Grandchildren and contact

[Thistlelass]

Am I being unreasonable here? I have only just dropped out of caring for 2 grandkids due to my health. I also would rather have more quality time with them with less pressure on self managing their behaviour etc. So, given that they only live 10 miles away, is it unreasonable to hope and expect their parents to bring them down from time to time to visit me in my own home? I would of course take my turn at visiting the family and perhaps take the kids out from time to time. Both parents work full time. I find the focus is all on the 4 of them when, in my view, the family is a bit wider. I have been struggling with poor physical.and mental health for a year now and have a CPN and support worker in place.

OP, l think it's very selfish of your son and DIL not to have brought your grandchildren to visit you, especially as you are suffering from ill health. They were happy to have you look after them for 6 and a half years but can't be bothered when you need some family interaction and consideration.
I also can't believe some of the judgemental comments you have received from posters who don't seem to value family contact and presumably don't bother to visit their own parents as they are just too busy. What a miserable attitude !
I would feel hurt in your situation too, l think any grandparent who had been as closely involved with their grandchildren as you were would feel the same. I would suggest a heart to heart with your son, say how much you miss the children and ask how this can be remedied. It's the least he can do considering how much you helped out.

Just reading all your posts @Thistlelass you make a big thing of involving your parents, when yours were small, and all the hoops you jumped through to make sure your parents got to see your kids. There's also an element of martyrdom in your tone, how you made your kids spend time with your parents because it was the done thing and how you're 'owed' the same.

Has it ever occurred to you that the reason they don't do the same is because they didn't enjoy it when they were little, and perhaps they don't want that for their own kids? And childminding is a different kettle of fish. It's transactional whether you like it or not. You offered a service presumably out of choice, but now you feel you're owed something in return? It's not unreasonable to hope for a good, balanced relationship but something isn't right with the picture you're painting.

It could be that you're possibly a but proprietorial over the grandkids and now that you're not minding them, that relationship needs to change? It could be that your DIL is a selfish mare, but I wonder what the reality actually is?

Whatever it is, there's clearly tension from both sides but you're coming across as quite matriarchal and maybe that's getting in the way of an honest conversation?

Who is looking after the DC during the time you used to? If they are in formal childcare then it will take additional time for them to bring the DC to you.

Your posts seem to want the DC but not to see the parents? Does this mean you want them to drop off the DC (which is a fair bit of running around) or do you also want to see DS and DIL?

Because you do know that making DS & DIL welcome will prob result in more visits right?

@CandyLeBonBon
Nothing excuses using someone for 6.5 years and then failing to extend basic courtesy when they are unable to continue being your free service provider.

Whatever they may have found to be unacceptable or intolerable, they accepted to avail themselves to free child care. Now they cannot be bothered to make an occasional visit. That speaks volumes about their concepts of basic courtesy and gratitude.

@Mari9999 the op had a choice as to whether she wanted to provide free childcare.

I'd very much like to hear from the perspective of all her 4 children, because there's something missing here.

My exH grandparents used to talk like this to anyone who would listen, but they were truly awful people and conveniently withheld a lot of their own horrible behaviour to make themselves appear the aggrieved party so I'm afraid I'm reserving judgment.

I'm sure the op is not as bad but the way she is framing it leaves me wondering what the other side of the story is.

Completely agree.

Sadly there are very many selfish people. They will then be posting the same sorts of threads themselves when they're grandparents and their kids can't be arsed with them anymore, following the behaviour they modelled themselves.

Falling over themselves to make excuses? Or pragmatic enough to realise most personal narrative is inherently biased and that there is a whole side to the situation unheard?

Whilst it may appear supportive to tarnish the Son and DiL, in real life, this approach isn't going to get OP what she wants?

There's so much dismissal here also for what people may find challenging just because others have managed it. There appears to be little to no empathy at all that there may be issues on both sides that haven't been shared.

OP came here to ask if she is being unreasonable and for others input. That's not an excuse. It is trying to give a different view?

