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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Think this time really is the last time and we need to separate. Need help.

319 replies

lulupop · 10/12/2004 20:34

Oh God, this could be such a long msg but no point going back to the yr dot with it all. DH and I just had a row and he has screamed at me (as usual, no self-control or thought for DS who was awake in his room) and left the house. I am shaking. I feel all fizzy.

We have had a volatile relationship for such a long time. Things go fine as long as I suppress my frustrations with him but if I bring up how I really feel, it all kicks off. He has no boundaries when it comes to losing tempers and will scream the most appalling things at me, usually in front of the children. We have had 2 separate periods of time going to Relate and all we achieved was that he agreed in principle to setting boundaries, taking time out etc when arguing, but it has always been only till the next time.

He's never been physically violent but he is a real bully and is so abusive I feel like nothing. Just now when I said I was sick of having the same argument over and over again and it made me feel there was no point carrying on, he screamed "Fine! Fine! I will go into work and resign and we can get divorced and you and the kids can have half of NOTHING. And I can tell them that you only married me for the money, you stupid fucking WHORE!"

Not sure what he meant about resigning. I am SAHM and only worked for 2 yrs before having DS. I have no idea how we would live if I left DH but I think I've reached the point where anything has got to be better than feeling like this. All the times we;ve had rows like this before, I've always thought "Don't do anything rash, just give things a chance to settle" and then it goes back to normal for a bit. But nothing changes, it all feels so hopeless now. I don't think I even like him - we certainly seem to be inhabiting different planets. I come from a happy home myself and can't bear the idea of my children not living with both their parents, but don't want them witnessing these sorts of scenes.

I feel stuck in Groundhog Day. No amount of counselling is going to change DH, and though I realise I could change as well, I don't think I can change my personality to accomodate the way he is. He can be very, very nasty when he thinks he's been betrayed, and I am afraid of what would happen if I said I actually wanted to separate formally.

I don't even know how to find a solicitor who could tell me what to do first.

I am supposed to be going to my parents' tomorrow for the night, but now I'm wondering if, if I do so, when I come back he'll have locked me out (he has done this before). What should I do?

Should I lock the door tonight so he can't come back in? I cannot face more of his screaming and ranting at me, with the children hearing it. But afraid of making him even angrier.

OP posts:
stressedmummy · 09/01/2005 20:11

Me too!
I wish I had her strength!
I shall get my thread up now & you can see what has been happening!

Loobie · 10/01/2005 09:38

Lulopgood luck and big{{{{{hugs}}}}} for this afternoon,remember its your first step to a new free life.
Loobie xx

ladygarden · 10/01/2005 12:21

Hi Lulu,
Please tell us how the meeting with the solicitor went, hope it went well. I think there's plenty of us out here that would find it useful to know what he said! Well done for going.

lulupop · 10/01/2005 13:43

hi, just about to go...

acvtually I feel sick with nerves about it and afraid I won't come away with all the information i need.

I have made a list though.

It is so depressing.

Will come back and update you all tonight.

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stressedmummy · 10/01/2005 13:47

Oh good luck lulupop!

stressedmummy · 10/01/2005 17:29

How did it go lulupop?

stressedmummy · 10/01/2005 17:53

Been thinking of you today lulu.
Are you ok?

nutcracker · 10/01/2005 18:08

Lulupop, please don't be so hard on yourself.

I met dp when i was 18, he was 38. We started a relationship even though i wasn't 100% sure it was what i wanted and i moved in with him 2 weeks later, nearly wrecking my realtionships with my dad and brothers in the process.
4mths later i was pregnant with Dd1. I think at that point i had manged to convince myself that things would be ok and so life was fine at that point, dd1 was born in nov 97 and that was that.
Quite a few things happened after that some good some bad but we did manage to buy a house which made me feel alot better about the relationship (why i don't know), and we decided to have Dd2 who was born in dec99.
After that the cracks really started to show, dd2 was a very bad sleeper and i had pnd. Dp decided he would have a mid life crisis and took voluntary redundancy from work, failed to get another job, spent the money and we lost the house.
They were truley the lowest days of my life.
We moved to a rented shoebox after i walked the streets searching for a property but things were still very bad.
About 6mths later we got offered a housing association flat. That was my big chance, to leave dp and start afresh, he could have stayed in the rented house and i could have moved to the flat....what did i do ????? let him move to the flat with us.

Incredibly and i don't know why as the relationship was crap, he managed to persuade me to have another baby and i got pregnant with Ds who was born in dec02.
I love ds to bits but it made my life alot worse as we were then stuck in an overcrowded damp flat in a loveless relationship.

As you may know, we were finally moved from the flat to a house last july. It was what i had spent 18mths fighting for, the one thing i was sure would mend our relationship.
I was wrong, nothing will ever ever mend it because i don't love him and haven't for years.
I still haven't managed to take any steps to sorting this out one way or another, and feel like i am letting myself and my kids down, and sticking my head in the sand.

You are brave, you have made your desicion and are setting about sorting your life out, good for you.
Everyone makes mistakes, god knows i have made loads, big ones too.
Don't be so hard on your self, you are doing a great job of getting the life you want for you and your kids.

