Page 7 | Husband’s violent outburst - is it over?

Dreamingofthathouse · 2023-07-03T00:10:40+00:00

We’ve been married many years, until recently a fairly happy marriage though with time we have encountered many of the usual life challenges (two full time jobs with small children, including one with challenging behaviour, aging parents with health issues, some of our own health issues and of course the current economic situation). These have started to wear us down and we have very little time to properly address issues. As a result tensions have mounted, and I should preface this by saying I am that annoying partner who always brings up issues and wants to discuss how to solve them, even on a Sunday evening when my husband would rather relax (and has made this very clear). In truth I really pushed all his buttons tonight including saying several insulting things. I’m not proud of it and in retrospect I was selfish to not just let him relax ahead of a long and stressful week. But I know my behaviour also stems from not feeling heard. At any rate, he then (for the first time) had a big violent fit, threw some of my things out the window, slammed doors, broke a bunch of plates and punched me in the arm when I tried to stop him. I am sleeping in the living room tonight. I told him not to come close to me and he told me that I am a bully and have been so unpleasant I drove him out of his mind. I’m really sad, I’m not proud of my behaviour, I’m a little shocked (but somehow not that shocked, oddly) but I’m also not seeing a way around what he has done and I’m not sure what to do with our small children who are in the mix. IANBU: I can work on my behaviour and as this was a complete one off triggered by me we can reset and he won’t turn violent again IABU: this is a new side to my husband I have discovered and after this there is no way back. Anyway if I’ve driven an otherwise peaceful man to madness there is no going back from here

ThePM · 04/07/2023 11:38

And I remember perfectly well the kind of vile things that were said about me, the hours and hours of verbal assaults, not being allowed to sleep at night, being constantly threatened, called every name under the sun, my things being broken, being squared up to constantly, having every awful thing that had ever happened to me in my life thrown at me, and so on and so on.

I think this is the crux of the matter, you are reading the OP and cannot see it matching the paragraph above. Other people read what OP has written and can imagine it fitting what you have said.

I also have lived under the disgusting cosh of the paragraph above, and whilst I didn’t get violent I certainly imagined it.

Fundamentally, the OP knows the extent to which her behaviour has to be hidden by her husband and her children from others outside their unit. But either way, I’m not seeing anything worth salvaging.

DrSbaitso · 04/07/2023 11:43

If the two of you can't discuss issues without needless provocation and needling or physical violence, then I don't see how this is going to work, whatever the results of the blame game.

OldBeller · 04/07/2023 15:31

ThePM · 04/07/2023 11:38

And I remember perfectly well the kind of vile things that were said about me, the hours and hours of verbal assaults, not being allowed to sleep at night, being constantly threatened, called every name under the sun, my things being broken, being squared up to constantly, having every awful thing that had ever happened to me in my life thrown at me, and so on and so on.

I think this is the crux of the matter, you are reading the OP and cannot see it matching the paragraph above. Other people read what OP has written and can imagine it fitting what you have said.

I also have lived under the disgusting cosh of the paragraph above, and whilst I didn’t get violent I certainly imagined it.

Fundamentally, the OP knows the extent to which her behaviour has to be hidden by her husband and her children from others outside their unit. But either way, I’m not seeing anything worth salvaging.

Yes, of course I am. It took an extreme amount of physical and verbal abuse and even then, if I'd been a grown man, I wouldn't have punched my wife.

If you're trying to suggest she deserved to be punched, I can't give that logic any credence.

sonearly · 04/07/2023 16:38

I mean from what you say, you were an abuser.

Now he is one, too.

Congratulations, I guess.

ThePM · 04/07/2023 19:10

OldBeller · 04/07/2023 15:31

Yes, of course I am. It took an extreme amount of physical and verbal abuse and even then, if I'd been a grown man, I wouldn't have punched my wife.

If you're trying to suggest she deserved to be punched, I can't give that logic any credence.

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I don’t think OP or anyone deserves to be punched.

but nor do I think that anyone is entitled to make other peoples lives fearful and joyless. To quote a regular “The only acceptable amount of abuse is none”.

