Would you get back in touch in this situation ? (friend cut me off)

[BluebellBlueballs]

Long story short - close friend of 25 years, or so I thought, knows i am in to feminism (gender critical) although I have never tried to push any of my beliefs down this throat or be derogatory to trans people, I just don't think you can change sex etc.

Not really interested in people's view on pro trans/ pro GC so let's keep it away from the politics, but friend found out I'd gone to a gender critial womens' event in London (let women speak, organised by Kellie Jay Keen if people are aware of her). All I did was post on facebook that i'd been to the event and had a good time and met Kellie in the pub afterwards. Didn't say anything political, no statements about feminisim/ transgender, nothing at all about the issues. Just that I'd had a lovely day out at this event.

I feel very naive now as the next thing, he sent me a text saying he could no longer be friends with me as Kellie Jay Keen is a hater, and cut me off. I replied to explain that I'm not transphobic, i just believe in women's sex based rights and could we talk . Eventually after blocking me for 24 hours he replied saying he 'wasn't comfortable with the company I keep' and let's leave things as he feels very strongly about this issue and doesn't want a conversation about it. (he never has shown this before, we've discussed transgender issues in the past amicably/peacefully and he never showed disapproval of my view that woman = xx chromosomes etc) .

Anyway he's cut me off without a second glance and it hurts like hell. I'm really shocked that he would end a friendship of 25 years purely on the basis that I attended a women's event and met the organiser. He is acting as though I've joined the hitler youth or something.

Is there any point trying to resurrect this friendship either now or in the future. I feel like if he's not going to accept that I have my views and if he acts like there is something very wrong with me for being involved in gender critical feminism, without even the chance to have a conversation, then the friendship is in a bad place and I don't know how it could recover.

It's also crossed my mind that he was just not bothered about the friendship and was using this as a bit of an excuse to move on, but that doesn't feel like it's the case, the friendship felt solid before this. We have watched each others children grow up, knew each others parents etc. Met at uni at age 20 and been friends for 25 years and now he cuts me off without a backwards glance for one facebook post.

Gutted isn't the word, but do I just cut my losses? What would you do?

No, I wouldn’t actually want to be friends with someone who treats an old friend like that though.

Leave it. And consider that if you put information on social media you can't control how people interpret it.

This is the one thing I have to both thank him for and curse him for. He has silenced me, I've learned to keep my mouth shut now and not express any of my views on this matter unless anonymously or with people known to be accepting of the GC position. This may save me from further ostracisation but it also means I'm silenced, which is very much in line with the gender movement ethos of no debate. I can't work out whether to be grateful he showed me this before i lost any more friends/employers/family or very very angry.

Please don't be silenced. It just contributes to the world a PP mentioned where there is no discussion or debate, no compromise etc.

As I said before I am not GC but have friends and acquaintances who are. See also: Brexit and other polarising current issues. The more we hide what we feel the more we slide into a society where someone who doesn't agree with you is a "vile pig" and our ability to learn and adapt our views just falters.

I'm willing to talk to and discuss with my GC friends however some of the responses on here are making me question what my friends say about me or people like me online and it makes me think if we can't acknowledge that someone has different views to you with any degree of civility then I don't want to associate with them.

Maybe your friend sees this narrative and doesn't want to associate with someone he thinks participates in it?

Well, that's the problem. Before I went to the event he didn't seem to have a problem with my feminist leanings but because I went to a Kellie Jay Keen event he thinks i now AM Kellie Jay Keen, or at least have the same views exactly. I suppose that can happen when people are associated with a movement with a famous/notorious figurehead but whatever happened to accepting people for who they say they are?

And as for being silenced, oh I am very much silenced now - for the sake of my mental health which has taken a complete battering on this, and it wasn't in a great place beforehand, I've had to take the decision to go undercover. It was that or stop being involved in any activism/womens rights activities at all and I wasn't prepared to give up completely, although the thought did cross my mind.

It's a shame because silence begets silence but someone else can put their head above the parapet now.

I'm really sorry that this has affected you that way. It really is unfair. I hope you realise that you don't deserve to have been put in such a shit situation by someone you thought was a good friend.

Thank you for your kind words. I have made some new friends in the women's networks I've joined which is some consolation but it's not the same as a very old friend, and I never realised it was one or the other.

Yup this.

I was very sad to lose a really good friend I had made. He was actually my partner's friend and we became close and had loads of really similar interests. It turns out he had massively fallen down the rabbit hole of MRA/incel rhetoric and had an extremely sexist and regressive view of women. He even told me, a working woman, that women don't want to work!

I did go through a phase of wanting to work things out despite our differences but everybody has lines and boundaries. The truth is as reasonable as your views may be to you, nobody has to concur and if your political views are a line in the sand for him that changes his perspective on you, then that is outside of your control.

All your friend has done is disengage with you so he is still behaving above board, but clearly this crosses a line for him and I would not get back in touch with him, I would respect his wishes.

If a friend of several decades suddenly announced they had views or were associating with someone with views I found hateful, I too would cut them off without explanation or a backward glance. You say you feel shocked that he’d throw away a long friendship but he probably feels just as shocked about what he perceives your views and leanings to be. He probably feels like he didn’t really know you or what you really thought. You’re entitled to think whatever you like in a free society but you can’t expect everyone to support it or overlook it if they find it that objectionable. It’s not really comparable to a vegan and a meat eater.

