Think this time really is the last time and we need to separate. Need help.

[lulupop]

Oh God, this could be such a long msg but no point going back to the yr dot with it all. DH and I just had a row and he has screamed at me (as usual, no self-control or thought for DS who was awake in his room) and left the house. I am shaking. I feel all fizzy.

We have had a volatile relationship for such a long time. Things go fine as long as I suppress my frustrations with him but if I bring up how I really feel, it all kicks off. He has no boundaries when it comes to losing tempers and will scream the most appalling things at me, usually in front of the children. We have had 2 separate periods of time going to Relate and all we achieved was that he agreed in principle to setting boundaries, taking time out etc when arguing, but it has always been only till the next time.

He's never been physically violent but he is a real bully and is so abusive I feel like nothing. Just now when I said I was sick of having the same argument over and over again and it made me feel there was no point carrying on, he screamed "Fine! Fine! I will go into work and resign and we can get divorced and you and the kids can have half of NOTHING. And I can tell them that you only married me for the money, you stupid fucking WHORE!"

Not sure what he meant about resigning. I am SAHM and only worked for 2 yrs before having DS. I have no idea how we would live if I left DH but I think I've reached the point where anything has got to be better than feeling like this. All the times we;ve had rows like this before, I've always thought "Don't do anything rash, just give things a chance to settle" and then it goes back to normal for a bit. But nothing changes, it all feels so hopeless now. I don't think I even like him - we certainly seem to be inhabiting different planets. I come from a happy home myself and can't bear the idea of my children not living with both their parents, but don't want them witnessing these sorts of scenes.

I feel stuck in Groundhog Day. No amount of counselling is going to change DH, and though I realise I could change as well, I don't think I can change my personality to accomodate the way he is. He can be very, very nasty when he thinks he's been betrayed, and I am afraid of what would happen if I said I actually wanted to separate formally.

I don't even know how to find a solicitor who could tell me what to do first.

I am supposed to be going to my parents' tomorrow for the night, but now I'm wondering if, if I do so, when I come back he'll have locked me out (he has done this before). What should I do?

Should I lock the door tonight so he can't come back in? I cannot face more of his screaming and ranting at me, with the children hearing it. But afraid of making him even angrier.

Hi Lulu,

Just letting you know I've sent you a CAT containing some info which is far too personal to be put on this forum.

I hope it helps.

Hope its all going ok for you hugs

Lulu, it's been a while since you last posted. It doesn't take that long to wash a baby. ARE YOU OKAY?

I hope you're OK too.

Hi. Sorry I didn't post again last night. After putting the babes to bed we had The Talk.

It went on for 2 hours and was totally draining. The main points that I covered were 1) That addressing me in that abusive manner was indefensible; 2)That running off to Mummy, turning off phone etc (all on his terms) was irresponsible, and it's time he took responsibility for his actions; 3) That while he may be depressed and have lots of concerns about his job, not doing anything about it was destroying his primary relationship and damaging his children 4) That the things he worries about are, anyway, no different to what every other person has to worry about, so if he couldn't deal with it, then he needs help.

His response was that 1)He agreed, so had nothing to say because it was indefensible; 2)He was sorry; 3)&4) He agreed and was going to see the GP about finding a CBT therapist.

He also said he knew that I thought he was weak, did not respect him, and didn't love him. In the past I would have denied all those things regardless of the truth, but this time I just said that the way he was behaving is weak, and that made it hard for me to respect him, and that at the moment, no, I don't feel a lot of love - what exactly does he expect?

We went to bed on OK terms - no screaming or shouting. But I can't say I came away with the feeling he has had any kind of epiphany about what he needs to do. He said the right sorts of things about getting therapy, but also said he couldn't imagine a time when I was in love with him again. To be frank, neither can I at this moment, but I don't know if that's just because I feel so hurt and drained, or if it's just how things are.

I suppose what I should do is try and carry on normally, whilst finding out about what I actually need to do, and what I'm entitled to, if we decide to move into separate homes. I don't want to take any major steps which I can't undo, but at the same time I feel uneasy about it all.

Hi Lulu,
Trying to catch up on this from work (where my screen can be viewed by all) so not a lot of time for typing. But, I wanted to say that this sounds very positive, so long as he follows through. I know that sometimes talk is cheap. But, if he means this you may very well find those feeling that you used to have for him. Good luck! And of course keep us posted.

