Think this time really is the last time and we need to separate. Need help.

[lulupop]

Oh God, this could be such a long msg but no point going back to the yr dot with it all. DH and I just had a row and he has screamed at me (as usual, no self-control or thought for DS who was awake in his room) and left the house. I am shaking. I feel all fizzy.

We have had a volatile relationship for such a long time. Things go fine as long as I suppress my frustrations with him but if I bring up how I really feel, it all kicks off. He has no boundaries when it comes to losing tempers and will scream the most appalling things at me, usually in front of the children. We have had 2 separate periods of time going to Relate and all we achieved was that he agreed in principle to setting boundaries, taking time out etc when arguing, but it has always been only till the next time.

He's never been physically violent but he is a real bully and is so abusive I feel like nothing. Just now when I said I was sick of having the same argument over and over again and it made me feel there was no point carrying on, he screamed "Fine! Fine! I will go into work and resign and we can get divorced and you and the kids can have half of NOTHING. And I can tell them that you only married me for the money, you stupid fucking WHORE!"

Not sure what he meant about resigning. I am SAHM and only worked for 2 yrs before having DS. I have no idea how we would live if I left DH but I think I've reached the point where anything has got to be better than feeling like this. All the times we;ve had rows like this before, I've always thought "Don't do anything rash, just give things a chance to settle" and then it goes back to normal for a bit. But nothing changes, it all feels so hopeless now. I don't think I even like him - we certainly seem to be inhabiting different planets. I come from a happy home myself and can't bear the idea of my children not living with both their parents, but don't want them witnessing these sorts of scenes.

I feel stuck in Groundhog Day. No amount of counselling is going to change DH, and though I realise I could change as well, I don't think I can change my personality to accomodate the way he is. He can be very, very nasty when he thinks he's been betrayed, and I am afraid of what would happen if I said I actually wanted to separate formally.

I don't even know how to find a solicitor who could tell me what to do first.

I am supposed to be going to my parents' tomorrow for the night, but now I'm wondering if, if I do so, when I come back he'll have locked me out (he has done this before). What should I do?

Should I lock the door tonight so he can't come back in? I cannot face more of his screaming and ranting at me, with the children hearing it. But afraid of making him even angrier.

The point is their slovenliness and lack of effort around the house is a surface symptom of their general lack of respect for you.

zephyr, yes to all your list of Annoying Things They Do.

The bin thing sounds good, but if I worked like that, half his wardrobe would be in the bin by the end of the week, he'd just go and buy more stuff, and there'd be no money for food.

SD, I definitely feel it's sympotmatic of lack of respect.

Tonight we just dealt with the abusive behaviour issue. He was v defensive so I rammed it home with a reiteration of how DS was frightened by his behaviour and that seemed to upset him enough to get him to see the damage done.

Still like pulling teeth though.

I cooked no supper as a minor house strike attempt.

Going to have a bath in a bit and go to bed. It is SO cold!

bloody freezing isnt it!!! Well done though - you've got him thinking. Will take time but keep it going :) xx

wow what a fun morning it was in the Zephyr house this morning!! Last night dp got home close to 11pm - I had to wait up as he has lost his keys. When he came in I was ironing his shirt for today. He went in the kitchen to get a bowl of cereal and started moaning that there were no clean bowls (as i'm on strike!) He then turned around and said that he'd washed his bowl yesterday and i still hadn't done all the washing up!!!!! One bowl!?!?!?!
So I didn't argue, I just took ds and went to bed. This morning I stayed upstairs with ds while he was downstairs with dd getting ready for work - I really couldn't be bothered to see him. Came down to the bathroom and he says "Where is that letter from ?" I said I dont know and went back upstairs. He flipped!!! He does it every* time. He cant put stuff away then it's my fault when he can't find it. So he went to work saying I dont do anything to help him, he'd be better off living on his own and he's going to ask everyone at work if there's somewhere he can stay.
What a complete prick!!!!

I sent him a text saying as he doesnt need me he won't have a clean, ironed shirt tomorrow for work, he wont have any dinner and I'm not waiting up to let him in!!

Oh just remembered why I didnt get up - he asked me as soon as he woke up if I'd asked W&R something about a threatening letter he'd got and I said no so he went into one and shouted 'Do you want me to leave????'

Um......let me think about that one!!!!

omg - get rid of him

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Thanks W&R My thoughts exactly!!! Unfortunately his latest dilemma involves me too but he's the one having a panic about it!! There was a phone bill payment that went awol from my card ages ago. I thought it was sorted but he's just suddenly recieved a letter saying that they are taking him to court for £140 (bill was only £20something but we haven't had any previous correspondance from them until now (although they are saying we have)

my God, Zephyr, I think we could well be living with the same man, It's actually weird how many similarities there are in the things your dp and my dh do!

I think the way things are going to go with my dh is that he'll get this counselling, which may well help him see how his behaviour needs to change, but probably won't. Meanwhile I feel I have to give it the benefit of the doubt, as whatever my feelings, I don't want to split up our family unless there really is no hope of improvement.

When we went to Relate last year, the main problem I had with the sessions was that when we got onto DH's abusive behaviour, the counsellor said that Relate took the same approach to Verbal abuse as they do to physical violence. The approach is that, while the perpetrator needs to realise the behavious is unacceptable, the victim also has to "take responsibility for their part", and learn "not to push the other person to their flash point". Sorry, what?