If she wasn't posing as a MIL, I suspect people would be far more likely to take her at face value, instead of digging around for, frankly unlikely, things that might exonerate the grandchildren's parents.

DILs don't get this forensic speculation to anything like the same degree.

It's odd, because in threads where people OP about expecting GPs to do childcare, the general response is that it's selfish to expect it. Yet here's someone who did it for 6.5 years being told that she's selfish to expect a relationship outside that caring role.

I would certainly want the other side of the story @saraclara - I just think the way op has worded her posts make me wonder what the whole picture is. I'd say the same if the DIL was posting. Or her son.

I suspect if she didn't solely blame her daughter in law and pretend her Son was "caught in the middle", she may have more posters taking things at face value.

And I say that as someone who has never had any childcare support from Grandparents with a healthy relationship with my MIL.

I can't answer for the other posts. But pointing out her expectations might be unrealistic (regardless of past childcare) and that she might be overlooking other issues is not the same as calling the OP selfish.

@sasaraclara I agree, some MiLs are vilified. However, among the real life people I know, those that really do behave appallingly, cry wolf after. Which I say in response to your comment and am not saying is the case here.

Most of my real world friends actually prefer their MiLs.

Know how you feel, in my situation the kids other grandparents see them all the time and are always at my sons house. I’m getting to the stage where I’m just not going to bother anymore, sad as it is😢

If the op were that bad, they wouldn't have had her look after their children for 6.5 years

What effort have you made? Have you asked if you can go see them? Have you invited them to yours? Even if your own child isn't available?

My MIL didn't bother anymore but not once had she invited me to visit her with the children or suggested she come visit so we could go out together. The reason for this is that she wasn't interested in me and just wanted the children, but that's on her. I wanted a relationship. She'd tell you we weren't interested.

If the op were that bad, they wouldn't have had her look after their children for 6.5 years

We don't know the circumstances of the situation though do we? My exH grandparents used to look after him when he was little, but made a big show of telling everyone how hard done by they were and how their daughter (his mum) should be grateful she had them etc.

They were nasty, small minded bigots who loved to portray themselves as these selfless martyrs who would do anything for family - except everything they did had strings and caveats attached.

My point is, we just don't know the whole picture here, so we? It could be that op is being hard done by, or it could be that there's a whole other side to this story that we're not hearing. Based on OP's writing style and tone, I just don't buy that it's as one-sided as she's making out.

We are getting one carefully curated view here and I would bet my house that her son and daughter in law are not as cold hearted and callous as op is making out.

Help is what comes when you are most in need and have no other recourse. Good people never accept from others that which they would not do in return if and when needed.

The grandmother should not have needed to keep count. The recipient son and daughter in-law should have been doing that and looking for every opportunity to reciprocate.

There's the thing - I have 2 adult DC that we help whenever we can, however we can. I don't keep count of what we do, and I hope they don't either. We don't help them to get something back, we help them because we can. There is no score card, no debt of 'help' being totted up for future reference or payback.

@AndWordsWhen
In a loving family there is no need to keep score because you give to each as needed out of love and recognition of need and a sincere desire to help and please. But that recognition is mutual and not one sided.

Every posting on MN is biased and one sided because the narrative tells only the poster's perspective. So to say that the DIL might have a different perspective goes without saying. That is a comment that should be made about every posting .Every husband, ex, in-laws, children, grandparents, etc would probably tell a different version of the problem presented.

That is what makes the necessity of mutual regard and the ability to look at issues from a perspective beyond your own so critical .

Everything said in this post. If your communications with your DS and DIL have the same tone that your posts here do, I am not surprised they want to reduce the frequency of interaction.

Children do not have an obligation to provide grandchildren and interaction with said grandchildren. Thinking they do is incredibly entitled. Your DS and his wife made a big mistake having you provide childcare, because you're going to use it as a stick to beat them with forever.

