (and neither of my two brothers have, either).

I can also understanding wanting to have your mother more involved in your life...to 'care' about your life, about you. Sadly, in my experience if it hasn't happened by the time you become an adult, it's just not going to. People like our mothers don't suddenly change, wake up one day and decide to become totally different people. I'm sad to say that I think you are expecting too much...I still do myself, and every time I'm disappointed. Trying to accept this is as good as it will ever get is hard.

Hi everyone. I have only written here once before and still not sure it is the right place for me. I don't think my parents have deliberately treated me in an uncaring way but in reality this is what's happened. My sibling is the golden child.
I am still close with some good friends from my childhood who have extremely happy, close and supportive relationships with their parents and siblings. They accept that my situation is different and they've known me long enough to have seen the way I'm treated and feel sympathy, but they still don't understand my choice to reduce contact.
I feel so lucky to have an amazing partner (his parents aren't in the picture for different reasons) and a large circle of friends but I feel such an ache for family! We are ttc and now that I'm thinking about having a child and see my friends talking about theirs, it makes me angrier. We also want to get married amd we love parties so eloping doesn't really suit us, but the thought of a wedding makes me so sad - none of our parents would give a speech showing the love and care I see at other weddings, I feel like my parents don't even know me because they've had no interest getting to learn anything beyond the image they created for me.
I've always just thought my parents had quirky personalities and are likely neurodiverse, but as I get older it's hard not to just see the behaviour as uncaring, and to separate between the two because I'm sure not every instance was deliberate and all parents get things wrong. To be clear there's nothing abusive, it's the kind of thing where if I told most people about specific incidents they would assume there's an explanation or think it's not that bad, and I genuinely think that in my mum's case at least there's no deliberate cruelty. The most generous interpretation I have is that that treat me and my sibling differently because they see me as more capable and able to get on with things, even though I've been upfront about things like financial difficulties and mental health. But when I view it all together its a pattern of not caring about me, the behaviour still affected me and continues to.
Sorry for a bit of a ramble, and I'm trying to avoid anything outing, but can anyone relate?

Hi Toomanyemails

I think once you've had your eyes opened to what has been happening you eventually get to properly see what has been going on.

People from dysfunctional families end up playing roles. Your sibling is the golden child, a role too not without price but he/she is unaware of this. What is/are your roles here; you are most likely to be the scapegoat in your family of origin.

I doubt very much that either one of your parents is neurodiverse and even if they were its not an excuse or justification for their choices when it came to you and for that matter your sibling from childhood. One or even both of them are far more likely to have some untreated, and untreatable, personality disorder. One leads and the other follows willingly; disordered of thinking people always but always need a willing enabler to help them. Do you think your mother is very much under her H's thumb?. That person becomes the enabler and or secondary abuser and they cannot be relied upon either.

Has either parent ever apologised or accepted any responsibility for their actions?. No?.

I would have a read of the Out of the FOG website and see how much of their behaviour relates particularly with reference to narcissistic personality disorder. Its your sole decision to reduce contact with them and you do not need to justify that decision to anyone, even people who have personally known you for years. Such decisions too are often made after a lot of soul searching and thought; its not done on a whim. Most people are fortunate in that they come from an emotionally healthy family where this sort of dysfunction is thankfully unknown so often miss the bigger picture.

Create your own family unit and with you out of the picture hopefully your parents and sibling will turn against each other. Have the wedding day you want with people you want at the ceremony. My parents did not attend my wedding (I went abroad to avoid the family stuff) and I did not miss them at all. I am the coper in my family of origin as well and am far less favoured overall than my younger sibling.

If you do go onto become parents you will need to keep your child well away from your parents too. Toxic parents more often than not become toxic as grandparents too. Do read Toxic Parents by Susan Forward as a starting point.

@Toomanyemails some of us got the short straw where parents are concerned. I too am the capable one who has done well, I moved as far away from them as I could.
My siblings have always had financial support and both live very close to my demanding parents. However over the last 10 years my parents have expected that financial support to be repaid by being at their beck and call.

I read on here that dysfunctional families/parents deliberately breed resentment between siblings due to unfair treatment, certainly true for me.

I have friends who love their parents and have loving extended families, its a bit like watching a science project for me as it is so alien!
I dont think we can change them, the roles are too entrenched, we can only change how we respond. No matter how kind I was or how much I tried to reason with them, I had to walk away in the end.