Partner doesn’t want to marry me/share finances

[MinaJ]

Hello all, I am hoping for some advice please :).

My partner of 1 year wants me to move in with him but only wants me to pay bills for the future onwards. He is building his own house and wants to ensure sole ownership of it which includes paying the mortgage himself. He said to me that “it’s his house but our home”. He wants me to have an opinion on designs etc. but no financial input whatsoever (except bills). He is determined to keep our finances clean cut and said that himself.

He won’t marry me or even negotiate a civil partnership with a prenup as he says prenups are not legal, just highly persuasive. But he wants children (now - even though we aren’t even living together yet!). I’ve said I need time.

I love him, and I know he loves me. He said he is fully committed to me and by wanting to start a family with me is him showing that commitment - but I can’t tell if I’m being naive entering this future with him without any offer of other security. Inevitably I’m going to invest in the house in some ways - and our children, and as a result I’m losing the opportunity to invest in my own assets. Should the worst happen and things go wrong, I would have little rights and could even end up homeless, surely? I don’t even want to think like that but I’m feeling forced to because he is obviously being cautious himself.

He earns a lot more than me and has a lot of assets (land), so I understand he is being protecting his investments. I’m not on a terrible wage (£40,000) so it’s not like I’m financially dependent. What can I do to protect my own self and security in this scenario? Has anyone been in a similar situation? I’d be grateful for any sharing of experiences.

Stay with him but suggest you do it the other way round. You buy a flat or a house, pay mortgage and get him to pay the bills and buy food. See how loud he will laugh while saying " are you insane, I'm not an idiot". If you are really desperate to be with him, say you will live with him for free (sharing food/ holiday/ going out costs) while saving for a deposit on your own place. Though I somehow doubt he will agree to that.

If you like to be out on the street without your kids or any savings sometime in the future, then go ahead. Your BF is a tight fisted cunt who wants you not to have any rights. If you agree to this arrangement you literally will be his slave, especially after having kids. There are quite a few threads on here from women in the same situation but a few years down the line.

So true.

Having children for many women, is the very worst thing to happen to them financially, career, housing, and pension wise.

Largely down to the fact that some women are so poor at guarding themselves and simply spectacularly naive in never giving any thought whatsoever to their own protection.

Men on MN are often focused ONLY on their own protection.

This would be a great topic to be taught in schools because it certainly doesn't appear to be being taught at home.

Complete insult to your intelligence for the reasons 12 pages of posts explain.

Not even worth moving in. Your biological clock is ticking but do not allow this to let ³yourself to agree to any of this proposal. It is ENTIRELY to his benefit to the DETRIMENT of yours.

To echo the first post
RUN

I think you realise that what he is suggesting is not what what a loving partner would suggest. And thats really hard to take. And a decision to stand your ground (which may result in him walking) or you walking away, at this point when things seem pretty good, is a very difficult thing to do.
That being said, look at what he is proposing:
Will not marry you - You will have no rights to anything of his should you seperate (or he die) even if you've been together decades.
Builds his own house which he has stated already is not yours, but his - So you KNOW it is not your home, but his house.
Already has assets himself - Which he is protecting by not marrying you.
Wants you to contribute to the bills but not the mortgage. - Because if you contributed to the mortgage you may have a claim of sorts, should you seperate. But he benefits by sharing the bills.
Will likely expect you to also contribute at least half to the houses upkeep including daily chores etc. - So he benefits hugely from that.
Wants children with you and expects them to have his name. - So he looks to have the perfect family unit in his name.
You change yours by deed poll. - So to the outside world you appear to be his wife.

What exactly is his reason for not getting married? Is it purely financial? To protect himself should you seperate? But he expects you to grow and raise his children with possibly an affect on your own career, let alone your body.

He knows exactly what he is doing, doesn't he?
None of the above speaks of love and commitment to you.

And he has told you by having dc together, it is that which shows his commitment? And his contribution to that would be what? Providing his sperm. you're the one committing to 9 months of pregnancy and then childbirth. While, most likely, his life changes not one jot during this time.

All it shows is he wants a woman to have his dc, share his bills and help around his house. At no commitment from him, except perhaps coming home at the end of his working day to you all.

He would literally have it made, wouldn't he? With absolutely zero risk to himself.
He wants you, the woman he says he loves, to take on ALL the risk.