Good luck to you, hope you got on ok today.

Nutty xxxxxxxx

stressedmummy · 10/01/2005 18:16

How sad for you nutcracker.

hattynewyear · 10/01/2005 18:18

lovely post nutcracker. In fact has nearly brought a tear to my eye. You shouldn't be hard on yourself either - you've been brave as well. Lulupop - hope things went ok

hattynewyear · 10/01/2005 18:19

just realised thatt "lovely post" might sound a bit odd. What I meant was it was good - touching - of you to share your story with the intention of helping Lulupop

lulupop · 10/01/2005 19:03

my God, Nutty, I really feel for you. I think to someone outside this kind of situation, what we have done might sound in some way "weak", and maybe I have been weak, but i really know what it feels like to keepletting yourself be carried along, hoping and praying things will get better, when they just don't.

I would love a third child but not with dh and that is yet another thing that tells me this is over.

Well done for getting yourself into a house. It is very hard being stuck in a loveless arrangement. Can you not get him to leave? I know it's not as simple as that, but if it came down to it, could you force him to go?

I also wasn't sure about my dh when we met, but he was so keen and I was so impressionable... when I look back, all along the way there were signs that he wasn't right for me, but I was so naive and insecure about finding anyone else, I just stuck with it. I knew I shouldn't get PG with DD, but I let him convince me it was a good idea. And I wouldn't be without her now, either, but still, there are so many regrets along the way. But I digress.

My appointment this afternoon was depressing in terms of the facts, but good in that I know how things might proceed now, and also what I have to do to prepare myself.

I will give a synopsis of the info, which I hope will help some of you as well:

Basically, she said that if I want to divorce on grounds of Unreasonable Behaviour, I have to provide a variety of examples. These don't have to be like a log book (could be as vague as "Spring 2002"), but you need to first determine some "themes" (eg. spending all the housekeeping on booze, gambling, not spending time with the kids...) and then come up with at least 3 examples of each Theme. ideally the examples will be spread over a long period of time, to show a pattern of behaviour.

He cannot cite my one-off infidelity as grounds for divorce for Adultery, as whatever the grounds for divorce are, they have to have occurred within the last 6 months.

As there is not enough money for us to keep our family home AND buy. rent a second residence for him, we have to sell . The court sees the wellbeing of the children as paramount, so if necessary, ALL the proceeds from the sale will go to me, to neable me to rehouse myself and the kids. HOWEVER, any new home will have a charge against it such that, as and when I remarry/resell the home, the proceeds of the sale at that future time will be divided between me and dh in the proportions which would be "fair" now. In the meantime, he would be expected to get himself a new mortgage and start again with a new home.

I would get residence of the babes as they are still so young. DH is obliged to maintain me as well as them; but as and when I get a job, his maintenance payments will be reduced by the equivalent amount that I earn (if this makes anyone think there's no point getting a job, the solicitor told me the courts will only tolerate this up to a point - eg if your kids are in full time school and there's no reason why you can't work, you have to get a job). I want to support myself anyway, so not a problem I guess.

She advised me to contact the CAB re all the tax credits I can get to cover childcare etc.

If I had no money at all in my own name, I would be entitled to legal aid. In my case though, I have some money in a savings acct in my sole name - this is actually "our" savings, but is in my acct as it was the only separate acct we have from the main one. That;s good in one way, as it means it's "mine" as far as the law goes, but it also means that I won't get legal aid, as I do have some money. Ironically, it will/would all be used up in legal fees anyway, and then I won't have a bean to my name. If I didn't have it, I'd get the legal aid, but since I do, I won't.

I think that's pretty much it.

If I wish to proceed, a downpayment of £1,000 is required. She told me to find and photocopy every single document relating to our joint finances, and all bank statements for 12 months as well, in the meantime.

So that will keep me busy for a month or so, while I think some more about if this is really really the right thing to do.

I know in my heart it is. But it is so sad and final.

OP posts:
Yurtgirl · 10/01/2005 20:17

Message withdrawn

nutcracker · 11/01/2005 10:17

LOL Yurtgirl i'm glad you now understand me, can you explain me to me now please ??

Honestly though, i only wrote what was true. I still haven't completely decided what i am going to do. No i don't love him but he is not awful to me etc etc and i keep thinking "it could be worse', which is stupid i know.

It is so hard to decide, what to do for the best.

Anyway don't wish to hyjack lulupops thread so i'll shut up now.

Oh also, these posts of mine should dissapear soon as i have asked for all my posts to be deleted, not because of what i've written on here but because of a prob on another thread.

Lulupop - You seemed to find out alot yesterday at least, which is good. on your behalf about the legal aid bit though.

If you don't mind me saying, you still seem a bit undecided though, are you ??

lulupop · 11/01/2005 11:51

It's not that I'm undecided exactly - it's more that I feel like you: I know I don't love him, but he's not that bad either, so I keep thinking maybe I'm being selfish.

