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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Family court system - what a mess

142 replies

TitaniumTess · 20/06/2023 23:03

Feeling sad....been to family court today....and honestly..how much evidence of abuse do they ignore......

Big carpet....all swept under it....out of control....

They've rewarded the abuser with more access..I don't get it.

OP posts:
researchers3 · 03/01/2025 23:46

This sounds so completely awful. I'm so sorry for everyone's experiences.

ScrollingLeaves · 04/01/2025 00:15

@Hellodarknessmyfriend
That is terrible and also heartbreaking.

Unicornsanddiscoballs91 · 04/01/2025 06:41

ScrollingLeaves · 03/01/2025 23:35

@Hellodarknessmyfriend I am very sorry, how dreadful 💐

You were agreeing with @Unicornsanddiscoballs91 saying

Unfortunately, I and many other woman/and men alike, are victims of genuine parental alienation. It's not a completely made up thing;

and you had agreed:
Just because something happens rarely does not mean it does not exist

Do you mean that in your more unusual case case your narcissistic ex-husband alienated your DC against you?

Your children were so young and needed you though, that is so wrong.

Yes and me too 😭

ScrollingLeaves · 04/01/2025 12:06

@Unicornsanddiscoballs91 · Today 06:41
Yes and me too

I am so sorry.

It is awful that it can be allowed to happen.

Monoplane · 04/01/2025 15:26

Hellodarknessmyfriend · 03/01/2025 20:56

@Unicornsanddiscoballs91 Absolutely this. Just because something happens rarely does not mean it does not exist.
I lost my boys from the ages of 3 and 6 due to a highly narcissistic ex-husband. They are 14 and 17 now so those childhood years have gone. I was never their mother, despite doing nothing wrong.
I stand with you 💐

I've experienced it too.

labamba007 · 04/01/2025 15:31

Sorry to ask what might be a stupid question! But why on earth do family courts award part custody to abusers, particularly when there is strong evidence? It makes zero sense! What is the rationale behind it? I can't fathom it at all.

Incredibly sorry OP sounds like an horrendous thing to be going through.

Monoplane · 04/01/2025 15:50

labamba007 · 04/01/2025 15:31

Sorry to ask what might be a stupid question! But why on earth do family courts award part custody to abusers, particularly when there is strong evidence? It makes zero sense! What is the rationale behind it? I can't fathom it at all.

Incredibly sorry OP sounds like an horrendous thing to be going through.

In my experience, they don't want evidence. It's perfectly possible to perjure yourself in a family court with absolutely no comeback. So if X party says Y about Z party, Y will not be fact checked or investigated.

They make decisions on what they think is probable, not provable. That's everything that is wrong with these courts.

Hellodarknessmyfriend · 04/01/2025 22:23

In my case, there was no physical abuse. So the courts deemed there was no abuse.

ScrollingLeaves · 04/01/2025 23:00

Hellodarknessmyfriend · 04/01/2025 22:23

In my case, there was no physical abuse. So the courts deemed there was no abuse.

The worst kind of abuse in many ways.

BePatient · 05/01/2025 13:38

labamba007 · 04/01/2025 15:31

Sorry to ask what might be a stupid question! But why on earth do family courts award part custody to abusers, particularly when there is strong evidence? It makes zero sense! What is the rationale behind it? I can't fathom it at all.

Incredibly sorry OP sounds like an horrendous thing to be going through.

In my case there was a huge amount of evidence but the court didn't want to look at it. The judge even said merrily that they hadn't read all of the pages within the bundle... like that was something to be proud of.

But I realised, to my dismay, that everyone tells you Family court is nothing like law court, and I thought it just meant that they are more relaxed. I didn't realise it meant they don't want cold, hard facts.. so all it ends up being is a very expensive game of law. They quote each other from previous cases where a lay person has no idea what's going on, and the judge just weighs up what they think, and makes their decision. It is as terrible as that.