If you want a shared experience: as I said before, there were threads on here form women in the situation where they are living with someone they are not married to, with kids, no income, surviving on whatever partner is feeling like giving to them. Partner with no respect or care for them, living his life to the full while she is nothing more than free nanny. Unloved, mistreated and unable to leave because they have nothing to their name. Horrible, awful situations. Don't put yourself in this position. Your BF is a really, really nasty person.

One protection might be on your £40k a year wage borrow £120k and buy a small house outside the SE eg a little cottage so that if your relationship with him breaks down you have that bolt hole. Also keep up full time work and aim to out earn him - I earned 10x my husband and plenty of women earn more than men these days.

I can share experience. After 1 year DP told me he didn't want to have DC or get married. I was a bit put out, but not really fussed about either of those things (had DC from previous relationship & own house) and was 'in love' at the time, so went along with it.
20 years later, still together, still living apart, and glad we didn't move in together. We have had our ups and downs like most (married) couples.
We had a DC together and he did/does a standard amount of childcare, typical situation where the woman does more than the man.
I do think people often over idealise marriage and cohabitation, look at all the threads on here, its often shit!
In your particular situation, his suggestion doesn't sound ideal. If you want to stay with him, keep your house and don't have DC with him until you know him a lot better, several years down the line.

Absolutely - get rid of him.

This would make me uneasy OP. However if you lived with him for many years and had children I am not sure legally where you would be, he would have to pay maintenance and not sure if a court would throw you and kids out of your home? Not a good thought to be starting from at the beginning of the relationship.Has he thought who will inherit from him ? Does he have a will? It’s early days in the relationship.

He is using you. Please see the situation for what it is.

For a man to even put such a proposition to you, you must be a complete and utter doormat kidding herself that love conquers all. You're not as important to him as you seem to think you are. His future wife - (which wont be you by the way as you'll simply be the placeholder/housekeeper/sexual comfort), the woman who knows her worth and isnt afraid to have expectations- is the one who he'll deem wife material.

Stop lying to yourself. Get into therapy. Practice self-care and personal development. Don't be a victim.

OP, what makes you think he loves you?

This is a joke, no?
He wants to pretend you’re married but not marry you?
what an insult!
He is an utterly selfish pig who wants everything on his terms.
He is treating you like an idiot.

This is great post.
I am kind of on the other side of this post; me being the one with the home and assets and I've said to myself I am never risking sharing it legally with anyone.

See this is devils advocate - if you share assets and split he is loosing a lot and you are gaining a lot. He could potentially loose the whole house.

If you do not split and have children they/ you will inherit when he dies.

If you don't share assets and split you are absolutely on your @ss.

The only solution is take the risk or tell him this and ask him if you can pay less towards the bills to put into savings. If you stay together can go to the kids or retirement if you do split you have a pot.

If he doesn't allow this I would say it's more greed over self preservation and probably not the person for you

Hos attitude is awful. But there is a chance maybe hes being naive rather than deliberately manipulative.

Sit him down and explain to him full what he is actually asking of you:

1. To forego the security of home ownership for yourself in order to invest in his home.

1. To have an informal living arrangement which gives you less security than renting (landlords have to gie you notice before they make you leave, whereas you could literally be made homeless if he meets someone else.

And if you have children:

1. Your loss of earnings and pension during maternity leave

1. Any further loss of earnings and pesnsion if you reduce your working hours to care for your children. The cost of childcare if you don't.

1. The impact of a child on your career, if you end up pausing career progression or miss out on promotions due to children (e.g. you would to leave work on time to collect from school or childcare, so that prevents you from taking on a new role)

1. How would parenting look with separate finances? Who pays for clothes, childrens activities, birthdays etc? If you were to split those costs 50:50, then that means you cant afford to buy yourself new clothes/go out for coffee with a friend, but he can still afford taxis everywhere and skiing holidays with his mates, how would you/he feel about that situation?

He had almost certainly not considered any of these sorts of things. Spell all this out to him. Either he will realise he's being an arsehole and rethink his position, or he will realise he's being an arsehole and not care, or he won't realise he's being an arsehole at all. If its the first one, stick around. If its the other two, don't.

Thank you for your advice. We have sat down and talked about it more. He said he is willing for me to buy into the home/ contribute to the mortgage. But how much ownership is a secure percentage for me? I really need to look into this to understand how it works but would appreciate it if anyone can offer advice based on experience. He said it may come to a 50/50 ownership eventually once kids are involved. The presence of children seems to be a big deal in terms of him deepening this willingness to share/commit fully. I believe a Deed of Trust also needs to be in place if I have some ownership, as a cohabitant?

