Husbands and sex

[Deedeeraaraa]

I (40f) have a far lower sex drive compared to my husband of 15 years (38m)

We would have sex maybe once a month or once every 2 months (even then my husband wanted it closer to weekly or a couple of nights in a row)
But as the kids have got older things have slowed down.

We do still have sex occasionally (last time was in February) but I'd not miss it if we never had sex again. He seems to be heartbroken by this though. As though it means I think less of him.
The truth is I've never found him all that attractive (he knew when we met that I prefer women) but he acts as though this is a big deal.

It's not only that I don't find him attractive, as I said, we do have sex and I do enjoy it when it happens, but I hate the idea of the kids (14f + 12m) hearing us. The walls are so thin in our house and our daughter's room is through the wall from ours'.
And, regardless of that, I go to bed because I'm tired. If I didn't need to sleep I wouldn't have gone to bed.

There are times during the day, when the kids are out, that he'll suggest we go to bed but I'm busy. When the kids are out I like to clean and tidy up properly, or even have half an hour of quiet time.

We have spoken about it and he suggested setting aside a time when we knew we'd be alone but he doesn't understand that's just not how my body works! I can't decide because it is Thursday evening I'm going to be horny.
Sometimes I need to see how my body reacts. If he suggests we go to bed I don't want to, but occasionally if he runs his hand and touches me instead, I sometimes get tingles and realise I do want to.

He's stopped trying all together at home lately. He says touching me when he doesn't know if I'm interested makes him feel like he's abusing me. Especially when I tell him I'm definitely not interested.

I've been away for several weekends this year too and every 5th or 6th trip he'll start to send flirty messages or photos of himself, and it really doesn't do anything for me. I'm polite and make the appropriate 😍 emojis but honestly it's cringy and a bit creepy.
I also know he wants us to sext or me to send photos back but that's really not my idea of fun.

Now he's also started looking for weekend trips away but, again, that's not how my body works. We cant just go away and suddenly I'm going to feel like having sex. Also, neither of us really have time or money to go away like that. Not to mention the cost. Or that if we did go, I'd want to see places and do things and would probably be too tired after that.
He's not booked anything but keeps bringing up how he's never been to city/town/area and how it'd be nice to visit it, "the two of us"

How do I make him realise that sex isn't important?
Or that it doesn't matter if somebody, or even nobody, finds him attractive.
I married him, he's a good husband and father, and he knows how much I love him.

Tl;Dr my husband has a higher sex drive than I do and I want to help him realise that sex isn't important when we really love each other.

Yes, it IS completely different. You're just going around in circles and completely missing the point. Whether that's deliberate or not I don't know.

@JohnnyYenSetHimselfOnFireAgain
It really isn't. No matter what way you want to spin it.

Even marriage therapists/sex therapists etc wouldn't differentiate that much between them at all really because a relationship with such infrequent sex is still considered a dead bedroom.

I agree that she should be honest, and she says she has.

As I've said earlier on this thread I used to always tell women who posted about this situation to be completely honest and that then their partner could decide to stay or not, as I mistakenly assumed that telling your partner you didn't want sex at all would make them actually stop and think and realise ok so if I stay in this relationship then it's going to be sexless and I need to accept that or I can leave and be happy.

But all over the internet I've since seen that people do that, And it's like the conversation never happened, and the partner keeps trying and then the whole cycle of hope etc starts again.

I can see he's getting false hope but people on the OPs side of the dynamic also falsely hope themselves, that either their partner will stop having a libido or that they will miraculously start wanting sex. It's a common theme in dead bedrooms across the board, Both people are a bit (or very) deluded about the issue.

Refer to my previous comment.

Ok @JohnnyYenSetHimselfOnFireAgain 🤓

Well just so @Deedeeraaraa knows, therapists etc would not consider this to be very different at all. No sex at all, or very infrequent sex.....still a dead bedroom.

It's the kind where initiation attempts are preceded with "I know it will be a no" and they do it anyway. I've seen this time and time again when people share their stories.

I see it as a form of self harm, they often obsess over rejection and their low self esteem and see themselves as completely undesirable, they initiate knowing the extremely likely response and it proves their point about how undesirable they are.

And I think it's so harmful to both people in the dynamic when people tell them that it's ok for people to keep trying to get their extremely reluctant partner to have sex, keep trying...maybe he or she will be in the mood, maybe you'll get some on your birthday.....

Because it keeps people stuck in that dynamic, and they're not going to get any more sex anyway.

The best advice for anyone is his situation is "You need to stop trying to initiate because you know they don't want sex". People in his situation need to understand that the relationship is going to remain sexless or basically sexless forever........and it's only when they get to that point that a lot of them will leave.

The ones who keep trying over and over and over for years and decades getting a 100% or 99% rejection rate stay stuck. If it was considered less acceptable to keep trying to get a reluctant partner to have sex (which is as I said can be coercion) then hopefully less people will stay stuck in the situation.

Interesting but not always the case, I've was in a relationship that was 99% of the time sexless. It wasn't low self esteem/self harm that kept it going. It was hope and not to sound to sappy but Love.. head over heels.... Not the worst place in the world to get stuck. To some sex isn't everything and if In ops case it could be communicated that sex is only ever going to be every 6 months then her DH might accept that and stop trying in between. I get what you're saying about coercion but I think only Op knows if that's what is happening.

Interesting but not always the case, I've was in a relationship that was 99% of the time sexless. It wasn't low self esteem/self harm that kept it going. It was hope and not to sound to sappy but Love.. head over heels.... Not the worst place in the world to get stuck. To some sex isn't everything and if In ops case it could be communicated that sex is only ever going to be every 6 months then her DH might accept that and stop trying in between. I get what you're saying about coercion but I think only Op knows if that's what is happening.

@my82my
No definitely not always the case, but it's a very common theme. I should have been clear. There are dead bedrooms which can still be very happy relationships and even if one person misses sex, they still handle it well. But then there are others which are extremely problematic dead bedrooms where it causes a lot of issues!

The line from the OP that stood out for me was He says touching me when he doesn't know if I'm interested makes him feel like he's abusing me.

That's definitely a common theme in the problematic ones that I see....they get to that point, but then keep trying in other ways...even though they keep facing more rejection.

Trouble is she does not want to be honest as DH may go ‘but I want sex’ and either a) go elsewhere or b) leave her. OP does not want either to happen so the original ask was ‘how do I convince my hubby he does not want sex’ without fully accepting that is not how his body works.

@ilovetomatosoup
But it's also clear from the OP that she's had a long time of it being the other way around with him coming up with ideas for "how do I convince my wife she wants sex" without accepting that that's not how her body works.

Exactly.

A therapist would say men need sex to feel loved, and women need to feel loved to have sex. I'd step it up or he may find the situation unacceptable unfortunately

The issue with “how my body works” line combined with the lies about why she doesn’t want sex: “the kids will hear,” “I need to tidy up,” etc. shows she is lying to him.

None of the reasons are actually true. The reality is she has either an exceptionally low libido or is actually gay (and apparently in denial). It is not environmental factors which are getting in the way.

Even her claim of “he knows I would be ok with never having sex again” is actually a lie through omission. Someone who’s partner has a medical issue may say that though still having sexual urges. The reality is she would be fine with never having sex again AND she actively dislikes sex except in exceptionally rare very infrequent circumstances.

A more honest description would be “I don’t ever want to have sex again, but there may by the very rare occasion when I would be ok with it at most every six months, but probably every few years.”

That description set out what she is actually feeling. This character invented by the OP really ought to say “I know you have a libido that is incompatible with that so I am fine with you doing what you need to do to meet that.” At that point there is the chance for an honest discussion of whether they need to split (and how that works, do they cohabit until the kids leave), or does he go elsewhere (and how that would work, like conditions that he doesn’t do so with someone who is in their social circles as she is apparently embarrassed about it, etc. As in this story he has all his time free so has the flexibility to have an arrangement).

If you give bad information you shouldn’t be surprised when other people make decisions based upon it which give you bad outcomes. If your dishonest claims cause you to get bad results try honesty and see what happens.

I think in this circumstance a therapist may suggest the person consider if they are actually gay.

A history of dating women and then getting in a relationship with a man where you basically never feel desire but things are ok very infrequently does suggest that a change of course is needed. Not having a “wow I want them” reaction is not a guarantee do Asexuality. If she were to actually find a fulfilling relationship with a woman she may find there is more desire there.

