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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Rejection sensitivity dysphoria and ADHD

145 replies

shardinay · 09/06/2023 19:12

My husband was diagnosed with ADHD as a child so I've always known that. It in recent years our relationship has deteriorated massively to the point I'm almost mute in our house (apart from talking and engaging with our wonderful kids). He seems to be able to take offence or find criticism in absolutely everything i say. As a result we don't talk at all anymore. I mean this literally.. i couldn't even ask him to pass the salt as he would take it as an attack on his character that he didn't consider my meal needed salt. He knows nothing about me or my life because if you can’t ask someone to get petrol while they're out (example) without it descending into a huge argument about how he knows the car needs petrol and doesn't need reminders and he's not the type of person to let a car cut out at the side of the road and he was planning on getting petrol etc etc etc (he never gets petrol nor notices the light being on - ADHD) ... then how/why would i share the big stuff.

Does anyone know anything about this Rejection Sensitivity Dysphoria?

OP posts:
AttilaTheMeerkat · 10/06/2023 10:07

yes give that a try. You may find it strange to begin with however keep going. Your voice needs to be heard in your home.

Those questions are relevant in the context of your relationship as a whole. You do not have to answer them here of course.

PTSDBarbiegirl · 10/06/2023 10:08

shardinay · 09/06/2023 20:15

Sorry.., 3 posts in a row. The irony is it's virtually impossible to have a conversation about RSD with a person who has it!

I'm sorry but attaching additional labels or self diagnosis won't help you and your children. He maybe autistic, yes but he sounds like a controlling, petulant emotionally abuse arsehole. It sounds like you should see a lawyer and remove your children from this broken, toxic home. Remember you are taking your children out of a broken home and to a place of emotional safety for you too. My DM was raised in a home like this and she was very traumatised by having to feel like a go between, blaming herself and not understanding the situation. It's a waste of time and v damaging, get out. But be careful, arrange an alternative property and leave him with a lawyers letter. He sounds like he could be explosive in these circumstances.

PurpleBugz · 10/06/2023 10:51

As someone with ADHD and understanding of RSD. mother to PDA child. No diagnosis or label can justify treating people this way. If he was remorseful and trying to address it that's one thing but he's not. I'd leave personally. He sounds controlling and emotionally abusive.

user1471548941 · 10/06/2023 11:05

No diagnosis list for either Autism or ADHD or RSD suggests treating other people abusively or being unable to communicate any thoughts or feelings. Many of us communicate differently and have strong preferences on communication and some are non verbal but as your husband is able to function and progress in the workplace he is clearly able to understand how to appropriately behave towards others and is CHOOSING to treat you in this way.

RSD is a label for how acutely feelings are felt and processed by ND people and how difficult and overwhelming this can be but does not instantly mean weaponising this against others. I noticed you ignored the rest of my post about communication in NT/ND relationships.

Your determination to label this as RSD when your husband MAY experience RSD but it’s part of a far wider and more complex picture is coming across as ableist and harmful so I will step away now.

I’m really sorry your husband treats you like this and I hope you find the strength to leave or resolve it. Please just refrain from spreading damaging misinformation about a whole group of people as you do so.

PaintedEgg · 10/06/2023 11:15

@shardinay this is a tough one because fear of failure is often born out of some level of trauma or at very least is an unpleasant learned behaviour

I can only speak as someone with ADHD, not a spouse of a ND person, but I have also seen this type behaviour (although less extreme) in my dad.

i apologise if I've missed a post where someone said it, but: people with ADHD mess up all the time. The key feature of our disorder is that we forget things, or miss details, we are constantly messing up. Every single day on some level.

Every single person with ADHD I spoke to has memories of being told they're lazy, stupid, careless, useless etc.

As adults we can either internalise it or take on defensive stance like your husband.

However, we are still responsible for our reactions, so you can expect your husband to work on this issue. It will never not hurt to "mess up again", but he can work through his own emotions in those instances.

it may actually help to tell his up-front that you respect him and his intelligence (something he clearly values about himself) to hold him accountable for losing his temper about pizza. He is smart enough to understand his condition, now it's time for him to deal with it instead of expecting everyone else to do it for him.

PaintedEgg · 10/06/2023 11:24

@shardinay I'd also say that I'm giving him a benefit of a doubt, but based on what you're saying his mother may have not been a nicest person, so if he did mess up her tea in the past he probably heard some choice words about.

He also spends a lot more time with you than other people and is probably closer to you than a lot of people so whatever you say has a lot more power over his feelings than what his colleague at work may say (whether he likes it or not)

shardinay · 10/06/2023 11:50

@user1471548941 the irony of you telling me what I'm doing, how I'm doing it wrong, how what I'm saying is wrong and harmful and ableist, that I'm responsible for spreading misinformation. No wonder i retreat and choose silence over the above.

OP posts:
shardinay · 10/06/2023 11:53

@PaintedEgg yes i would say he has a serious issue with failure. In his working life this has meant he's studied and learned and done courses to ensure he never fails. But he hasn't been able/it hasn't occurred to him to apply the same commitment to his relationships.

He did grow up in an old fashioned rural and very religious home where being smacked and berated was standard. His mother recognises she harmed her kids but says she just didn’t know any better. She lives in a different country but is a much better grandparent.

OP posts:
shardinay · 10/06/2023 11:55

Anyway, thank you to every single person who shared their thoughts and experiences. I have a lot to think about and maybe this thread will be the catalyst for change in my life. Can’t make any promises though!

OP posts:
Tots678 · 10/06/2023 12:20

I have RSD. I'm not sure what you describe is it. I can't see what is rejecting about asking someone to pass the salt.
I have a husband who prob has undiagnosed adhd/autism traits. Which ime isn't unusual (that we're married) so are you sure you don't have any traits yourself, or your DCs. You were attracted to a 'quirky' man.
I am very sensitive to DH's grumpy negative tone of voice which he uses a lot when speaking to me. Quite upsetting but I would say he uses it when he is busy, remembering a lot of things, stressed about something. It is extremely annoying for me but pointless discussing it as he claims he didn't use this tone of voice so we get nowhere.

Can you use a deliberately cheerful positive tone of voice when speaking to him. So it is almost impossible for him to respond angrily. I know this puts the emphasis on you changing when it should be him but I would be interested to see if that changed his response to you.

DH was also workaholic. I think your DH is taking on more and more at work and anything else that distracts him from that is a distraction he doesn't want. So it's more that he has too much on his plate and isn't making changes to find time for you or DCs. Would counselling? medication? help.

Phineyj · 10/06/2023 12:50

I think it would be very interesting to say the things you want to say for a week and see how you get on.

Maybe with a pre considered exit plan for if you don't like the outcome. Perhaps alert a close friend.

My 10 year old is diagnosed with ADHD and ASD with PDA features, and while I only heard the term RSA later, she certainly experiences emotions that are way stronger than the norm. She can cover or mask this outside the house.

When she is very disregulated I sometimes lock myself in the loo with a coffee till the ranting etc dissipates...she can say awful, hurtful things. But she is 10 and I am her safe person.

However, my husband (almost certainly the source of these traits) is kind, polite and thoughtful and there's nothing I can't say to him really (he had a kind and supportive upbringing though). He is quite the opposite - he suppresses his feelings, which probably isn't great for him but shows I think that you can express this stuff externally or internally.

I don't think ADHD is different in men/boys and women/girls but the social reaction to outwardly aggressive behaviour is. Girls learn that very early.

HairyKitty · 10/06/2023 16:28

She knows what the outcome is if she communicates normally.
It’s totally evident from this thread that ADHD related RSD manifests completely differently between males and females. It doesn’t matter how many women say they don’t behave like OPs DH, it doesn’t mean he isn’t exhibiting ordinary RSD.

HairyKitty · 10/06/2023 16:30

@shardinay I forgot to say, if you suspect any of your children may have adhd it is absolutely essential that you are open with them and discuss emotional intelligence, lizard brain responses, executive function deficits and RSD. It could change the outcome of their lives.

Tots678 · 10/06/2023 19:00

HairyKitty · 10/06/2023 16:28

She knows what the outcome is if she communicates normally.
It’s totally evident from this thread that ADHD related RSD manifests completely differently between males and females. It doesn’t matter how many women say they don’t behave like OPs DH, it doesn’t mean he isn’t exhibiting ordinary RSD.

The men I know diagnosed with adhd don’t behave like that.

kraftyCheesy · 10/06/2023 19:51

@Tots678 how big is your sample size? Realistically how many men do you properly know with ADHD? And maybe none of them have RSD

Begonne · 11/06/2023 05:35

Has he any inkling how bad the relationship has become?

When you said how his adhd serves him well in his work, it made me wonder if he thinks it’s serving him well at home too?

I actually think that one of your early suggestions to leave something about rsd in his path in the hopes of triggering a hyper focus is a good suggestion. If it works.

And I’m also going to suggest, because communication with him is so challenging, that if you bring this up with him, it might be best to hit hard and fast with the very scary truth of how dangerously close he is to destroying the relationship. If he’s going to shut down criticism, make your first sentence count. So that even if it hurts, he has a chance to hear what he really needs to know.

There are other ways to communicate besides words - and you’re already doing some of these but I’m guessing that your withdrawals probably haven’t registered. (My dps had communication issues - a bit different to yours - but my probably asd df didn’t register my dm’s passive aggressive withdrawals of affection )

It’s going to sound nasty to say that you should do something that affects him adversely. But I don’t mean you should be abusive (walk away before you ever get to that point) but as an example my dm would sleep on the sofa rather than share a bed with my df to make her point. He was oblivious - he enjoyed the extra space and assumed that she had moved to the sofa for space too, and he was happy for her. But if she locked the bedroom door and told him to sleep on the sofa he realised there was a problem.