It seems you are minimising or even erasing her role in this. She is half the relationship, so what is driving the dynamic? Telling someone they are lazy and useless doesn’t motivate them, (well it never motivated me) it just destroys any positive relationship you ever had with them. And of course sets the bar for their children that she will support a spouse going to town on them.

And none of this is news to her- she knows the impact, and can moderate her behaviour. It’s just that around her husband she can’t be arsed.

He should have walked away (years ago before they had kids), and he still should walk away. OP has made it clear she thinks he’s not good enough, if he’s not good enough, he not good enough.
At this stage they have been so awful to one another neither is owed anything. But the kids are entitled to be brought up without their parents warring.

Panteranoir · 04/07/2023 19:16

OldBeller · 03/07/2023 14:43

There's some very worrying responses on this thread. Yes, reactive abuse is a thing. But I think we're dealing with an unreliable narrator here (no offense to you, OP). No one deserves to be assaulted.

What you said is not verbally abusive. I think you've been convinced that voicing your opinions is unacceptable nagging, that you should accept that you need to shut up when he is fed up of a topic, that he should not ever be criticised, and that continuing to try and make your point and getting angry when he doesn't listen is verbal abuse.

It sounds like he's got you very well trained, to the point where you genuinely believe the reason he smashes your belongings and punches you is because you made him do it.

Please please ignore the PPs blaming you for making him do this to you. You've been assaulted, which is a criminal offence.

Given what he's said previously about trying to take custody away from you (another glaringly obvious red flag) I really think you should report this to the police. You may very well live to regret not having that evidence in the future. The family courts aren't run fairly and they simply won't believe you that this has happened without a crime reference number.

Please take care of yourself 🌺🌺

Please listen to the advice OP.

Sometimes it is hard to see the wood for the trees.

OldBeller · 04/07/2023 19:52

ThePM · 04/07/2023 19:10

I don’t think OP or anyone deserves to be punched.

but nor do I think that anyone is entitled to make other peoples lives fearful and joyless. To quote a regular “The only acceptable amount of abuse is none”.

It seems you are minimising or even erasing her role in this. She is half the relationship, so what is driving the dynamic? Telling someone they are lazy and useless doesn’t motivate them, (well it never motivated me) it just destroys any positive relationship you ever had with them. And of course sets the bar for their children that she will support a spouse going to town on them.

And none of this is news to her- she knows the impact, and can moderate her behaviour. It’s just that around her husband she can’t be arsed.

He should have walked away (years ago before they had kids), and he still should walk away. OP has made it clear she thinks he’s not good enough, if he’s not good enough, he not good enough.
At this stage they have been so awful to one another neither is owed anything. But the kids are entitled to be brought up without their parents warring.

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No, I think the OP is blaming herself and taking on way too much responsibility.

Have you never heard of abuse victims blaming themselves? Lots of people are convinced that they 'made them do it' or 'provoked them'. It's why people stay in these awful dynamics. It's a pretty common tactic to make their behavior your responsibility. She's an unreliable narrator, as I said up thread. Apparently she should have known not to attempt a discussion = red flag waving.

And threatening to take away her children if she left him, refusing to discuss an important matter about the children's schooling unless he fancies doing it, and then smashing her stuff and literally assaulting her hardly makes him sound like the poor downtrodden soul.

I'm genuinely baffled that anyone is on here saying yeah sounds like you were asking to be punched.

MNHQ

ImaniMumsnet · 04/07/2023 19:57

Hi @Dreamingofthathouse - We've moved that for you now.

ThePM · 04/07/2023 21:20

OldBeller · 04/07/2023 19:52

No, I think the OP is blaming herself and taking on way too much responsibility.

Have you never heard of abuse victims blaming themselves? Lots of people are convinced that they 'made them do it' or 'provoked them'. It's why people stay in these awful dynamics. It's a pretty common tactic to make their behavior your responsibility. She's an unreliable narrator, as I said up thread. Apparently she should have known not to attempt a discussion = red flag waving.