I've never been one to think anything of conspiracy theories but I was very much open to the idea that men still rule the world, there is an 'old boys club' mentality in many institutions (including the law) and I wouldn't be at all surprised if Freemasonry plays a part behind the scenes.

In my case the judge admitted my ex had been illegal towards me in his abuse but claimed that it will have no bearing on how he fathers the children. Instead, I was chastised for passing on my fear of him to the children and even told to welcome him into my home so the children relax around him. The fact that he had also abused them, albeit in a different way to the way he abused me, was not looked at so diligently, rather was just passed over briefly as an afterthought and then discounted because he promised that he would never do it again.

You can't make it all up. But I can see how it happens. If no one governs these decisions or is privy to the details of them, then why should they do a good job every single time? It makes it much more hot and miss.

The ironic thing is that my ex tried to alienate the children from me, but they saw right through him and it made them cling even closer to me. So he turned it around to then make out I was alienating them from him, and that was the most frightening journey I've ever had. When I pointed out that CAFCASS had an article on their website about how parental alienation can be mistaken and it is instead children responding naturally to the circumstances they experience (ie, a shit parent), his accusations were still taken seriously and for a while I had to let my abuser into the house on picking up the children. They were dark, dark days.

Hellodarknessmyfriend · 05/01/2025 13:45

@BePatient I'm pleased it worked out cor you in the end. But in my case, the failure of Cafcass to recognise glaringly obvious parental alienation from a coercively controlling and incredibly wealthy ex intent on revenge meant that I lost my children for the vast majority.

BePatient · 05/01/2025 14:05

I am horrified your DC fell for it. Do you get to see anything at all of your DC? What a terrible heartache. You must feel like your limbs are ripped right off.

It must also be awful for them too. Are there any cases where relationships are restored later in life?

Unicornsanddiscoballs91 · 05/01/2025 16:53

Hellodarknessmyfriend · 05/01/2025 13:45

@BePatient I'm pleased it worked out cor you in the end. But in my case, the failure of Cafcass to recognise glaringly obvious parental alienation from a coercively controlling and incredibly wealthy ex intent on revenge meant that I lost my children for the vast majority.

Yep absolutely same here. She suggested PA and then after a phone call with him decided it wasn't PA, walked away from court with 8 hours a week, now get 4.5 every fortnight because everytime I ask for more it's refused.

Unicornsanddiscoballs91 · 05/01/2025 16:54

BePatient · 05/01/2025 14:05

I am horrified your DC fell for it. Do you get to see anything at all of your DC? What a terrible heartache. You must feel like your limbs are ripped right off.

It must also be awful for them too. Are there any cases where relationships are restored later in life?

Because you're talking about traumatised and brain washed children who are basically parentifyed, and literally have to follow what the alienator parent says because to do the opposite would put their safety at risk!

Unicornsanddiscoballs91 · 05/01/2025 16:55

Monoplane · 04/01/2025 15:50

In my experience, they don't want evidence. It's perfectly possible to perjure yourself in a family court with absolutely no comeback. So if X party says Y about Z party, Y will not be fact checked or investigated.

They make decisions on what they think is probable, not provable. That's everything that is wrong with these courts.

Let's not forget the millions of cash they get from this.

Family court is literally just extra milk for the system, preying on vulnerable children and parents.

ScrollingLeaves · 06/01/2025 22:46

BePatient · 05/01/2025 13:38

In my case there was a huge amount of evidence but the court didn't want to look at it. The judge even said merrily that they hadn't read all of the pages within the bundle... like that was something to be proud of.

But I realised, to my dismay, that everyone tells you Family court is nothing like law court, and I thought it just meant that they are more relaxed. I didn't realise it meant they don't want cold, hard facts.. so all it ends up being is a very expensive game of law. They quote each other from previous cases where a lay person has no idea what's going on, and the judge just weighs up what they think, and makes their decision. It is as terrible as that.