I think being a meat eater is much worse than saying humans can't change sex, but let's face it if he cut off all his meat eating friends hed probably barely have any friends left.

Anyway I get your point, he sees me as hateful and he's entitled to his perspective even if I see it as a massive misunderstanding.

what he perceives your views and leanings to be.
But that's the point, isn't it. He has cut off relations based on his prejudices; he hasn't given the OP the courtesy of hearing her views.

I too would cut them off without explanation or a backward glance.
And that's how people get into purity spirals. Wait til it's your turn to be the perceived bad guy ...

You could twist that any way though. Because you are supportive of the OP's particular views doesn't change the principal that people can draw their boundaries. If you choose to see it as his prejudices that's fine, but he is also entitled to his view.

My point about the meat eater/ vegan thing is : why doesn't this see the same reaction/ polarity / cutting people off as other issues that do?
Is it because it isn't trendy? No pride for vegans flag/ having to state your veganism/ vegetarianism etc on emails is there. I'm sure there are some militant vegans out there but it's not comparable to transactivism in any way.

I'm just wondering why as I would consider myself more guilty for being a meat eater ( but not enough to stop) than anything I've done in the name of feminism.

Yet one it's OK to have different views and the other it's not??? I'm genuinely wondering whyn

It doesn't matter though does it, it's an individual decision so it doesn't really matter what people generally thing, it's what your friend thinks.

I don't think that you can or indeed should. He is entitled to his different view and entitled to feel strongly about it. You don't need to dilute what you think or say because of this.

Let him go. You really don't need men in your life who think a) you have no right to consort with women who fight to protect hard won women's rights and b) who use cliched patterns of misogyny - punishing you for holding an alternative view by cutting off friendship - to try and get you to conform.

There is now space in your life for a friend who doesn't think you should submit to their world view.

So faced with the OP who has met KJK, when he has not, he doesn't take the opportunity to match reality with what he has heard or read. He has judged on hearsay when he has years of knowing his friend. And he has never given her reason to assume he would. Odd.
I'm sorry this has happened.

My god, I can't tell if this threads is full of MRAs or handmaidens. It's bloody depressing whichever it is

I'd be wondering if he has more skin in the game than you knew, e.g. whether he himself, or a relative or one of his kids has declared themselves trans, and he is under pressure or feeling strongly about supporting them. It's unlikely you'd know about this as he might have avoided telling you before, already knowing your views.

Worth saying that I think KJK is quite a divisive figure even among people who are GC, I'm certainly not a fan of some of the far right types she seems to have hung out with, and I wouldn't want to go to her rally. But cutting you off for doing so really does seem an extreme step and I'd assume that there was more behind this.

In practical terms I'd give it time and then maybe send a message or call in a few months and see if you can try to get the friendship back.

Something has definitely happened to shift his views as he seemed quite open to healthy debate and not particularly one way or the other only a year ago. I remember him asking me how I defined a women and I said chromosomes and he didn't really have an issue with that or say it was wrong.

The very fact that he'd heard of KJK was interesting as although well known in trans and GC circles I don't think the average joe would know who she is? He did mention things being bad for trans rights right now and trans people have suffered enough... so something has definitely swung him off the fence. As you say he probably didn't mention it and it's not a topic of conversation I'd speak about all the time, but finding out I'd been to LWS obviously has sparked a reaction in him.

Usually I would sack someone off for treating me like this but a friend of so many years standing... I'd want to be absolutely sure that there was no way back so I'll give it some time and see how I feel.

He might be coming under a lot of pressure from tra friends or family. Trying to give him the benefit of the doubt here. It's rough out there.

Either way you just have roll with the punch. And don't let him back in unless you are very sure he can't hurt you . Sad but true

Usually I would sack someone off for treating me like this but a friend of so many years standing... I'd want to be absolutely sure that there was no way back so I'll give it some time and see how I feel.
You said that you know his family (three generations of). Isn't there anyone that you can ask about this, in a "I'm concerned about this uncharacteristic behaviour" way?

Lol, you are allowed to form informed opinions that differ from someone else's. I do not agree with current climate of anti trans sentiment but I don't go around calling everyone who disagrees with me pathetic bigoted TERFs.

There are human beings under every opinion. That being said everyone is entitled to their views and their boundaries. If you don't like the fact that some people do not use take kindly to the actions and opinions of others, you need to grow up a bit.

FWIW it is also not fair at all to claim that somebody finding your opinions unsavoury and separating themselves from you is "silencing". It seems to come up a lot but at the end of the day, you should have courage in your convictions and move through life accordingly.

I'm very open with people I meet that I am a feminist, I have never once considered changing my views or expression based on whether or not people like me. If you are getting upset that people you otherwise respect feel strongly enough about your views to actively distance from you, you could perhaps consider getting some perspective on your views, or not if you can stand by them.

Either way the answer is not to either claim victimhood nor try to control other peoples' reactions. You do you.

This ^ 100%

I'm sorry that you're so upset at losing a long term friend. But, his beliefs are the opposite end of the spectrum to yours and if you look at it objectively, do you really want a friend who's a misogynist?