Depressingly, DH told me last night that while he did promise not to shout those things at me again, I should also realise when to "wind my neck in". I just repeated that I am not responsible for his temper, and frankly, even if he came home and found me having sex with the plumber on the living room floor, that sort of rage was inappropriate.

He just doesn't seem able to understand how unusual his temper is. I am pinning all my hopes on CBT getting him to understand this, but am concerned that the way he comes across all rational and calm when talking to counsellors (this is how he was at Relate, and I looked like the angry one ) will mean the counsellor won't really get to grips with what he's like.

What do you think W&R? I know your DH works in this area. Is it all about the client starting off by admitting they have a real problem, or is it possible for this to be illustrated to them during the sessions?

zephyr, just keep focusing on the potential positive outcome fo your dp/s counselling. Easier said than done, I know. Thinking of you

W&R, I've only just seen your Sunday post about sending me a CAT (must have crossed posts at the time) - I haven't received the msg yet. Any chance you could try it again? Thanks for thinking of me

dp has apologised. Apparently there was an underlying issue with his 'rage' today. Someone has put a massive dent in his shiny new car - like i was meant to know that???!!!

Sounds like you need a crystal ball from Santa this year Zephyr Hope your all doing ok today, and various partners being reasonable for a change....hugs

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Unlesss you always pick up the mail yourself, you may have had previous correspondence you just don't know about. One cold winter, there was a muffled explosion when the heat came on went into the basement to find that the furnace had exploded in a small way. Went to call landlord only to find the phone didn't work. I had given the phone bill to then-H to mail (having written the check out of my money, stamped envelope, etc he just had to put it in the mailbox on the corner). He had forgotten it in his pocket, and when the overdue notices came he threw them away before giving me the mail because he remembered that he had mailed the bill so he figured they were (all) in error. When the phone didn't work I searched his coat pockets and found the unposted bill, and then he admitted to throwing away the overdue notices. He is now ex-H and DH, who is about as reliable as I am, pays only bills that can be paid on-line automatically. And is very, very patient when I give him things to mail on the way to the grocery store and then when he gets back demand to know if he mailed them (although I do not insist on searching his pockets as unlike ex-H he would actually know he hadn't, admit to it, and go back and do it).

Hi guys - it's only me who picks up the mail so there's definately been nothing else.
I'm pretty sure there's no mention of a default notice or anything in the letter (dp's got it in the car but will check) It basically says it's going to court as they have had no response to previous correspondance. The last correspondance we had was months ago when they phoned us but nothing since.

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lol thanks you're a superstar

Hiya lulupop - just checking to see how it's going?

Hi there. Bit of a low day today. Had my friend to stay last night so dh and I just acted "normal". Friend is getting married next year and she's so, so in love - listening to her talking about the things she and her fiance have planned made me realise how little - beyond the children - dh and I have in common. I know most of my friends think he's a bit of a knob, and where previously I stood up for him, I now just agree. I think he's a nice person and a good father, but I think I've lost all my respect for him as a partner. And I don't know that, once you feel like that, you can ever get back to a healthy relationship.

DS has said a couple of things about "When is my Daddy coming home?", and "I really really love Daddy" today, and while I know it's just the ordinary chatter of his day, it brings tears to my eyes.

I can't think of anything worse than tearing our little family apart, but I can't think of anything worse than grinding on like this for the next 30 years either.

Not so good today then Sounds like you really really are close to going. Do you think ds is saying those things because he senses something is up and is worrying about dh going? I know what you mean about hearing other people talking about getting married and being happily in love. I also have a friend who has been doing this for ages but I try to use it to think of how things were between us and how i want them to be again. As it turned out I spoke to the girls fiancee on msn and it turns out he doesn't want to marry her he's only doing it because she wants it so much and they have two kids!! I have to admit I don't really have meuch respect left for dp either but i think i could start to respect him again when he gets off his a**e and gets himself sorted out!!

Yes, I do feel close to leaving. What you say about getting back to how you used to feel - the last few times we've had an episode like this, that's what I felt too. And DH genuinely can't understand why I'm so flat and lifeless after last weekend. His view is: you argue. you make up, you move on. But I think it's the constant repetition of that cycle that has left me feeling it's all so pointless now.

I also suspect that although he says he loves me, he is really only saying that because he knows that if we do split up, I'll get the kids, and he'd do anything to keep seeing them every day. I don't think he'd behave the way he does towards me if he really loved me.

I'm probably just feeling worse today as I've had my mum on the phone every couple of hours going on about it. She is really good and very supportive of us both, but she also finds it all very stressful. One minute she's saying I shouldn't put up with all this, the next she's saying that since I'm the strong one, I should try to be nice to DH and maybe then things would get better.

I am going down to my parents' on friday just for the night, without the kids, and I know I'm going to get the third degree about what my plans are. My mum all emotional about the terrible effect on her grandchildren, my dad all practical about the legal side. It's making me feel tired just thinking about it!

Don't blame you. It's so hard isn't it? Get him together with my dp and they can go out and be horrible old gits together!!
Has he got many friends who he can talk to or are you the closest one to him so you get the brunt of his misery/depression/patheticness?!!!

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hiya wig - how was the play? have put a thread up for you in legal/money about the letter