I've never been one to think anything of conspiracy theories but I was very much open to the idea that men still rule the world, there is an 'old boys club' mentality in many institutions (including the law) and I wouldn't be at all surprised if Freemasonry plays a part behind the scenes.

In my case the judge admitted my ex had been illegal towards me in his abuse but claimed that it will have no bearing on how he fathers the children. Instead, I was chastised for passing on my fear of him to the children and even told to welcome him into my home so the children relax around him. The fact that he had also abused them, albeit in a different way to the way he abused me, was not looked at so diligently, rather was just passed over briefly as an afterthought and then discounted because he promised that he would never do it again.

You can't make it all up. But I can see how it happens. If no one governs these decisions or is privy to the details of them, then why should they do a good job every single time? It makes it much more hot and miss.

The ironic thing is that my ex tried to alienate the children from me, but they saw right through him and it made them cling even closer to me. So he turned it around to then make out I was alienating them from him, and that was the most frightening journey I've ever had. When I pointed out that CAFCASS had an article on their website about how parental alienation can be mistaken and it is instead children responding naturally to the circumstances they experience (ie, a shit parent), his accusations were still taken seriously and for a while I had to let my abuser into the house on picking up the children. They were dark, dark days.

Edited

I am so sorry. That is an inconceivably awful example what can happen. The judge should be struck off for not reading the bundle and for perpetuating the abuse to you and potentially the children.

Have you contacted that link someone posted earlier asking for people’s experiences?

ScrollingLeaves · 06/01/2025 22:48

Hellodarknessmyfriend · 05/01/2025 13:45

@BePatient I'm pleased it worked out cor you in the end. But in my case, the failure of Cafcass to recognise glaringly obvious parental alienation from a coercively controlling and incredibly wealthy ex intent on revenge meant that I lost my children for the vast majority.

And they were so young and they needed you. 💐

ScrollingLeaves · 06/01/2025 22:53

Unicornsanddiscoballs91 · 05/01/2025 16:53

Yep absolutely same here. She suggested PA and then after a phone call with him decided it wasn't PA, walked away from court with 8 hours a week, now get 4.5 every fortnight because everytime I ask for more it's refused.

Could you go back to court to get the full 8 at least?
This is all dreadful.

BePatient · 06/01/2025 23:11

@ScrollingLeaves yes I did partake in that study and it was quite cathartic to get it all out!

piscofrisco · 07/01/2025 08:07

We had the same experience @Monoplane. dh's ex wife falsely accused him of all sorts in family court with no evidence at all (because he hadn't done the things she accused him of). He literally had evidence of the contrary-witness statements etc, evidence from the police that she had made an unfounded allegation, and it was still totally ignored.
Their court case was ostensibly to discuss her proposed move of the children an hour away, to a place where they knew no one to move in with her very new boyfriend. She was trying to create a narrative of dh as an abuser to justify this move (and to gloss over her own abusive behaviour and the two affairs she had had, which had left her with no friends in the local area because of who they were with).
By the day of the court case she had taken it apon herself to move already, and had done so two months before. So essentially it was a done deal and the very obvious PA had already started in earnest. We also had evidence of this. All also completely ignored.

They did however throw out her proposal that dh see his children only 4 nights a month (and at his mums house? ), which was great and we were given almost 50/50 but we do 80% of the travel. The cost and time this takes is immense. It's an almost three hour round trip school run in the morning due to distance, traffic and the fact the dss's are at two separate schools, 20 mins apart.
She said she couldn't do the travel for health reasons. The court managed to ignore the fact that she commutes to work 4 days a week to her office which is 10 mins from our house. And also the 5 international holidays and work trip she had made in the preceding 4 months.

None of it makes any sense. Actual Evidence is completely ignored. And outcomes are totally illogical.

And that's before we start on the long waits, the delays and the astronomical cost of it all. I can see why people have to give up on it in the end and lose their children as a result.

