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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

DP and boundaries. Am I just crazy?

139 replies

randommangoandpear · 13/06/2023 12:16

DP and I have been together 8 years, 1 DS3 and another on the way. No ring on my finger, various excuses over the years ranging from “my parents never married, I don’t see the importance” to “I want to make it special” and “why would I marry you when you’re constantly having a go at me.”

DP was less than faithful in his previous relationship and was open with me about this on our first few dates, stating it was towards the end of an unhappy relationship that he should have ended.

When I was pregnant with DS, DP developed a habit of going out for a few drinks and happening to stay out until the early hours, often ignoring his phone. The worst occasion I locked him out and sent him to his parents when he tried coming in around 6 AM.

Months down the line, I found a small hand written note fallen from a cupboard, detailing how he had met this wonderful woman and he had “never felt a connection” like this before and never felt more understood. Admittedly there was nothing specifically romantic about this letter but it was enough to spark the fury and pain in me. After a bit of digging, it transpired he had been with said woman (and other friends) on the night he had stayed out and I locked him out. He was apologetic, adamant it was platonic however said that “if I wasn’t so horrible to him then he’d have spoken to me about his feelings and life, instead of that woman. She was there to listen to him and understood him.”

I asked around and was told by everyone that nothing happened between them and it was just platonic, and that this woman was just “one of those harmless women.” Nevertheless, it left a sour taste in my mouth, hurt me deeply and I’ve never fully recovered. To add insult to injury, he explained that he had written said “note” (or love letter as I call it) whilst on a painting trip and ASKED TO WRITE ABOUT SOMETHING MEANINFUL OF LATE. Forget his unborn son, of course!

This was years ago and I set boundaries then re various things that had irked me, like his occasional like of semi naked women on social media.

Fast toward to a couple months ago, I’m pregnant again, randomly scrolling social media and find that DP has liked a lingerie photo of a woman he knows, but doesn’t follow. They have mutual friends and he has met her, so it’s not some random model on the other side of the world, and he KNOWS I’m not ok with this because we’ve discussed it in the past when he has done it. We live in a digital age, and a like of a lingerie photo is more than just a like, if you know the person.

I’m furious, and I tell him he’s not welcome home that night and he should go to his parents. I’m hopeful he’ll show some remorse, but instead he goes out drinking with friends. When I speak to him on the phone and admittedly lay in to him, saying some things I regret, he hangs up the phone and stays out with his phone off until 7 AM, having said he can’t bare coming home to me and my “abusive verbal assault” leaving me pregnant and stressed with our 3 year old.

We talked things over the next day, but he turned it on to me and basically said that he feels like he has no life anymore, no hobbies, can’t go out for a drink with friends because he knows I’ll apparently be upset about it etc. I said I would play my part but still wasn’t happy about what he had done, as it wasn’t the first time and he has repeatedly disrespected my boundaries re other women and things like this. He doesn’t go out drinking often anymore, but when he does I rarely have an issue, I just don’t want him out until the early hours.

I didn’t actually believe he was remorseful but fast forward to last night and he is trying to gaslight the shit out of me, telling me I’m crazy and it’s “not a big deal” and even my best friend told him that it was a “bit much” which I’m also furious about, as I confided in her about this argument, not for her to go discussing it with him and sympathising.

At the end of the day, we share a child and I’m pregnant with another, I don’t think I’m unreasonable for being furious that my DP has yet AGAIN ignored my boundaries. It doesn’t matter what it is, if we have discussed it and he has promised not to do it, then does it, it’s not ok. He of course thinks I am the unreasonable one, and as mentioned has turned this all on to me and wants ME to change. I’m a SAHM for a year now, a joint decision because I hated my job and DP wanted to go back to his business full time. We moved out of the city and I fucking hate it here too, it makes me miserable but he’s had a go at me for saying that because it’s “negative.” My mental health is in tatters renting here, but I’m wrong for not “making the most of it.”

