Think this time really is the last time and we need to separate. Need help.

[lulupop]

Oh God, this could be such a long msg but no point going back to the yr dot with it all. DH and I just had a row and he has screamed at me (as usual, no self-control or thought for DS who was awake in his room) and left the house. I am shaking. I feel all fizzy.

We have had a volatile relationship for such a long time. Things go fine as long as I suppress my frustrations with him but if I bring up how I really feel, it all kicks off. He has no boundaries when it comes to losing tempers and will scream the most appalling things at me, usually in front of the children. We have had 2 separate periods of time going to Relate and all we achieved was that he agreed in principle to setting boundaries, taking time out etc when arguing, but it has always been only till the next time.

He's never been physically violent but he is a real bully and is so abusive I feel like nothing. Just now when I said I was sick of having the same argument over and over again and it made me feel there was no point carrying on, he screamed "Fine! Fine! I will go into work and resign and we can get divorced and you and the kids can have half of NOTHING. And I can tell them that you only married me for the money, you stupid fucking WHORE!"

Not sure what he meant about resigning. I am SAHM and only worked for 2 yrs before having DS. I have no idea how we would live if I left DH but I think I've reached the point where anything has got to be better than feeling like this. All the times we;ve had rows like this before, I've always thought "Don't do anything rash, just give things a chance to settle" and then it goes back to normal for a bit. But nothing changes, it all feels so hopeless now. I don't think I even like him - we certainly seem to be inhabiting different planets. I come from a happy home myself and can't bear the idea of my children not living with both their parents, but don't want them witnessing these sorts of scenes.

I feel stuck in Groundhog Day. No amount of counselling is going to change DH, and though I realise I could change as well, I don't think I can change my personality to accomodate the way he is. He can be very, very nasty when he thinks he's been betrayed, and I am afraid of what would happen if I said I actually wanted to separate formally.

I don't even know how to find a solicitor who could tell me what to do first.

I am supposed to be going to my parents' tomorrow for the night, but now I'm wondering if, if I do so, when I come back he'll have locked me out (he has done this before). What should I do?

Should I lock the door tonight so he can't come back in? I cannot face more of his screaming and ranting at me, with the children hearing it. But afraid of making him even angrier.

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Hiya lulu - have just come in. Haven't read all the posts here yet but just checking in to see if you're ok :)

yes, ok apsrt from just trailed up to town to get fairy lights for the tree (in pathetic hope of something nice - and not involving me crying - to do with ds)

bought them, got home, realised I'd left them in the shop. Idiot.

He hasn't called this morning. he thinks Im at my mums and hasn't even rung to check I and the kids arrived OK (he always does normally). No doubt he is out having a nice boozy lunch with his mum, listening to her opine freely on what a nasty little tramp I am.

Dreading his return tomorrow.

Thanks for the links - I looked at the verbal violence one just now and can say yes to several, but then I realised he would no doubt say yes to quite a few too.

w&r, I was thinking of finding flats etc because he sure as hell isn't going to do so. I can say I want to separate, but it's not as easy as that, is it? I mean, he's not just going to go, Oh OK, I'll just push off then. What should I do about this?

Did you manage to get a message to him last night in the end?
Are you dreading him coming home because you dont want him or because you dont want another argument. I 100% understand when you say you dont want this relationship but at the same time you dont want to be without him. As we were saying last night - it's exactly the same here - its just whether or not we can cope until they actually get themselves sorted out. After all these are the men we chose at one time to spend our lives with so that same person must be in there somewhere - i hope! Sounds like it hasn't been a brilliant day for you with the car and everything. How is ds today? has he asked anything about last night?

Hi Zephyr, yes I sent a msg and also spoke to him this morning.

Same old same old. He;s either a) raging and accusing, or b) contrite and sorry. But I don't believe it any more. The being sorry only lasts until next time.

I don't want him back because I don't want the relationship any more, and I've gone past the point now where I care enough about getting back the person he once was. I feel |'ve tried my best to help him and that is not enough, so he can sort himself out now. He expects me to beg him to come home and be fully engaged in making up when he does return - it's all about him. Not me, not the children. We are all supposed to empathise with him, apparently, regardless of how much hurt he causes.

I have lost the will to do it any more. It;s weird because I've always defended him before, but suddenly it's all gone, and I just feel empty and used up.

Sounds like you're in a place, emotionally, where you can finally do something about it. Good for you. You're braver than me! I like your idea about finding a flat for him closeby. You never know, it may be the kick up the arse wake up call that he needs to get himself sorted. I think that you will be strong enough to do this for you and your little ones. Try and stay as strong as you can - he will no doubt put on the big sob story and try to get you to change your mind - thats the bit where I always give in. ((((((((bighugs)))))) to you and your little ones for the crap weekend you're having but also for having the stregnth to do something about it

thanks zephyr. I know it's going to so hard when he comes home in Sorry mode. He just doesn't seem to "get" the fact that this weekend he has left me, the children and my parents completely distressed. In his mind he "had" to flounce off like a child. But when he actually appears, it's so clear that he is in so much mental anguish over the whole thing, | find it hard to stay strong. In fact, it's easier when he's shouting as then I can shout back and remember how much I hate this rowing all the time.

I am determined though. It's a shame it's only 2 weeks to Christmas but I suppose that's one hurdle I'll just have to jump when we get there.

PS He's phoned my mobile twice in the last half hour - he thinks I'm at my mum's and doesn't want to talk to her (after he hung up on her last night)

I didn't answer as I was bathing and putting to bed little DD, and also I just haven't the energy to speak to him. But perhaps I should, and tell him I want him to move out. He hasn't left a msg though, so no idea what state of mind he's in at the moment and I can't handle another fight.

God I sound pathetic don't I?