I know in my head that what everyone says about children being happier with 2 parents apart, but happy, than with the constant tension, but still, he's not THAT bad, and it's hard to arrive at a final decision without some sort of definitive "reason". Splitting up because you just don't see eye to eye any more seems a bit feeble.

Clearly I can't proceed with the "next stage" until I am sure, because of the costs involved. So in the meantime I'm going to get fully up to speed on all our financial documentation, see the CAB, start looking into what sort of job I could get and what it might pay, and get an idea of what type of residence I might be able to buy, either here (my preference) or where my parents live (a bit cheaper i expect).

Last night DH told me he was going to sleep in the spare room as he just couldn't cope with the total lack of communication any more. I asked him what he meant and he said it seemed I had nothing to say to him. And guess what? I had nothing to say! I just felt really sad, and too tired (it was 11.30pm) to have a big conversation about it all at that point.

Psychologically I am hoping that once I feel I've got on top of all the facts, I'll be mentally stronger about facing The Conversation with him.

Oh, and Nutty, you're not hijacking my thread at all! It's great to chat with like-minded people who understand - most of my friends in RL (the ones who know the full extent of these problems, anyway) just can't understand at all why I haven't left him yet.

OP posts:
Yurtgirl · 11/01/2005 13:03

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Yurtgirl · 11/01/2005 13:09

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lulupop · 11/01/2005 13:11

I know I know I know. The thing is, he's such a man of extremes, when he's not at the wrong extreme, it's almost as if I imagined it.

He's either in stupid fucking whore mode, or doting husband. It breaks my heart to hurt him. except when he;s being abusive and then I just want him to go.

I realise how irrational I sound. It's just hard to imagine stepping outside my life into the unknown. I don't WANT to have to move away from my friends, my neighbourhood, my life, but obviously I would do so if I or the kids were in danger. It's much harder to think in those black and white terms when he's being nice. Even though I still don't love him, I don't hate him either.

OP posts:
Yurtgirl · 11/01/2005 13:14

Message withdrawn

Yurtgirl · 11/01/2005 13:19

Message withdrawn

lulupop · 11/01/2005 13:31

yes, I was quite speedy there - am just utilising DD's nap time (DS watching Peter Pan!) to do some research online, with another window open for MN!

I have found this site to be very helpful, for those who are interested.

I started off by just telling my very closest friend here the situation. In the last few days, I have told my 2 other good friends, and none of them has been even remotely surprised at anything I've told them.

I am a bit worried about so many people knowing, in case I bottle the whole thing and then they have to act as though they know nothing when he's around. On the other hand, I sort of think the more people I tell, the more I am being forced to realise how our relationship is not normal, and so that bolsters my thinking a bit.

Off now to turn the TV off and get DD up. Thanks for your support and advice.

OP posts:
Newbarnsleygirl · 11/01/2005 13:36

Just caught up with your thread Lulupop. Sorry to hear your feeling so bad. I have started a thread "Message for Lulupop" to see how you got on. Just to let you know I know you don't really know me but if you want to call just to chat your more than welcome. I know you'll probably have other things to think about than that job but I'm quite happy to listen.
Hope your ok.

lulupop · 11/01/2005 16:49

nbg, will definitely ring tomorrow AM. Sorry haven't been in touch earlier, but yday was complete panic with the kids and the solcitor in the afternoon, then today we've had DS' friends round ALL DAY! And it's raining so we haven't been out!

House is like a tip, must go and clear up.

OP posts:
stressedmummy · 11/01/2005 17:30

I have just caught up with your post from last night lulu, as I had a friend round in the evening yesterday, so could not go on the pc.
Wow, there is such a lot to take in!
I can see why people don't bother divorcing properly & just seperate due to all the costs!
I understand exactually where you are coming from when you say you sometimes find it hard to believe your H behaved as bad as he did when he is being nice again.
I am exactually the same & almost felt guilty for starting my thread the other day, when my H was being nice to me & telling me the qualities that he loves about me.
I then took a look down my thread & reminded myself just what we have been through in the last few weeks & was shocked!
I think it is helpful to have the thread to look back at, because it is easy to blank out bad experiences when things seem good again & it is like they never happened. Until next time!
Well done for taking the first step of action to a happier life.
{{{{{{{{{{}}}}}}}}}}}

lulupop · 11/01/2005 19:16

SM, I also thought that separation would be less costly, but actually one of the key things that came out of yday's appt was that it isn't. Some people go for a Judicial Separation (for example, if you've got a wife in her 50s who doesn't want to lose rights to the H's pension) if they don't want to divorce for practical or religious reasons. However, the legal process towards a Judicial Separation is exactly the same as going towards a decree nisi. The only difference is that at the end, you are still married, but just separate.

If you then decide a yr later that you do want a divorce after all, you have to go through the same process all over again (clocking up the costs all over again too).

You can't start along one path and then decide actually you want to do something different. So, that's why I feel I need to know exactly what I want to be the end result before I start, as we can't even afford a divorce, never mind a protracted legal situation.

That site I did a link to ealier is really good on all the technical points, if you have the time to look

OP posts: