Engagements and my horrid jealousy.

[haze46]

Here is my massive tale of woo...

I am 41 my partner is 43, we have been together for 7 years and have a two year old son together. I also have a son from a previous relationship. We were friends before we became a couple and have mutual friends.

Last April we attended a lot a weddings and it started playing on me that he hadn't asked, I mentioned this to him quite a bit he knows exactly how I was feeling and said he didn't want a long engagement and we needed a house first. Also that the constantly mentioning it wasn't nice and seemed desperate. I left it, and for a year no mention of it but living it hope, nothing!

Recently my sister in law just got engaged to her partner of 3 years and I really love both of them but I could not hide my jealousy. I really wanted to be happy for them and had to have a word with myself. I didn't want to discuss her engagement with my partner but I did send them a lovely personalised card and champagne. To be honest I was shocked at just how bitter I felt about it, which is a horrible realisation.

It just made me feel like I'm not enough, what is wrong with me, I've never been asked before and I'm the only female I know my age that hasn't been asked. I have all the reasonability of a wife with none of the recognition. I'm still attractive, try my best to be a good Mum and partner, keep a nice home, work a full time job.

Just as I've managed to pull myself together and push all this back down by Sister has just called me this morning so say that her and her partner have got engaged whilst on holiday. I'm delighted for her, she deserves all the happiness in the world but again I'm tinged with jealousy and self-pity. I had to come home an shed a wee tear and gather myself. I'm sitting her writing this and my partner comes home from work quickly and I told him they'd got engaged, he said "Have they actually and are you crying?" I replied yes they had and could hardly look at him. He the said " Well you know, good things come to those to wait" and it my bitterness my retort was " Clearly not". He just walked out.

I know I'm sounding like a horrible bitter and selfish person and I'm partly disgusted with myself but the other half full of self pity and resentment. I'm 41, I've invested 7 years in my relationship, given him a child, used the majority of my money to buy the house. When is my time, when's it our turn? Why does this make me feel so bad.

I'm starting to feel like if he doesn't ask in the next year or two I don't want to, like it's too late, the moment is gone which is so spiteful.

I want to be busting with excitement for my Sister and Sister in Law, I'm not a young girl I should be able to better than this but I feel a bit lost and sadly jealous.

Thank you, appreciate that. 😍

It's just a piece of paper!

What would it be the difference in practical terms in your daily life? Precisely, zero.

You're right you can't help your feelings, and yours are very natural. You are also feeling a bit guilty that your jealousy is stopping you from fully being happy for your sister in law and sister. Maybe your partner is just waiting for a space when nobody else is announcing their engagement. You don't need to be married to protect you and your children financially, in fact your partner would benefit more from being married.

You need a dispassionate conversation with him, about both proposal and marriage, with some sort of timeline. Do you care about a huge romantic gesture or do you simply want to know that he wants to spend the rest of his life with you? Do you need an expensive ring? It's possible to have these unromantic conversations without it meaning all romance is gone. I think you may not be on quite the same page but still actually want the same end result.

Either. I think if they have any intention of marrying they will propose and then get on with it. No proposal or long engagements are all just ways of keeping their options open. That’s fine if the other person is happy with that- marriage isn’t for everyone. But it’s usually not the case, it’s the woman being left dangling with just enough hope to stay.

I have so many friends who were in long term relationships waiting for marriage, then the relationship ended and within very short window the man has married someone else. The ex was just a holding option until they met the one they really wanted, they were decisive and not hanging about then.

It’s not a nice thing to hear though.

i don't think (and hope) this is this cold and calculated

my own husband has been in a long term relationship before and never married, by his own account he wasn't bothered, he never wanted to get married, never felt right, never was a right time. i dont think it was calculated and a lot of people who knew him were shocked he got married

from the outside perspective it sure looks very typical, but its not like he or other men in similar scenarios don't invest their emotions, time and resources into those relationships

and i too was in an overcooked relationship that, looking back, was pointless - but if i knew then what i know now i wouldn't be a villain in my ex's story

Thank you for such a thoughtful and measured response. I don't want a big gesture or massively expensive ring. But I would like to be asked, I really do hope that we want the same result.

I'm just not bothered about getting married. It's just a piece of paper. I don't need it to show mine and my partners commitment. We are very committed to each other. Been through shit that most couples wouldn't survive it. We love each other very much. And even if we were to break up. There would be no issues.

I have so many friends who were in long term relationships waiting for marriage, then the relationship ended and within very short window the man has married someone else. The ex was just a holding option until they met the one they really wanted, they were decisive and not hanging about then.