I feel like I am completely alone now, I know pregnancy hormones are raging but my family live abroad, I feel betrayed by DP and now my best friend, and I just want to run away. My family aren’t even that supportive generally and I didn’t have a great upbringing, which doesn’t help my loneliness now.

In his mind I’m just a raging lunatic with potentially undiagnosed BPD. Thanks to ME telling him this, it’s not a weapon he can use, but he has done many shady things that have led us here.

Another example is when he was in London working for the day, then text me around 7pm saying he was finishing a drink at the pub then getting the train. Fast forward to 9pm, he says he’s running for the train. His phone goes off, and I don’t hear anything until 6 AM when he’s knocking at our front door. The train journey is 1 hour. He “missed the last train and slept in a park.” Yeah, pull the other one. I’m expected to believe this, and I let it go.. eventually. Would you have?

Still, when I think about a break up my heart breaks for our son and the new baby. I don’t know what to do. Counselling?

OP posts:
Gatekeeperoffood · 13/06/2023 21:03

OP you're in an abusive relationship and he sounds like a narcissist!

He's definitely cheating and it would be worth getting an STD check as it could affect the baby. I wouldn't believe a word this man tells you, i bet you wouldn't have to dig very far to find the evidence that you know deep down is there.

What's worse than the cheating is the abuse.....

Gaslighting- deflection, lies, false promises then calling you crazy for reacting to those. It's designed to make you feel crazy and incompetent!

Isolation- moving you miles away from anyone you knew and encouraging you to give up work so you are totally dependent on him

Constant criticism- designed to wear you down, lose self esteem and depend on him even more.

Controlling- you only get on when things are going his way/you are complying with his demands, stone walls you (by disappearing all night)

Your "extreme" reactions are reactive abuse. It's designed to make you lose your shit so they can turn it all around on you and say "see how unreasonable you are!"

He doesn't have respect for your boundaries and he doesn't have respect for you. He expects you to comply and the fact that you are even considering doing so (for what you think will be an easier life) is heartbreaking. I tried that for many years, and things only ever got worse (and my children were very much affected despite my efforts to hide it from them).

Don't rely on other people's opinions of him to make you doubt if he's abusive. It's very common for narcissistic people to have Jeckyl and Hyde characters. They work very hard on their social image/status, but the mask is removed at home.

I would start getting things in order to leave. You could contact Womans aid for some advice on the best way to plan leaving an abuser (It's the most dangerous time)

randommangoandpear · 13/06/2023 21:14

@Gatekeeperoffood thanks for the reply. I do feel the need to stress that he is not a narcissist. My ex was a textbook narcissist. Appreciate some things may make it seem that way, for example moving further out, however he also bought me a car at the same time so I could have my freedom.

OP posts:
Gatekeeperoffood · 13/06/2023 22:11

He's still abusive OP, whether you believe he is one or not.

My exH was sociopathic but "allowed" me to drive, I was the breadwinner, watched the DC so I could go out with friends etc.

He was also an abusive wanker and did all the things i listed that your "D"P is doing. It's not always so black and white

Susieb2023 · 14/06/2023 06:42

@Gatekeeperoffood’s post was exactly how I read your initial post @randommangoandpear

He’s a gaslighting, blameshifting, crazy making cheat but you KNOW all of this.

Its been reiterated to you by several posters who recognise the behaviour and you’re making excuses.

Leaving the mother of your small child (who is also pregnant) and switching off your phone, while she is distressed and anxious is a cruel thing to do. Its not only cruel it’s potentially risky as you couldn’t get hold of him if anything happened to the two of you and babe. It shows no respect, love or care for you. It shows me that ALL he cares about is himself. His selfishness and entitlement is DEEP rooted and will not go away. I couldn’t care less that you ‘shouted’ at the poor sausage, he has responsibilities and commitments he chose to walk away from. I have no doubt that this involved cheating.