No of course you don't. You're only doing what you have to do for you and your little ones. He obviously wants to do things the hard way.
Maybe if you do speak to him tonight you should explain to him - but dont lose your temper - that after he left last night ds was lying on his floor, scared, and shaking, and that for that reason he HAS to do something because it's not fair. Something I did with dp was to tell him that he scared dd so much she was shaking. I then asked him if that made him feel good - if he likes it that his 2 year old baby is scared of him. That was what snapped him into shape and made him realise that something has to give or he loses us once and for all

zeph, I told him that this morning and it was met with stony silence, I think he thinks I make it up.

either that or it makes him feel so guilty there's nothing he can say. Might be worth mentioning it when you are face to face, but as long as you stay calm so he sees that you are sad about it rather than fuming (which i know you are but if you shout at him it gives him an excuse to twist things and make it your fault/problem)

you're right. in a way I think I don't even want to give him any material to feel sorry for - I want him to show me HE recognises what he's done wrong. He takes no responsibility for his actions and then thinks he can come home and pretend it never happened. That's what the rest of his family are like as well, and where before i always thought he was different, I now see that he is not! I feel like a veil has been lifted. At the same time though, I don't want to be unkind and hurtful. He is the father of my children, and a good father at that.

I learnt the hard way with dp that the only way to make him realise that HE was the one who was in the wrongwas with that speech about hurting the children. Unfortunately I think some guys are simple creatures and they can't see things unless you blatantly shove it in their face.
When I told dp that his behaviour was affecting dd I told him that I didn't care anymore about us or about what he thought about me, but that I would not tolerate him hurting our children (make sure you say 'ours' and not 'mine' or they get arsey about that too!!!) and that he needs to think about how it feels to have his little baby being scared of him. I know you shouldn't have to do it but you really have to work at pointing out the black and white to them before they get it

but i decided that i do want the kids to have their dad and i want him to be with them and if that means i have to point things out to him every single day to make him take note of what he's doing then I'll do it to keep us together - even though it's a real pain in the arse!!

Thinking about it he also gets away with more than he should because I know that he is depressed and he's not right just now - me being the soft idiot that i am with him knows that if i push him away it might just tip him over the edge so i am trying to find a way to get him through it. But as you have said - the first step is to get to admit the problem.

I'm not trying to convince you to let him get his way or to be soft with him - I think you are being brilliant about this all. At the same time I know that like me, deep down you want your family together

lol just read that back - god i go on!!! I'll stop now - here is my idea though......

Don't make it about him. Don't make it about you. You will go round and round the same old circles. Tell him you both have to sort your relationship out before it hurts ds anymore than it already has. If he can't do it for his children then it probably isn't worth saving.

I do want to stay together, zephyr, and I have always up to now made the same allowances as you do for "He's depressed" But actually, I'm starting to wonder where I figure in all this. I don't get the chance to be "depressed", I have to get on with it. He wallows in self-pity and self-regard and I truly, truly don't know if I can live with it any more. The only thing that has held me up to this point is a)the children and b)the financial dependence. But I'm fast getting to the stage where I don't care any more, I just can't live like this.

Not sure how to tell him this.

be honest and be calm. From the sounds of it if you get angry he will too and it will be a repeat of last night. If he phones you again tonight are you going to answer?

Hi lulupop (and marvellously named OnZephyrstdayofXmas!) I hope you dont mind if I interrupt! Im sorry I havent read the whole thread but from what i have read you seem to have lingering doubts about whether to split with him. FWIW the image of your ds lying on the floor wimpering made me cry - Unless your dh is prepared to perform an a complete personality swop i think for the sake of yourself and your kid(s) you should part and begin a new chapter in your life - i know its going to be hard but i really really wouldnt want your ds to have anymore memories of his parents arguing

{{{{{{{{{{{{{}}}}}}}}}}}}}}} thinking of you :(

Given that it's the weekend, when he returns tomorrow, your only true option here is to determine what mood he's in. I say that as you may have to call the police to have him ejected if he goes off like a rocket.

On Monday, you'll then have to find a friendly lawyer who can get you a prohibitive steps order PDQ to stop him returning.

Lulupop, you sound determined to end it, and frankly I am glad that you are. I can totally understand you being worried about telling him about it, it's just exhausting thinking about it in advance isn't it? Do you worry about finding the best way of telling him things so that he doesn't take it badly? Or about him doing the whole "I feel so sorry about it" and guilt-tripping you, trying to manipulate you so that you end up thinking the whole thing is your fault. Don't let him. If he was really serious about changing, he would already have done something about it, like properly addressing his depression and getting it treated, including some counselling to deal with his abusive behaviour. I've once seen a leaflet offering counselling specifically for abusers, but the crucial thing is that they have to admit they have a problem. My ex was always (still is) in complete denial about it though, your soon to be ex sound like he is too.
Hope you're OK.

thanks all, I am OK. The little ones are (finally) asleep. my brain is fried and I must sleep.

you are all wondefully supportive, kind people. Thank you for being here for me.

Back tomorrow...

Hi Lulupop. How are you today? I hope everything's okay and you, and your children are well. Thinking of you.

Been thinking about you too lulu -hoping everything is ok when he comes home today

Evening all. Not much time at the mo as have to bath DS, but will be back later.

DH got home about 3pm. I had planned to just be calm and normal, not discuss anything till hte kids were asleep. So far so good, but the neighbours have dropped in to see the kids and so I have had no chance at all to assess DH's frame of mind. He's said nothing at all to me.

His mum rang my mum, and from what I've heard from her, DH has rationalised all this into it all being about me being exhausted because of the children.

he always does this - tries to break the argument down into manageable headings which he can address. I think I'm just going to tell him either he gets some professional therapy to address his rage and help alter his pattern of behaviour, or it's over.

Back later.