Unicornsanddiscoballs91 · 07/01/2025 09:38

ScrollingLeaves · 06/01/2025 22:53

Could you go back to court to get the full 8 at least?
This is all dreadful.

Not without my children becoming sitting targets again 😭

PurpleBugz · 07/01/2025 10:25

I just felt like commenting. My ex new partner could easily have been one of the commenters saying how her oh ex made up all these lies without evidence. (There fucking was but she wasn't at court and only gets his side of the story). She had a right go at me once in a teacher telling off naughty school child way not shouty or abusive just firm and condescending. She absolutely believed/believes he's pure innocent. Anyway her child with him came along and has a suspicious number of injuries, including a broken femur. She's been so vocal about how awesome he is and how he would never hurt his children when talking about my children she's seriously backed herself into a corner now it's her child being hurt in suspicious circumstances. I bet now she's looking back at all the times she took my kids to the park to give him a break because he was short tempered, all the times she was telling my kids to stay quiet not because ale him in the morning while she's doing all the parenting. Maybe she's wondering how he would react if she didn't do all the cooking and cleaning (she's very homemaker whereas a lot of my abuse was because i wanted him to pull his weight so he got violent) I bet she's realising the only reason she never saw abuse was because she was doing the parenting and removing the kids from stressful situations thinking she was just being a good partner. She can't leave him because she knows family court won't protect her child as she can clearly see how well the court protects my children.

She has quite an important job- people would be respectful of her when hearing what she does and would assume she's a well educated sensible woman. But she was taken in believing all his lies because she never witnessed any abuse so I must have been lying. I did the same when I met him, he was charming to me and so deeply hurt by the malicious accusations his ex had made about him I just believed he had lied.

So while I do not dispute some women will lie. I do think some posters on this type of thread saying 'his ex lied' may just not know the truth, or not seen it yet. Especially if you do not have a joint child

ScrollingLeaves · 08/01/2025 11:15

The lying, the charm, the description of themselves as long suffering victims just wanting to see their children, can be convincing. What they are after though is getting themselves at the centre of control.

SweetSakura · 08/01/2025 11:18

PurpleBugz · 07/01/2025 10:25

I just felt like commenting. My ex new partner could easily have been one of the commenters saying how her oh ex made up all these lies without evidence. (There fucking was but she wasn't at court and only gets his side of the story). She had a right go at me once in a teacher telling off naughty school child way not shouty or abusive just firm and condescending. She absolutely believed/believes he's pure innocent. Anyway her child with him came along and has a suspicious number of injuries, including a broken femur. She's been so vocal about how awesome he is and how he would never hurt his children when talking about my children she's seriously backed herself into a corner now it's her child being hurt in suspicious circumstances. I bet now she's looking back at all the times she took my kids to the park to give him a break because he was short tempered, all the times she was telling my kids to stay quiet not because ale him in the morning while she's doing all the parenting. Maybe she's wondering how he would react if she didn't do all the cooking and cleaning (she's very homemaker whereas a lot of my abuse was because i wanted him to pull his weight so he got violent) I bet she's realising the only reason she never saw abuse was because she was doing the parenting and removing the kids from stressful situations thinking she was just being a good partner. She can't leave him because she knows family court won't protect her child as she can clearly see how well the court protects my children.

She has quite an important job- people would be respectful of her when hearing what she does and would assume she's a well educated sensible woman. But she was taken in believing all his lies because she never witnessed any abuse so I must have been lying. I did the same when I met him, he was charming to me and so deeply hurt by the malicious accusations his ex had made about him I just believed he had lied.

So while I do not dispute some women will lie. I do think some posters on this type of thread saying 'his ex lied' may just not know the truth, or not seen it yet. Especially if you do not have a joint child

Yes, agreed

They may be deceiving themselves, they may only realise it much later

Towwanthustice · 08/01/2025 11:27

Summerdays2023 · 24/06/2023 15:44

THIS 100%

I will be first in the queue! Horrible crapcass