And threatening to take away her children if she left him, refusing to discuss an important matter about the children's schooling unless he fancies doing it, and then smashing her stuff and literally assaulting her hardly makes him sound like the poor downtrodden soul.

I'm genuinely baffled that anyone is on here saying yeah sounds like you were asking to be punched.

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In terms of the actions you would recommend to OP, do you disagree with me that she should (a) think long and hard about divorce (b) enter therapy and see if it helps her recognise toxic situations and give her strategies to extricate herself from them?

because I think we have arrived at the same conclusion by a different route, and are (ultimately) violently agreeing with each other.

in terms of your last post, again, no one is actually suggesting she was asking for it. You’re making that up.

In terms of who should take what percentage of the blame- I’m not sure it matters but is somewhere between 1/3 and 2/3 for each of them (without any further information, and only in my opinion)

OldBeller · 04/07/2023 22:32

ThePM · 04/07/2023 21:20

In terms of the actions you would recommend to OP, do you disagree with me that she should (a) think long and hard about divorce (b) enter therapy and see if it helps her recognise toxic situations and give her strategies to extricate herself from them?

because I think we have arrived at the same conclusion by a different route, and are (ultimately) violently agreeing with each other.

in terms of your last post, again, no one is actually suggesting she was asking for it. You’re making that up.

In terms of who should take what percentage of the blame- I’m not sure it matters but is somewhere between 1/3 and 2/3 for each of them (without any further information, and only in my opinion)

Show quote history

I would imagine she's going to continue the relationship with the toxic dynamic as it is so it's irrelevant.

People won't leave until they're ready to.

But it's entirely his fault for getting violent. No one made him do it. The opportunity to walk away was always available to him.

ThePM · 04/07/2023 23:08

OldBeller · 04/07/2023 22:32

I would imagine she's going to continue the relationship with the toxic dynamic as it is so it's irrelevant.

People won't leave until they're ready to.

But it's entirely his fault for getting violent. No one made him do it. The opportunity to walk away was always available to him.

Show quote history

Sorry, I completely didn’t see how my comment could/would be misinterpreted.

Of course his actions are 100% his responsibility. I hope that’s obvious from my other comments.

the 1/3 to 2/3 split was for the state of their relationship. Each person responsible for their actions.

Original poster

Dreamingofthathouse · 04/07/2023 23:43

Thank you for all the helpful comments and suggestions.

For those who’ve been discussing who is to blame or which partner behaved worst etc - that’s not really the point of the thread. I know we’re both to blame for the relationship being in a bad place.
The point is: can a marriage that was until recently a happy and healthy one, survive after a challenging period in which tensions reached a violent boiling point?

Some of you have suggested we should have split before having children, but we never argued like this before having children. The initial post mentioned we were happy until child rearing, covid, job stresses, and other “external” challenges started to take their toll.
Some of you have also suggested that I am deliberately choosing to be nasty to my husband since I can turn it off when the children are there… well… no! We are just sensible enough not to start difficult conversations in front of the children.

To conclude, it’s going to be difficult to reset, and maybe we can never go back to where we used to be - but for the sake of our children and also because I love my husband, I am going to try. A therapist could help us become more self aware and develop better ways of coping with our disagreements.

And I’m comfortable admitting it will take time to forgive each other, to rebuild trust - but I think it’s worth it. I absolutely do not hate him although I hate the way we have been behaving towards each other lately.

We’re taking a few days apart now, I’m still not so keen on seeing him yet. When we’re both ready to discuss what’s next, I hope he’ll come to the same conclusion.

So on that note, mumsnet, thank you and please wish me luck!

OP posts:

justasking111 · 04/07/2023 23:54

I wonder why @Dreamingofthathouse is verbally abusive. Did she grow up in a household that wounded with words. Did her husband.

I hyperventilate and become very anxious when people do this. I really can't cope with it.