@DeeCeeCherry I have contacted a therapist to explore my mindset and to try and make more sense of this situation/my thought patterns.

Thanks all for continuing this thread - hopefully it may help others in need too. Hope you’ve all had a nice Christmas.

Thank you @bananalover98 for sharing your thoughts for the other side. I completely get his point of view, but I can’t help feeling he doesn’t trust me, or sees us too practically. Which then sends me down the spiral of not feeling loved enough/a convenience/a baby maker. Do you have any advice/further thoughts to help me not feel this way in this situation? Thank you.

When he proposes.all these complicated and hazy scenarios of you buying a stake in the house which he might permit you to increase over time...

Can you just ask him why other men are willing and keen to propose marriage to the women they love and want to share their lives with?

Ask him - Why is it not good enough for you? Ask him to spell it out, to your face.

The only thing a therapist can or should help you with here is your self-esteem. Please don't go there hoping to be brainwashed into accepting this situation. And my personal experience of therapy, when using it to help with a specific interpersonal situation, is that it can be quite unmooring - no therapist will say "leave him", "stay with him", etc (because it's not what they are there for), even when it's obvious what any friend would tell you. So it can, ironically, feel a little bit like being gaslit, even though that's not the intention, because you're being challenged to articulate your own needs and thoughts. And when you already have them and they seem obvious, it can feel a bit weird when the therapist doesn't already magically know them. Not sure if that makes any sense, but hopefully it will be helpful for you.

I ultimately earned about 10x my teacher husband (he got an awful lot on the divorce - more than half). A lot of women are now out earning husbands even after children come (I always worked full time and didn't really take maternity leaves). So I see this from both sides.

If he really wants to protect his finances the best thing is not to move in together. If you do move in and have a child then even with a pre nup and nothing in joint names I think there would be Children Act rights to make claims.

However most higher earners do take a risk even if they are the 50% of the Uk who have children outside marriage (I think it is better if couples marry even if it is just a short church service with no reception but people have different views on that).

Good luck.

He would have a point if you were both older and had your own children and assets to protect. However taking this attitude as a young couple at the start of building a family together is absolutely dreadful. I would run a mile. He is starting from a position of distrust of you and an assumption you are out to screw him over. Hurtful and insulting. Dreadful.

I’d tell him to fuck off so he can end up a lonely old bachelor counting his coins while you find a proper man to build a life with.

You think you are in a relationship with a loving partner, but he is in a relationship with a balance sheet.

Why are you still discussing this with him? Why are you still discussing you putting your future life in his hands with all his maybes and your guessing of what he might/might not seem to find important? You talk about whether he trusts/loves you - can you not see that this is completely the wrong question?

Are you already on the spiral of proving to him how trustworthy and non-grabby you are? Are you even now reassuring HIM when it is YOUR future that is at risk? How did your head get to be in this place at all?

Marriage is a legal agreement between two people that was specifically and historically designed to protect the children and their mother financially because the financial risk is almost always borne by that mother. He claims children are important, so why does he feel the need to reinvent the wheel if it isn't in order to get one over on you?

Have you got anyone in real life you can discuss this with? I think you should tell all your family and all your friends. You need to breath in fresh air away from his bizarre ecosystem.

I would say the big difference here is that this man wants the OP to have his children (so placing herself in a physically and financially vulnerable position) but is reticent to safeguard her future.

It's all well and good not getting married/keeping finances separate if you're not going to have children, but once children enter the mix then that is not a viable situation. He can't have his cake and eat it too.

Exactly. Some situations it’s a reasonable position to take but not here. He wants all the upsides of marriage with zero risk or cost to himself - you get to take ALL the risks, financially, emotionally, physically. Society has developed a system over the years to protect women and children in this scenario - but he wants you to forgo that. No way pal.

OP, you feeling like this is a perfectly rational response to the situation. Do not discount your feelings. It's like he is planning on "rewarding" you over time with equity. So if you're a good little girl you'll get an additional percentage point? Once you're pregnant he'll have you over a barrel, and if he's like this now, he strikes me as the sort who would throw you out on your ear without a second thought.

And on another point, what if this house isn't your dream house? Why does he get to dictate how and where you live as a couple anyway? Why is everything on his terms?

Has he given you a good reason why he won’t get married to you? That should be your starting point before any of the other stuff about home ownership or having children.

He sounds cold, calculating and manipulative. You deserve so much better than this.