I have seen this often too and think it's not necessarily because they didn't want you/that person, it's more because the moment for it to happen passed and they ended up together without it happening for too long, and ran out of steam.

Then in the next realtionship it's: let's not do that again, let's get married excitement!!.

I think too many women feel bad as if they're not loved enough, when sometimes it's not that, but more about you just waited too long and missed the moment.

I think when men feel comfortable they're less likely to feel motivated to get married. They're more likely to get married in the early excited days.

And no I haven't. We've always kept our finances separate. He helps out but never wanted a joint account

You know in the real world. Not MN world. A lot of couples don't get married when they children. It is perfectly normal and acceptable.

DEFINITELY THIS!!

To be honest I always think it’s weird when you have children with someone first and then expect people to be all excited you’re engaged. like you’re already committed and tied for life by having a child together.

My cousin just got engaged after 3 kids and was like “omg we’re engaged - WOW!” Well … and?! You’ve already got kids and been living together for 12 years?!

Having a big wedding after kids also seems odd to me. It’s just a formality at that point.

I get what you mean about the proposal etc but why didn’t you wait for a proposal before having kids?

I don’t think anyone has said having children without being married is not both normal and acceptable .
Women thinking they have certain legal protections from cohabitation when they don’t is the problem.
Only a few days ago a woman had been left in the shit financially and facing homelessness because she wasn’t married to the father of her children. Several posters told her it would be ok as she was a common law wife and one saying that as she had been with her partner over 2 years she had certain rights - completely untrue.
Everyone should decide whether to get married or not based on facts not assumptions

It's not just a piece of paper though is it. Such a banal and useless comment.

The presumption that if a man does not propose or is not dying to marry he is leading you on or waiting for something better is a little backward in fairness. I am with my partner nearly 18 years, not a sniff of a proposal, but I have 100 percent faith in his commitment to me. He definitely has a hang up about marriage, and yes I struggle with that from time to time, but he is going nowhere and is unwavering.
We are on a forum that is thronging with messages from married women, presumably whose husbands proposed marriage at some point, who are now being abused/cheated on/generally treated like shit. Let's move on from this idea that a ring on your finger is always proof of something, and vice versa.

And this illustrates my point perfectly
Its NOT a piece of paper it’s a legal contract

damn, i thought celebrating the event was all about, you know...celebrating the event. why does it matter if people have children or not? if they want a big wedding they should get a big wedding!

i know what you mean but you don’t have any legal protections without it.

And it’s nearly always the woman who’s been left in the shit after their career has hit the skids after having children

He ‘helps out’? Well, good luck if you do ever break up. You’ll probably find he’d stop ‘helping out’ once he met the next one.

People can do what they want but personally to me it just seems like a formality when people have kids, a house and have lived together for 10 plus years

its also women who most often apply for divorce and who struggle to leave because of the legal ties

@OP I haven't read the whole thread but what really struck me reading your posts was how often you apologise for your own emotions, as if they are somehow not valid. You constantly accuse yourself and tell yourself off, like this:
"my horrid jealousy", "self pity and resentment", "disgusted with myself", "shocked at how bitter I felt" and so on.

And then somewhere you say that these are "my issues not his". I disagree - if what your partner is doing or not doing makes you feel like this, then it certainly is his issue as well. Taking a partner's feelings seriously is pretty fundamental to all relationships, and if one person is seriously unhappy, whatever the reason, then obviously this should be a major concern for the other person.

You should not beat yourself up because you feel envy when you see others getting what you want. It's perfectly natural, and anyway it sounded like you are very good at keeping these difficult feelings to yourself - "I've managed to push all this back down" you said.

It's also perfectly natural to want to feel wanted, and if feeling wanted means marriage to you as an individual, then your partner should treat this seriously. Don't dismiss your own feelings and wishes as being 'lesser' or somehow silly, they aren't.

I don't really have a practical answer, but I think you should take a breath (or a few weeks) and start telling yourself 'My emotions are valid, my feelings matter', and remind yourself that you are an equal partner in this relationship, not someone who needs to wait for his approval (try making him wait for yours for a change!) When you've done this, talk to him.

from practical point of view its always just a formality, its sentiment and emotions associated with the event that make it special

I don’t think it’s legal ties that stop women from leaving a relationship, married or not.

Sorry OP, it's quite clear he doesn't want to marry you; if he did, he would have asked by now. There will always be another excuse reason not to get married yet.

Just remember that whatever you do with that knowledge is up to you, and is within your control.