This is clumsy to communicate. But my impression of you is that you don’t want to end your marriage, and that you have some compassion for his disability (even if it’s nearly exhausted). If he isn’t actually aware how much damage he is doing, then maybe he deserves a chance to try and fix it?

My point is to be conscious whether you’re protecting yourself, or hurting yourself - and I think it’s tipping into the latter for you at this point. I doubt he feels your withdrawal or silence. Packing his bag and telling him to go to his mother’s might get the point across because it inconveniences him directly. (As an example) Obviously passive aggressive communication is not the way forward. Finding a way to directly communicate is what’s ultimately needed (you may both need to develop better non verbal cues as well)

You’re a part of the problem (sorry) if you can’t find a way past the avoidance and people pleasing, because you are letting the relationship whither past recovery. And if you’re going to do that, would it not be better to just leave now (which is also a valid option)? Why waste more precious years? You deserve as much compassion as he does.

BUT - you are the best judge of your own situation - it may not be safe to do anything like this. Sometimes our instincts are protecting us from danger we haven’t openly acknowledged. If there’s a risk of harm, then your safety is paramount.

I’m not intending to be unkind here - or blaming you. But sometimes we get so focused on the other person’s problems that we lose sight of ourselves. Or we don’t recognise that we’re in danger.

The way we conceptualise abuse in marriage is a problem because a lot of women don’t recognise themselves as victims or their partner’s behaviour as abuse. Their perspective is that they are strong women with troubled men. And they don’t notice the erosion of their personhood because they are centering their partner’s problems before their own welfare. And social conditioning already demands that of women so when you’re in a difficult marriage the lines are blurred.

Have you any RL sources of help or support in tackling any of this? If you can find a counsellor with experience of neurodivergence (but whose neurotype matches your own) it might help to work through this. This is far too hard to manage all by yourself. But note that I’m not suggesting marriage counselling - that might be useful at some point (or not) but first find someone just for you. You’re putting a huge amount of thought into him/his problems/his conditions/his diagnosis. Counselling could give you a safe space, with a trained listener where you can use your voice fully without restraint.

shardinay · 11/06/2023 08:46

@HairyKitty my son does have ADHD inattentive type. And you're so right, i need to be on the ball. I actually work in the field of ASD so have just completed Zones of Regulation training and am quite clued into supporting him. And i definitely understand and accommodate my husbands ADHD.. at least i think i do. It's just the RSD the is so hard to cope with.

OP posts:
shardinay · 11/06/2023 08:56

@Begonne such a kind and considered post, thank you. I am definitely part of the problem. I'm passive by nature and often think he would have been better with a woman with a stronger personality. I'm not a great communicator and do tend to withdraw rather than engage as i really don't like arguing.

On some level he must realise how bad things are but maybe he doesn't and if i pointed it out to him he'd be shocked.

I absolutely do have compassion for him. I think it's so sad to have no friends and no one in your corner, no one to talk to. I'm so lucky i have a brilliant network of women who I've been friends with since school.
I think if i didn't have such a full life outside of my marriage my personhood would feel in jeopardy but it doesn't. However i totally agree i am letting the relationship wither and who is that serving in the long term.

We actually went to marriage counselling a few years ago but if I'm being honest neither of us used the strategies suggested for better communication so nothing changed. And we only went to three sessions.

I did a pretty normal day of communicating yesterday. Well... probably not normal by other peoples standards. Only one argument of note! Watch this space.

Just to add, i am not in any physical danger at all. He comes across as exasperated and annoyed and disappointed rather than angry or livid.

OP posts:
Phineyj · 11/06/2023 09:16

I also think @Begonne's advice is good. My SIL is a bit like how you describe yourself, OP, and I've watched over the years how this has fed BIL's giant ego, rather than kept it in check. In my opinion the rot set in when they included the "wives, submit to your husbands" text in their wedding...

Fortunately (and occasionally slightly hilariously), BIL is in a public service type job role and is therefore duty bound to at least appear reasonable 😂

This has put me in the awkward position from time to time of needing to lay down the law and say "No BIL, that doesn't work for us/we won't be doing that/we've thought about your plan and it doesn't take into account..."

He always seems baffled and it's clear to me no-one else in his life ever pushes back!

Good luck OP. You've accidentally created a bit of a monster but hopefully the decent man and dad you married is in there somewhere under the bluster and lack of self-reflection.

If not...there are options.

Tots678 · 11/06/2023 11:29

kraftyCheesy · 10/06/2023 19:51

@Tots678 how big is your sample size? Realistically how many men do you properly know with ADHD? And maybe none of them have RSD

Just family really.
I wouldn't have posted if I'd known OP has a son with ADHD and works in the field of ASD - I was seeing it as a marriage problem.
I have ADHD, I find it veeery hard to apologise.
I read Gabor Mates book Scattered Minds which ticked boxes for me. Though possibly a bit discredited now. He was a high achieving workaholic and might chime with the DH,

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