EthicalNonMahogany · 05/07/2023 00:09

I really don't think OP is abusive. I think she really wants everything to be OK and under control and the only way she can do that is just put up and shut up.

supernova666 · 05/07/2023 00:13

If this was the other way around it would be called reactive abuse. You've admittedly pushed him to human limits after ten years of not laying a finger on you. He's snapped and now he's the abusive one? Just go your separate ways, this is done x

MavisMcMinty · 05/07/2023 00:15

Good luck @Dreamingofthathouse . I hope you manage to resolve this. x

OldBeller · 05/07/2023 00:47

Dreamingofthathouse · 04/07/2023 23:43

Thank you for all the helpful comments and suggestions.

For those who’ve been discussing who is to blame or which partner behaved worst etc - that’s not really the point of the thread. I know we’re both to blame for the relationship being in a bad place.
The point is: can a marriage that was until recently a happy and healthy one, survive after a challenging period in which tensions reached a violent boiling point?

Some of you have suggested we should have split before having children, but we never argued like this before having children. The initial post mentioned we were happy until child rearing, covid, job stresses, and other “external” challenges started to take their toll.
Some of you have also suggested that I am deliberately choosing to be nasty to my husband since I can turn it off when the children are there… well… no! We are just sensible enough not to start difficult conversations in front of the children.

To conclude, it’s going to be difficult to reset, and maybe we can never go back to where we used to be - but for the sake of our children and also because I love my husband, I am going to try. A therapist could help us become more self aware and develop better ways of coping with our disagreements.

And I’m comfortable admitting it will take time to forgive each other, to rebuild trust - but I think it’s worth it. I absolutely do not hate him although I hate the way we have been behaving towards each other lately.

We’re taking a few days apart now, I’m still not so keen on seeing him yet. When we’re both ready to discuss what’s next, I hope he’ll come to the same conclusion.

So on that note, mumsnet, thank you and please wish me luck!

Absolutely the best of luck to you.

I'd also highly recommend you contact women's aid just to discuss this. No one on here is an expert and since it wasn't originally on the Relationships board, I believe you've been getting unnecessarily harsh answers. They're a bit difficult to get hold of, but keep trying.

Original poster

Dreamingofthathouse · 07/07/2023 09:33

I’m back and wondering if I can again tap into the collective wisdom of mumsnet.
After a few days apart (conveniently timed business trip) my husband and I talked briefly last night, at which point it transpired he was not aware of having punched me.
He remembers the plate breaking and the throwing stuff out of windows, but not the punch (he hasn’t denied it either, just says he can’t remember it).
I suggested therapy and have contacted a few to get things going. I also shared some screenshots from this thread, to say I’d found these helpful food for thought (in particular the advice to get support). He has not really engaged a lot.
We’ve been distant but I am trying to politely check in on him because he’s been unwell this week.
I feel like I’m not seeing any real effort after what happened Sunday, to get things on a different track.
I’m a bit lost.
Maybe he just thinks things will carry on as they were? or fails to see the urgency to change things as I do? or is too tired after a week of feeling unwell? Or thinks he is giving me the space I need and have asked for on Sunday? Or maybe I’m just full on and should be patient and not rush things?

normally we would talk things through but now I’m worried to bring it up in case I’m being too pushy or annoying. I know I can keep my words kind after 4 days of introspection but I am feeling very lost.
I guess what I’d like is to see a kind gesture from him, like asking me if I’m ok.

OP posts:

Rosietheravisher · 07/07/2023 09:40

mathanxiety · 03/07/2023 16:39

Agreebwith @OhBling

This was an attempt to silence you by violence, OP.

Is it going to work?

It had worked. Read her update just now.

Rosietheravisher · 07/07/2023 09:40

has worked

OldBeller · 07/07/2023 09:52

Dreamingofthathouse · 07/07/2023 09:33

I’m back and wondering if I can again tap into the collective wisdom of mumsnet.
After a few days apart (conveniently timed business trip) my husband and I talked briefly last night, at which point it transpired he was not aware of having punched me.
He remembers the plate breaking and the throwing stuff out of windows, but not the punch (he hasn’t denied it either, just says he can’t remember it).
I suggested therapy and have contacted a few to get things going. I also shared some screenshots from this thread, to say I’d found these helpful food for thought (in particular the advice to get support). He has not really engaged a lot.
We’ve been distant but I am trying to politely check in on him because he’s been unwell this week.
I feel like I’m not seeing any real effort after what happened Sunday, to get things on a different track.
I’m a bit lost.
Maybe he just thinks things will carry on as they were? or fails to see the urgency to change things as I do? or is too tired after a week of feeling unwell? Or thinks he is giving me the space I need and have asked for on Sunday? Or maybe I’m just full on and should be patient and not rush things?