Hi lulupop, just been reading your thread, I've been away for the weekend so its taken me a while to read through it. It sounds like you have things semi-sorted so I won't go on and on. Just wanted to say that you probably have the right idea to try and work things out whilst building an 'escape' plan for yourself. If I was you I would think about squirreling money away into a secret account, every £5 here and there will help. Then if the worst came to the worst you would have a bit of money to tide you over. I would also go to a solicitor and find out where you stand. You don't sound as if you would want to stop him seeing the children, you sound like a fair minded person who is just unhappy with the relationship as it stands, but it would be as well to find out financially where you are. You would probably qualify for legal aid, or you could try the CAB. The most upsetting thing is that the children are being affected by this, I guess if I was you I would give myself a time limit and not let it go on indefinitely. If things aren't better in 3 months, talk to him in a non angry moment and suggest a seperation perhaps? He ought to move out if you are the primary carer, it would be the morally right thing to do. You could then see how a bit of time and distance helped the situation, but he could still see the children and they wouldn't feel so shell shocked if he just disappeared. Whatever you decide, I wish you lots of love and luck x

Hiya Lulu - well done you. Sounds like you handled Sunday night perfectly, and it should start to sink into his head that you are serious and it's time to change. Make sure he makes that appointment - dp just got a letter from our to confirm that the mental health team woman has been notified of his case and will be in touch which is excellent news for us - for once!!
Now that he knows the score give him a bit of time (not too long!) to get things moving and see if he actually does it. Stay strong and focused and stick to what you said. I'm really hoping that you guys can get past this without having to live seperately. (((((((((bighugs))))))) to you for getting through the weekend so well :)

Well, this morning my best friend down here rang to say hello and although I had meant to keep all this to myself, it came out about what had happened over the weekend. it's a bit hard, because her DH and mone used to work together, and we do see each other as couples, but also we're going to their big Christmas party next weekend, so I'm hoping she'll be OK towards DH (providing he's still here!).

Anyway she has a similarly up and down relationship with her DH so she was really helpful. I think what LeglePartridge said about squirelling money away is right, and I now have located the kids' passports and other important documents, so I could leave quickly if I needed to. As I type this, every part of me thinks "How can you live, bag packed and ready to go, and call that a life?" Surely it's a bit like having a pre-nuptial agreement - bascially before you've even got going you're setting yourself up for failure? But then, he is the father of my children and, while we might never have the kind of marriage I'd hoped for on ym wedding day, surely I should keep trying for as long as I believe there's even a little hope of change? Or is that wet, and self-deluding?

Lulu you're not wet - you've done better this weekend than I could ever do!! I don't think you're deluding yourself by trying to save your marriage. Someone has to fight for it and dh is obviously not in the right mind to do it. It's easy to say 'he's a b'stard, leave him' But at the same time, like you say, he is the man you married and the father of your children - there must be something that you loved in him that is worth fighting for. I really hope you can make it work

Lulupop - absolutely not wet to stay. He is the father of your children, and emotions are complex, sometimes up, sometimes down. The trick is trying to manage the down times satisfactorily so all the family is happy. Its not a popular opinion on some threads around here, but he's the father of your children, they love him and it will rock their world if he isn't around anymore. You owe it to yourself and them to make sure there is absolutely no hope before walking. Plus, then you will always know 30 years down the line you really really tried to make it work. Not wet at all, but definitely brave x

leglepartridge well said. I was starting to feel like maybe i should be saying 'leave him' as well!! I believe its worth the fight :)

Hi Lulupop, glad to hear that you have things sorted in your head, and agree with all of the fab advice given by all, so good luck and keep us posted Hugs

thanks for your support, guys. I suppose I feel a bit hard hearted having this view that I need to get everything sorted to go, should I need to, whilst at the same time trying to hold it together.

Tonight I'm going to talk to him again and try to clarufy whether or not he agrees that it is absolutely not OK to ever abuse me like that again. If he can't control himself for the children, then he's not worth the effort on my part.

Zephyr, great news about the mental health people coming back to you for your dh - did they give you any idea of how long it would be before he can start seeing someone?

Hiya lulu - no idea how long it'll take for dp but I'm not so fussed now I know for sure that he has actually made an effort to do something about it. When we had 'the talk' he agreed that he had to control his temper and the fighting - especially in front of dd yet still when we argue he will lose it. I guess that's the part of him that I can't fix and that's what the councelling or whatever will be for so for the time being I just try my best not to argue!! (not easy!!!) I'm so impressed with you for keeping calm with him! :) Good luck for your talk tonight - I hope he is getting the message and agrees that it's time to sort things out

thanks honey, I hope so too.

I think the fact that your dh has organised the counselling off his own bat is a very good sign. My problem with dh is while he says he's going to do this that and the other, the moment I allow things to get back to "normal", in the name of a harmonious life for the children, dh thinks suddenly everything's ok again so he doesn't need to do anything.

