Husband has angry outbursts then apologises - then it happens again

[Batima]

I was hoping for some advice here....

When I've tried to challenge my husband on something, he has often had angry outbursts. Often it's been when I've brought up an issue that we disagree on and try to discuss it. He has shouted so loudly at me and has been dismissive and derogatory (e.g. he's called me a nag, shouts me down, says he won't discuss it anymore, tells me I've picked up habits from my mum who he describes as a nag/henpecker (she isn't!)), and he sometimes does mocking impressions of me).

But after he's had outbursts, if he knows I'm upset, he apologises. He tells me he's sorry, often buys flowers, says he loves me more then anything, that he's a work in progress, and that he'd be devastated if he ever lost me. He tells me that he's beating himself up over it. When he's like this, I believe that he really loves me and that he is genuinely sorry, and I feel I have to comfort him because he seems to feel so bad about it.

But after a while, it has happened again. And then he is very apologetic and very loving afterwards again. And I believe he is genuinely sorry.

This keeps happening.

One example is last night. I tried to bring up something he'd done that had bothered me. He shouted so loudly and banged the table so hard that glasses rolled. He said that if he'd known I'd turn out like this - like my mum - he wouldn't have married me. He then started shouting and calling me selfish for using the washing machine three times that day, when he needed it (I didn't know he needed it, and one of the washes had been for OUR sheets!).

I got upset and he said sorry. Today, he has bought flowers, keeps coming in to say sorry, and says he feels really bad about himself. I believe that he's genuinely sorry and that he loves me.

But now I am starting to doubt that it won't happen again. But I find it hard to not be persuaded by all his apologies. I'm wondering whether I'm being too forgiving and hopeful.

I would be grateful for any advice or of any similar experiences.

We don't yet have kids.

you are in an abusive relationship with this man.

You being forgiving and hopeful for change has only worked against you. He had not changed at all and buys you off with so called apology flowers and weaselly words.

If someone else wrote this, what would your advice be?. He will never accept any professional help of any kind and joint counselling is not recommended at all where there is abuse of any type within the relationship.

How can you be helped here into leaving your abuser?. You will ultimately need to leave him if you at all want a future for yourself. Do you not know the only acceptable level of abuse in a relationship is none. And please do not bring a child into this .

Hi @ClementWeatherToday , thanks. You say that banging the table is 'physical violence'.

It is aggressive - but isn't it something that a lot of people would do when angry or fustrated? (I have never done it, and I've never seen my family do it when growing up - but then my upbringing was calm).

Thanks for the support and info, everyone.

This 'cycle of abuse' seems a well-known thing, from reading about it.

Do people think that people like my husband establish the 'cycle' on purpose? Is it pre-meditated? Does he think, 'OK, she's upset with me, I need to act loving now to hook her back in until my next outburst, whenever that is'.

Imagine a young child having to witness that mysogenistic behaviour, think carefully about your future with this man and do not have children with him. And STOP comforting him when he feels bad for his appalling behaviour.
You might find it helpful to keep a diary recording these events and how you feel about them, if you are finding it hard to make a decision.

Some of what you've said sounds like my ex partner, and I would think that the issue was something I could solve and that it was "just men" and eventually it caused me to leave.

Banging on the table is symbolic violence, my ex did similar things sometimes. The thing with it is that if he hits a table now, how long will it be until he hits you? You may think it's ludicrous to suggest it, I thought so as well, but eventually my partner grabbed me after breaking our bedroom door open and on another occasion slammed my foot in the door "by accident". Statistics talk so I would look them up.

Basically from looking at Lundy Bancroft and the Freedom Programme it seems that a lot of these men do things like this because of what they believe. It's not that they deliberately implement the cycle of abuse, it's that they behave according to their beliefs and they then apologise and learn that they can get away with it.

The problem is that it then becomes a cycle and what you are showing him is that ultimately, he can behave like that and nothing will change, you'll accept flowers and apologies, and eventually there will be no flowers and he won't bother apologising and it could turn to physical violence on you rather than just on the table or surrounding objects.

My opinion is that it's quite a serious problem and that you need to enforce boundaries. My ex partner would regularly slag my family off and no amount of me saying "please don't do that again" ever changed things, only leaving did. However for you perhaps the situation would be different if he is genuinely sorry, all you can do is try.

I would make it very clear you won't be in the room with him while he's behaving the way he is and that you find it unacceptable. I would then leave.

I would make it clear that if it happens again you will be reconsidering your marriage and that you simply don't want to live with that for the rest of your life and that nothing gives him the right to use any kind of physical aggression or speak about your family or you badly, end of.

If he can't accept it (which mine couldn't because nothing was ever his fault) then frankly there are two choices, you put up with it and hope it doesn't get worse, or you separate yourself from him and hope that he decides to fix his attitude. Make it clear that flowers aren't going to cut it anymore though because honestly, it isn't an apology if it keeps happening.

@Batima A lot of people will tell you that yes, he does it on purpose.

I disagree. I think there probably are some evil psychopaths who do it on purpose. And some who are sort of conscious of what's happening, but don't think it's relevant or important. And there are also some who genuinely believe whatever it is they are saying or thinking in that moment.