@Thisistyresome

The issue with “how my body works” line combined with the lies about why she doesn’t want sex: “the kids will hear,” “I need to tidy up,” etc. shows she is lying to him.

That's what happens when someone doesn't want sex and their reason isn't accepted. They give the reason "I have no libido" and it's not accepted and the person keeps trying regularly not accepting "no libido" as a valid reason, or thinking that no libido (or similar) will change in a day or week etc. It's even on here all the time, women with no libido after babies etc...they tell their partner 100 times, it's not accepted, so it becomes easier to just say "I'm tired", "the baby might wake up" etc. Honesty isn't accepted. Honesty doesn't stop the partner from asking...so they come up with other 'reasons'. I wouldn't call it lying when someone has told the truth repeatedly and it's not accepted. It's just a response to a stressful situation.

None of the reasons are actually true. The reality is she has either an exceptionally low libido or is actually gay (and apparently in denial). It is not environmental factors which are getting in the way.

Yeah....he was aware of the truth (exceptionally low libido) or maybe gay...or both. And she had told the truth.
Her new 'reasons' she gives are because he doesn't accept the truth (that she told him).

This character invented by the OP really ought to say “I know you have a libido that is incompatible with that so I am fine with you doing what you need to do to meet that.” At that point there is the chance for an honest discussion of whether they need to split (and how that works, do they cohabit until the kids leave), or does he go elsewhere (and how that would work, like conditions that he doesn’t do so with someone who is in their social circles as she is apparently embarrassed about it, etc. As in this story he has all his time free so has the flexibility to have an arrangement).

She doesn't have to agree to an open marriage. He married into a dead bedroom, and knew what she was like. Open marriages don't tend to fix dead bedrooms anyway.....even when people do get sex outside of their marriage in these situations most realise it's sex from their partner that they want.

And he is just as capable of being the one to initiate a conversation about splitting as the OP is.

If you give bad information you shouldn’t be surprised when other people make decisions based upon it which give you bad outcomes. If your dishonest claims cause you to get bad results try honesty and see what happens.

As I said, she WAS honest from the start. Most with a low libido are, they say "I have a low libido". That's the truth, that's the honesty. That's not accepted and their partner wants "reasons" for the low libido....and that's why people start coming up with "reasons".
OP is acting very much in line with how most people in this situation act, and so is her husband. It's the dynamic of pursuing sex/rejecting sex over and over in an incompatible relationship which causes the behaviour, rather than the individuals or characters involved.

“Yeah....he was aware of the truth (exceptionally low libido) or maybe gay...or both. And she had told the truth.”
You are taking the claim by the OP of “I said this” when other statements show this to not be the case. One claim is made then another disproves this. As with the claim that there was no early period of relatively high sex, when what is far more likely is early higher rates which dropped (perhaps done out of a feeling of obligation and not correctly communicated, but who knows).

The chance of starting with a hard truth and then moving in to comfortable lies is very unlikely. Generally everyone is more likely to tell the more palatable lies earlier and then later the harsher truth comes out. This is significantly more so with women, young women being susceptible to being overly aggregable and then this drops at age progresses, often causing issues of taking years to learn to express specific needs and concerns due to trying to accommodate other people’s feelings.

“She doesn't have to agree to an open marriage.”
Who said she had to? An honest conversation means that then becomes a serious topic of whether he leaves or has an open marriage. Telling someone you recognise that they may need to leave your relationship because you understand they aren’t compatible is not requiring an open marriage. In these conversations accepting the other person may need to leave and tell them you know that is important to avoid being manipulative.

“As I said, she WAS honest from the start.”
You are making that assumption based upon conflicting the characters conflicting accounts of events. The chance a 20 year old woman speaking to an 18 your old guy is more likely to have been honest over uncomfortable topics than a 40 year old woman speaking to her 38 year old husband doesn’t stack up.

“And he is just as capable of being the one to initiate a conversation about splitting as the OP is.”
Indeed, he is. However, nothing in the story indicates that he is being dishonest in any way. So where there is a need for an honest conversation the obligation lies upon the person telling lies to start that process. He is a mug for accepting false hope being dangled in front of him and he bares responsibility for that. However, in a situation like this honesty is needed and only she has the power to deliver that. It needs to come with a recognition that this may be the end and communicating that is an outcome she accepts would be the appropriate way to avoid manipulation in these circumstances.