normally we would talk things through but now I’m worried to bring it up in case I’m being too pushy or annoying. I know I can keep my words kind after 4 days of introspection but I am feeling very lost.
I guess what I’d like is to see a kind gesture from him, like asking me if I’m ok.

That's very concerning. Do you think it's a tactic to get you to stop talking about it? It's very suspicious that he would just completely forget it.

I'm really worried about you, to be honest. This comment "I’m worried to bring it up in case I’m being too pushy or annoying" is really concerning. You shouldn't be scared to bring up topics with your partner. Walking on eggshells and feeling like you don't dare discuss things must be making you feel really lonely.

I think this is part of the issue with abuse. It's insidious. I feel like you're convinced that staying quiet is the only way to manage him. And now he's kicked off massively, you've also got that extra fear. He doesn't even need to do it again because now you know how badly it will escalate, you're not going to want to poke the bear.

If you're tip toeing around and being quiet and soothing, that suits him quite a bit, doesn't it? I should imagine he'll try and drag this out as long as possible.

I really think you should try and call or email Women's Aid and talk through exactly what's happened and how it's making you feel. They're the experts. It can't hurt to get extra support, at the very least.

samqueens · 07/07/2023 10:12

OP - I’m afraid your husband is abusive. He is gaslighting you and minimising. In a few days you’ll wonder if he really punched you at all…

One day you’re going to realise this and look back and see how many, many posts on this thread you ignored.

Please be very, very careful of attending counselling with this man. It is not advised to do joint counselling with an abuser - it can make you more vulnerable than ever and won’t change his attitude or behaviour one bit.

BanditsOnTheHorizon · 07/07/2023 10:33

I'm seeing red flags all over your last post op

He doesn't remember punching you, bullshit, he's gaslighting you so eventually he can say it never happened

He's not engaging with you, but you're tiptoeing around him

You're now unable to bring anything up as you don't want to push him - so he's achieved his goal

Original poster

Dreamingofthathouse · 07/07/2023 10:42

I would obviously not stay with him if things were to continue this way.

I don’t think he’s an abuser (you don’t suddenly become an abuser after 10+ years of happy and supportive marriage). I think he’s just ground down and exhausted by all the stresses we have at the moment. It has been a really challenging time and I feel that has made him that much more unwilling to take on anything extra on top.

it’s like he has reached his quota of issues and is now playing ostrisch.

OP posts:

affairdilemma · 07/07/2023 10:59

Oh OP - what a mess. I also have had a one off situation with DH in response to some bad behaviour on my part (in his case when he discovered me cheating) where he assaulted me (sexually in my case) and then couldn’t remember doing it. I have a thread on it if you search my user name.

we were able to access couples counselling.

the thing I would encourage you to reflect on is whether your dh has really been as mild mannered as you think. I can so relate to the refusing to discuss things - my DH would do the same about critically important issues - too tired / busy during the week and then would get snappy if I tried to talk on the weekend “because I don’t want to think about it now”. The only way I could ever get him to engage was basically to yell at him. Looking back this behaviour was present pre kids, it just didn’t matter to me/us - our issues were less critical, I had more emotional patience etc. people talking about him being reactively abusive are missing the point that yelling in the face of stonewalling is also a form of reactive abuse.

I would really recommend counselling - lay it all out here. The counsellor will have a view on whether/how to proceed with couples counselling - and either way you should both have individual counselling.

if you can get some space from each other than would also be good. Can you take a month or even a couple of weeks apart? (My DH and I did 2 weeks and he agreed that he’d move out during the week and then he took the kids on a mini break the weekend - so we didn’t need to tell them anything, it was just us being on business trips wc). I’d really recommend it to get your head clear.