The problem with the ones who aren't evil is that it's how people land up staying in the relationship - knowing someone is doing something cruel on purpose is horrible but gives you a legitimate reason to leave. But it's much harder when they're crying and begging you to stay and genuinely meaning it in that moment.

We often see on threads about abusive partners or lazy partners or whatever, a suggestion that they might be neurodiverse or have mental health issues. And they may well have. but none of that is an excuse for abusive behaviours

He’s wearing you down to nothing OP.
Eventually you will permanently be walking on eggshells where you don’t know what mood he is going to be, what will set him off and when it will happen.
Just read a few threads in relationships about this and you will see it is a very common tactic. He’s nasty and will never change.

This is really true actually, you make excuses - you think if they're not evil and doing this out of malevolence it's ok.

It isn't though, and the outcome ultimately is exactly the same either way. Someone deliberately running a person down with a car and accidentally doing it has the same outcome.

Also a lot of the time it isn't deliberate but it's fuelled by beliefs that are ingrained by society at an unconscious level.

This reminds me of the saying 'before a dog bites he barks'

He is not a good man.

This is classic emotional abuse, he shouts at you so you won't challenge him, he tries to gaslight you into believing things that aren't true and then he works out how to get you to forgive him.

@roses321 yup. And the beliefs are often a deep seated misogyny.

I told this on a thread the other day about ex BIL but I think it's relevant here too. We all spent such a long time trying to understand WHY he would be so vicious and cruel and thinking that there must be something we were missing. Were we, at least partially, to blame? Perhaps we could be nicer. And then one day SIL showed me a stream of invective from him in which he accuses her of all kinds of things and calls her every name under the sun while telling her that she never gave him anything, supported him etc. The last message was received the evening before and then the next morning he'd sent a cheery little text message saying his job interview had gone well and if it worked out he'd be able to pay her back for all she'd done for him.

The cognitive dissonance he had to ignore to send those completely different messages, that close together.... made me realise that trying to understand him or find logical explanations was pointless.

@batima it doesn't matter if he's doing it on purpose. The outcomes are what is important. And the outcomes are not good for you.

But it's only family.

It's only with people where there will be no(he thinks) repercussions

He's awful. And abusive.

You and your family cannot be subjected to this

No idea.

What they don't do is try and control it.

That's the issue.

Don't put up with it

Consider as well how he behaves with other people when they challenge him. This is a very telling one... it honestly blew my mind when someone pointed it out to me.

For example: Someone pissed him off at work and challenged him and he'd be annoyed sure, but he'd go back to them and be very respectful about his disagreement. Certainly wouldn't DREAAMMM of shouting and slamming. But when I did it and nobody else was around?? Oh it was a different story then.

I even remember him putting himself on mute, coming out of his office, laying into me, and then going back to his meeting and talking to people as though he was the most rational person in the world. That alone told me all I ever needed to know.

Well he's doing an utterly shit job of being the best husband, isn't he. He's an absolute brat with a vile temper on him who tantrums like a toddler whenever something isn't going completely his way. His parents are stuck with him but you and your family can be rid of him in no time.

If it wasn't for funerals and lovebombing husbands, most florists would have gone out of business decades ago. No amount of flowers can repair the hurt he repeatedly causes you.

To be honest the next time he does it I'd be tempted to say "look why don't you just set up a fucking bloom and wild subscription, because it would save you the hassle of having to go and get the flowers...."

Regardless of whether it’s done consciously it’s a deeply ingrained pattern of behaviour he is likely to repeat over and over again. While you tolerate his behaviour he has no motivation to change.

This is not a control issue, they know what they are doing. It is a choice.

Why would he change how he acts when all he's got to do is apologise the next day and buy you flowers then all is forgiven?

You believe he's genuinely sorry, if that's the case where is the effort to change his behaviour? What's he doing about his anger issues?

Please don't have children with him, if he gets that angry over something now, having kids will blow his mind!

He shouted so loudly and banged the table so hard that glasses rolled. He said that if he'd known I'd turn out like this - like my mum - he wouldn't have married me. He then started shouting and calling me selfish

Read this again. You wrote it.

There is a way out. I think it would be beneficial for you to take it.

Look after yourself. Because he most definitely will not.

This.
His behaviour serves a purpose for him. Like when a toddler throws a tantrum to get their own way. Over time you will stop trying to discuss issues with him or nag or ask him to do anything.

@Batima I self referred myself to a violence service via my work and the cycle of abuse was the first thing she discussed with me and I could identify with all of the verbal and psychological abuse side. We even went to marriage guidance couselling and he said I used this as a tool to "get at him." Took no responsibility for his bad temper or moods. He actually stonewalled me for 9 months pre him leaving - when I walked into a room he would walk out.

He never once admitted to his tempers or apologised - on the outside everyone thinks he is a decent guy but you don't call your wife a bad parent a bad wife and many other names and think that is ok. He is pulling you in to a life of fear and walking on egg shells - get out now please x

the clue here is how he speaks about your DM, it’s misogyny. He thinks (subconsciously perhaps) that a woman shouldn’t be challenging him on anything, ‘henpecking’ etc.

but it doesn’t matter why or what’s behind it. He hasn’t done anything to address it. It’s abusive and no amount of sorry flowers are going to make it better.

maybe try counselling op, if you need help seeing this for what it is.