I thought I should make comment. I have now stopped caring for those 2 grandchildren because I am not up to it physically and emotionally. I have quite a list of medical conditions ehich make it very hard. I experience emotional dysregulation. I also ran into difficulties with the parents on holiday abroad last year. The same little boy we lost. Fortunately I happened to be the one who located him. I am very much aware their style of parenting is not like mine was. I actually think my son needs to engage his brain more over decision making for his children but as he is so busy it is left to their mum. Anyway another incident happened this summer and this was the one that made me think it best to call a halt to the childminding. People here have assumed I did full time childminding but that was not the case. The thing is emotional dysregulation makes me react more strongly and for longer to everyday life. If I feel overwhelmed then suicidal thoughts commence. I learned this on return from holiday when I did feel overwhelmed. I now have a CPN and support worker working with me for the past year. I had got to a place where I largely stayed at home etc
My grandson and his sister were playing 'dare you' when I was minding them. He said to her I dare you to lick my pee pee. She said nothing. Then he said I dare you to lick the dog's bum. And finally he said I dare you to watch an adult movie. Naturally I told his parents. How could I not? I stated that he seemed to have knowledge of oral sex. I had waited a few days thinking about this and checking out what was the current norm. Well they are not very happy are they?!
I don't want to be placed in these situations as they just worry me sick and make me feel ill. To those who asked I have always tended to ask the family down for a meal etc. On my birthday I took us all out to a nice restaurant. I have taken the children out for the afternoon as best I am able and would want to continue to try to do that. Am I 'entitled' because I would like the parents to make an effort to bring them down to see me? Well I honestly don't know but my perspective of the world is it is good for children to spend time together in the grandparents home. In other people's homes generally.
I am going to try to leave this now.

I totally get the fibromyalgia and over stimulation etc and you are not obliged to look after anyone's children. My mum or mil do not look after my child, never have done and will never do. They have clearly told me. By the sounds of it you made the correct decision to prioritise yourself. If your son/dil don't understand, let's hope they don't get fibromyalgia etc.
But really your son isn't too busy, it's a case of priorities and I think you need to tell him that rather than blame DIL. Bet he still manages to go out or go to football etc.
hopefully one day you will find the balance but I would just keep prioritising yourself rather than get stressed about this. Health is wealth ❤️‍🩹

If they both work full time they probably spend their weekends doing other things.
We visit MIL maybe once every 6 months. My parents probably less than that. We don’t invite them over, neither set of GPs. Our days and weeks are spent busy with other things. A visit every 6 weeks is asking a lot in my opinion

Thank you but just at the moment he genuinely is too busy. He is building the family's long term home. I understand this is a stressful time for them.

Op, I speak as someone who is diagnosed with adhd and EUPD, and a long history of trauma resulting in difficulties managing my emotions, so please understand that I'm coming from a place of knowledge when I ask if your difficulties with emotional regulation have caused tension with your son and his family?

I'm reading between the lines here, but it sounds like there's a lot you're glossing over.

Is this in part why they may be keeping their distance?

Yes I think they probably have caused issues. I have in fact only recently learned about the emotional dysregulation. I don't have EUPD but I certainly have poor mental health. I don't think they understand it all (but my DIL is in SW). The problems have been there for years and I feel isolated within my own family. Someone asked about my other family. I have a son I see every day. He has mild learning disability and autism. I have a daughter about 100 miles away. She is patient, supportive and very understanding. I have a son in London who is supportive. I am estranged from one son for more than 10 years now. I think I have recognised through the years it is for the best for me to live quite quietly but hey we all need some love.

@thistlelass

You've helped me understand an enormous amount about one of my parents, who I now know thanks to you has similar difficulties resulting in impossible expectations and destructive reactions.

Our relationship is beyond repair. BUT you are aware of the issues, take into account for them and have sought help and removed yourself from situations you are unable to manage. Which is more than many who have struggles.

Thank you for coming back and updating and for being so honest. Yes, we all need to feel loved.

I really hope the support you have helps you get to a place where you can move forward with your Son and his family.