Now you’ve written in one of your posts you’ll put aside your happiness for the children. This is naive. Your children will grown up witnessing a father who treats the family with contempt when he chooses, orchestrates fights for his benefit and gaslights their mother. This is a toxic environment for them. Not only that but you will develop deep seated trauma bonds and anxiety from worrying about where he is all the time as you will know you’re not safe.

I believe a poster a few pages back suggested counselling for you on your own and after reading your posts I’d say that needs to happen immediately.

You matter, this is not healthy for you for your boy and baby on the way, surely you can see that.

alwayscrashinginthesamecar1 · 14/06/2023 07:02

Well he sounds like a total arsehole, and a million miles from being an amazing father. But you have been very foolish to get pregnant (twice!) to him while unmarried and financially dependant, and you really need to address that first. At the minute he holds all the cards, you and your babies could find yourselves out on your ears as soon as he gets sick of you! So if I were you, that's what I would address first. How employable are you? Because this situation is untenable, unless you want to lead a miserable life, and that wouldn't be fair on your kids. But for goodness sake, sort out some contraception after you have this baby, and try not to get pregnant to this man again.

Pissedoffandcovidy · 14/06/2023 07:07

It’s hard to tell really, how often does he go out? The most suspicious is the night he “slept in the park”. I don’t think you’re bringing out the best in each other, you don’t trust him (with reason), and it sounds like you do frequently verbally abuse him, a consequence of not trusting him but not ideal. I wouldn’t take kindly to being locked out of my house or shouted at while out. As there are children involved would it be worth trying relationship counselling?

TheoTheopolis23 · 14/06/2023 08:02

He sounds dodgy as fuck.

He doesn't sound trustworthy.

Having the second child with him was unwise, but - silver lining - you've got two kids by the same Dad for company for each other etc.

I would get your ducks in a row for getting rid of him.

If you get UC, you can still work some hours and you qualify for childcare costs (85% up to a cap).

I have a feeling this behaviour is just going to go on and on; while he calls you controlling and gas lights you. He'll fuck up for mental health.

Thisisworsethananticpated · 14/06/2023 08:06

im sorry you find yourself in such a precarious situation

id say as urgent and top priority you need a plan

  • and top of the list is getting your earning potential back
as you arnt married the situation is somewhat risky for you now as you have two children and one unborn

i don’t agree that ‘you are as bad as him ‘ as a Pp said
he pulls all nighters, has form for cheating and ogles women online
it’s shit

bit right now you need to play a long game

To both plan and stay emotionally stable over the next few years xx

THisbackwithavengeance · 14/06/2023 08:28

I don't t agree that you are as bad as him either based on what you have posted.

He may have a different tale to tell?

However, his behaviour is appalling.

Sounds like he really doesn't want to be in a relationship with you. And you - rightly- don't trust him an inch. I wouldn't either; he's taking the piss big time and that note to that woman - what a slap in the face!

So put him out of his misery and do yourself a big favour and take steps to end this farce.

And yes he might be a nice person and a good dad but he can be both those things and not in a Relationship with you.

randommangoandpear · 14/06/2023 08:31

@alwayscrashinginthesamecar1 Both of our children were planned.

OP posts:
alwayscrashinginthesamecar1 · 14/06/2023 08:35

randommangoandpear · 14/06/2023 08:31

@alwayscrashinginthesamecar1 Both of our children were planned.

Well then you planned to put yourself in a very precarious position as an unmarried SAHM parent, which was probably not your smartest move. If I were you I'd be looking to re-establish my earning potential asap, or at least look into what you would be entitled to if you split up. Because it seems to be you have got yourself hooked up to a waste of space.

Watchkeys · 14/06/2023 09:06

Children know when there's a monster, even if they can't see it.

Your kids will be learning that a relationship with hidden hate is the norm. You do realise that they'll go out into their adult lives and seek this for themselves, don't you? Because it will feel like home to them?

If you and your partner are making sure that the kids don't see you falling out, then that means that you are in control, and can stop when you need to. So why do you fall out at all? If you're both fully in control, why do you choose to do it ever, even when the kids aren't there?

TheoTheopolis23 · 14/06/2023 09:13

i don’t agree that ‘you are as bad as him ‘ as a Pp said
he pulls all nighters, has form for cheating and ogles women online
it’s shit

Absolutely.

The poster/s who said that - not surdxshatvthd fk is going on with them.

Also - writing stuff about a woman he's met when asked to write about something significant... Instead of eg his partner abd their unborn child (or anything else not related to a woman he's met) says a lot.

TheoTheopolis23 · 14/06/2023 09:14

*not sure wtf is going on with them

TheoTheopolis23 · 14/06/2023 09:17

Sounds like he really doesn't want to be in a relationship with you

I would actually say men like this want the advantages of a steady relationship/partner, but also want some of the advantages of being single; so they always have their main woman (and they're always messing around behind her back/as much as they can get away with, always pushing it (even if not cheating outright).

Hrs had the chance not to have two kids with op, by using condoms or insisting as far as he can that she uses contraception, get he apparently hasn't. They want it both ways - conventional setup and freedom.

Crossornot · 14/06/2023 09:52

I really feel for you OP. Your DP sounds like a charmer type who has everyone pandering to him, but he is a really, really bad partner, and is treating you horribly. You do know this really, deep down. I’m sorry also that your friend sided with him. It sounds to me like you are surrounded by quite shitty people and really need a fresh start.

You won’t ever change your partner, but you can cut through all the noise and create a calmer, happier, saner life for your children. Don’t bother arguing with your partner about any of it - say to him that neither of you are happy, it isn’t working, and you are going to move out. You can decide where to go and what to do. He will have to pay maintenance towards his children and see them very regularly - they can still have two involved parents, and if you split up now they will never remember it being otherwise. It is absolutely the best thing you can do for them.

You aren’t crazy, you aren’t unreasonable, you are in no way as bad as him. He doesn’t want to commit to all the things you have to commit to in a monogamous relationship with children, and instead of being honest with himself about that he is blaming you. You must draw a line and leave. You can do it!

Hairpinleg · 14/06/2023 10:29

It's pretty ridiculous that he sleeps around, or tries to as much as he can, and calls you 'verbally abusive' when you express your issue with this. He's setting you up as the 'crazy girlfriend' with his friends, and now your friends, so they'll cover for him when he 'takes comfort' elsewhere.

randommangoandpear · 14/06/2023 10:51

Thanks for the replies everyone.

I can’t stress enough that I’m no angel, whilst I have never so much as looked at another man in our time together, I did feel very insecure in the beginning of our relationship and wasn’t a huge fan of DS going out partying a lot, however when he did he would never come home when he said he would etc and that is how we ended up in this situation. He used to say that it was abusive for me to suggest a time he be back, so I stopped, and he got better, until I got pregnant.

Once our son was born things generally improved between us and this is why I find recent events so upsetting as well. I thought we were past him turning his phone off and behaving that way, and this was a stark reminder that he is still capable of doing that.

I have a vicious mouth when I’m hurt, hence the potential undiagnosed BPD. I lost my mum when I was a young teenager and seemingly I have abandonment issues. So, when he turns his phone off or ignores his phone in these situations, my texts are less than pleasant. As I explained, I literally said I hated him, he was a bad father and that he would not be able to see our son anymore since I’d be moving abroad to be with my family. Anything basically, to try and get him to respond. He stands his ground and ignores his phone, saying he won’t tolerate the verbal abuse.

So for example, when I kicked him out last time and he went partying, I eventually called and asked him to come home. I was furious still, but I wanted him to come home and I didn’t want him out partying all night. He sounded happy that I wanted him home and said he would say his goodbyes and get the bus (he’d been drinking.)

An hour passed and I’d heard nothing, so I call and he HASN’T EVEN CHECKED THE BUS TIMES. I Ask him which bus he is getting and he says he hasn’t checked because he’s on the phone to me.

Now, this really upset me. After a huge argument and me backing down, it takes him an hour to say his goodbyes and then think about checking bus times? What if he’s missed the last one? No fucks given, basically. If that was me, I’d have been running home to my family because I loved them, not fannying about at the pub for an another hour before considering it.

At this point I really let him hahe it on the phone, I was fuming and hurt, but his excuses of friends he hasn’t seen in years etc wound me up further. This is when I was “verbally” abusive and he said he was actually sat at the bus stop now but wasn’t getting on it because there was no way he was coming home to my verbal assault. So, he hung up and that was the last he spoke to me, ignoring his phone until 7 Am. He said he was happy to come home and I ruined it with my verbal abuse.

OP posts:
Thisisworsethananticpated · 14/06/2023 11:03

He’s a cunt
I think the sooner you emotionally distance yourself and stop 🛑 reacting the more empowered you’ll feel

it’s a damm shame that after losing your mum at such a tender age (I’m so sorry x) you ended up with a man like this .

x

Hairpinleg · 14/06/2023 11:35

He wasn't at the bus stop and he wasn't coming home.

randommangoandpear · 14/06/2023 11:44

@Hairpinleg He was. I didn’t believe him either but he sent a photo.

OP posts:
IfIHadAHeart · 14/06/2023 11:55

I really don’t think it’s ok to speak to him the way you do, demand he comes home and threaten to take his child abroad. You’ve said yourself you deliberately say awful things to provoke a reaction.

You’re saying you believe he hasn’t actually cheated, so let’s take that at face value (although it seems like he may have…). What is actually the issue with him occasionally staying out til the small hours? If he isn’t cheating? You’ve not said that this is a daily/weekly or even monthly occurrence, so what is the problem? Assuming it’s rare, and I pull my weight the rest of the time (and you’re saying he does) I would not take kindly to a partner dictating to me what time I needed to be home. I would probably do as he did - switch my phone off to avoid the drama.

It sounds to me like the relationship is over. You don’t trust him, possibly with good reason, and he no longer respects you because of the way you speak to him. I doubt counselling would fix this and I think you’d be better focusing on trying to part ways amicably.

bonzaitree · 14/06/2023 12:09

you shouldn’t threaten to take his child abroad that’s completely unacceptable. Sounds like your relationship is over.

Bubblyb00b · 14/06/2023 12:14

This is a very sad situation and I feel for you because you have a child and another one on the way. But I really don't understand why you think you can change him and make him behave in any other way - he told you from the very beginning who he is, and have shown you, too on more than one occasion. You don't accept cheating but you picked a cheater to leave with? Its very hard to comprehend.

Having boundaries is great but you have to stand by them - if someone is breaking them all the time you have to walk away. Instead of doing this you rage and scream at him. This is absolutely useless! And, if your instinct is telling you something is off - believe me, it is. I think its 99% obvious he is messing around with other women, and of course he will not admit he does.

I would really think about separating from him. If he is a great dad you both can co-parent, it will be better for you and for your kids in the long run.

Watchkeys · 14/06/2023 13:52

lost my mum when I was a young teenager and seemingly I have abandonment issues

So, avoid people who make you feel abandoned.

This is a prime example of failing to look after yourself. It's like not being scared of dogs, and deciding to work at the kennels, or having issues with alcohol and choosing to spend your time at the pub.

It is your responsibility in life to look after yourself. This is the same as looking after a child. You think about what's best, to give them a happy hour, day, month, year, future. Then you put that in place. You think about the things that make them feel sad, upset, wound up, angry, and you keep them far away from those things. It's very simple. And you are not doing it for yourself. You are willingly and deliberately putting yourself into a situation, over and over again, where you get wound up, boil over, have a tantrum etc, and then shrugging your shoulders and saying you can't work out why things keep going wrong.

It is up to you. Nobody else will save you from this. It is your job, and your job alone, to look after you. Stop hanging around with bullies, and you'll find that life is easier and happier. It will also set a good example to your children.

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