No marriage is the same what works for some couples doesn't work for others. As long as you are both in agreement with your situation and are both happy then there's no issue. However if someone isn't happy and unwilling to meet in the middle then the marriage won't last. I wish I had a DH that showed affection and attention like yours does.... but I don't.. so I've had to come to terms with this. I wonder how you would feel honestly if he completely stopped giving you any attention whatsoever.... You say that you don't want any sexual advances but when it really comes down to it everyone needs to feel loved and appreciated.

It's a basic human desire to be loved and wanted.

Indeed, he is. However, nothing in the story indicates that he is being dishonest in any way. So where there is a need for an honest conversation the obligation lies upon the person telling lies to start that process. He is a mug for accepting false hope being dangled in front of him and he bares responsibility for that. However, in a situation like this honesty is needed and only she has the power to deliver that. It needs to come with a recognition that this may be the end and communicating that is an outcome she accepts would be the appropriate way to avoid manipulation in these circumstances
Agree with this.
He needs to wake up and realise the carrot dangling of 'I'm not bothered if I ever have sex again, but maybe just maybe at some unspecified point in the future I might fancy it, but I don't want you to think it's going to happen... here's a load of reasons we can't have sex... oh but don't try to resolve the situation! You mustn't do anything to resolve the issues I raise. You wanting sex is more about your low self esteem, so you need to realise that if you really loved me then you'd realise you're the problem and accept I'm right' is manipulative bullshit to keep him in a relationship on OP's terms.

The problem in unhealthy relationships is that one person eventually ends up so ground down and convinced they're the problem that they accept the unhealthy relationship.

It's why it's often very difficult for people to leave manipulative and unhealthy relationships.

@Thisistyresome

The chance of starting with a hard truth and then moving in to comfortable lies is very unlikely.

Not in the case of the many dead bedrooms which started out as dead bedrooms, but you refuse to believe that they happen. Even though they do....and OPs story is echoed all over the internet.

“She doesn't have to agree to an open marriage.”
Who said she had to?
Loads of people on the thread seem to be making out she owes him that.

“As I said, she WAS honest from the start.”
You are making that assumption based upon conflicting the characters conflicting accounts of events.

Yep because the vast majority are already making out she's lying. I don't believe she is, so I'm sticking up for her.

The chance a 20 year old woman speaking to an 18 your old guy is more likely to have been honest over uncomfortable topics than a 40 year old woman speaking to her 38 year old husband doesn’t stack up.

You have access to the internet. Go read about the subject. There are plenty of 40 year olds in this situation right now who got with their partner very young who will openly say that the problems were there right from the start and their partner was never sexual and always said they had a low libido........and many of them end up in this exact cycle.

He is a mug for accepting false hope being dangled in front of him and he bares responsibility for that.

He bares responsibility for as much as the OP does. They both choose to ignore the sexual incompatibility and they both have suffered the consequences. I very much think she needs another conversation with him but those conversations really don't tend to be the "make or break" moment people think they are. Many just carry on as before

I have done. I mean, he's come home to me only wearing a dressing gown a couple of times.
Obviously that happened more before children were likely to arrive home unannounced.

You're right that he did not like this idea.

I don't think sharing a flat with someone is the equivalent of a marriage with little sex. I'll admit that I've never had a flatmate but friends who have certainly don't describe them the way I'd describe my marriage...

@Deedeeraaraa

Have you found this thread useful,
What do you think you'll do going forward?

It's not that I don't want sex at all. I'd be perfectly happy if it did happen.

I'm being honest with him as to why I'm not in the mood.
Being able to hear the kids chatting in the next room, knowing that they'll be able to hear us, is a huge huge turn off.

Being tired after a long day at work is a turn off.
Having a sore back after folding a mountain of laundry is a turn off.

I don't want mushrooms ever again. They are gross.
I don't care if i never have McDonald's again. I enjoy it when I'm in the mood for it, but I'm not going to go there if I'm not hungry for it.

You're going right back to denial mode now and trying to ignore the problem.

Everything has been a turn off and nothing has been a turn on since February.

I'd be perfectly happy if it did happen"

Yet in your OP you want him to realise that it isnt important