The hard bit tonight is getting him to see that while I don't want us to be at each other's throats every day, the simple fact of me not being angry doesn't mean I'mm happy!

I wish he had done it on his own!! I had to make him do it by telling him that he had to do something to stop his daughter from being scared to death of her own father. That seemed to hit a chord with him. I have the same thing though -we still argue and the next day he'll act as though it never happened and if I don't start another argument he is fine for a couple of days then goes back to 'normal'. It's really really p'ing me off and there are days when I could still walk out the door without thinking twice - but I know that dd would be gutted if he wasn't around so that's what makes me try and stick it out. If he hadn't gone to the doc's to talk about learning to control his temper I don't know what would have happened - I guess I'd have been still going round in the same circles and fights week in week out giving him more and more chances

should say it took a few missed appointments and a few more 'chats' before he actually did it - but we got there eventually

what's wrong with our blokes, hey? I really feel as though I'd like to be the one to lose it totally with him sometimes, but - and I'm not saying I'm perfect, far from it - I somehow manage to exercise some self-control. DH is (as he keeps reminding me) an intelligent man, so why the hell can't he wake up, smell the coffee, and realise that he needs to do the same thing?

I feel as though he's my third child a lot of the time. And he wonders why I don't feel like having sex with him any more...

No idea whatsoever!! I don't know if they are just playing stupid or they really really can't see it! dp is a pretty intelligent guy but when it comes to us he just doesn't get it! It really winds me up - I wouldn't dream of going off the handle at him like he does - although God knows I've felt like it a few times!!! I've given up trying to have proper conversations about the emotional effects of his temper/miserable face and explain things as simply as I can!!!

but doesn't that leave you so frustrated that you end up niggling at him over little things all the time?

That's what happens with me, anyway. Most of the time I just try and make life easier by staying calm (even when I don't feel it) and not saying much. But then every now and then, the socks left on the floor, dishes left in the living room, etc, really get to me and I get really angry about something which dh thinks is minor and irrelevant. And his thinking that sends me into more of a temper - like I should just go round picking up after him all the time and say nothing - and so an argument starts.

yep it drives me absolutely mental - i sent him a text yesterday morning telling him that by the time he comes home everything that he has left on the floor will be in the bin. He wasn't going to get any dinner tonight because the dishes have piled up - i went to do them and just thought 'why should i?' The majority of our big arguments start because of the state of the house or me having a go at him for not helping in the house and leaving crap lying around everywhere. I have come to realise that an awful lot of men do this, not just dp. So many times he's said to me "I might as well live on my own - you don't do anything for me" (ie his washing, ironing, clearing up after him etc etc) Every now and then i go on strike and nothing gets done to the point where he has nothing to wear or eat!! His 'house laziness' is probably the biggest thing that bugs me about him but it's not something i'm prepared to lose him iver so sometimes i do just grin and bear it

yes, I've considered going on house strike too, but since I'm the one in the house 95% of the time, that seems a bit like biting my nose off to spite my face!

I brought this up last night during The Talk and he said "Most of the time, when you tell me off for something, I just think "That's so unimportant" and it pisses me off". And my view is that yes, the odd wet towel on the floor here and there is relatively unimportant, but when it's every day, it's indicative of a general lack of consideration for me.

Or am I being a bit too right-on-feminist here?

lulupop I've only just caught up with this thread - very sorry you're going through this. Your talk with dh sounds promising, but you are right, somehow you will have to repeatedly impress upon him that he has to do something to take control of himself and take responsibility for his own behaviour.

No, it's not too feminist to complain about his lack of respect towards you.

Will follow your thread, I do hope things get better for you x

no you're bang on. I think the reason they think it's no big thing is because a) it's not them having to live in it all day every day - they can just swan off to work without a care in the world and b) it's not them having to pick up after us the same crap day in day out. It drives me to despair. My latest trick is telling him that if it's left on the floor it's going in the bin. It's not quite working yet!! I still have tantrums at him most weekends about the dishes and stuff in the kitchen so he'll maybe do them once and then expect a medal!! Does yours leave empty wrappers on the worktops, leave the cupboard doors open, leave empty packets/boxes in the cupboards or fridge, leave bowls and cups on the floor even though he's walked past the kitchen 20 times but can't be bothered to take it through??!! A few times now he has left a teacup on the floor so i've broken it and told him that dd broke it and how dangerous it was to leave them lying and what would have happened if she'd fallen onto it etc I don't think the messiness will ever change but I'm not going to give up!!!