Had a baby with a hoarder but I can’t cope anymore with him moving in.

[Onetwothree45]

We have been together 3 years and have a 6 month old. We lived in separate houses. His house was always a mess and full to the brim. I then got pregnant and he has moved into my house. His house is going to be rented.

I can’t cope anymore every drawer and cupboard is getting filled with things he has never used or did 15 years ago. He brings empty packages and rubbish. He won’t sort through and organise anything. I can’t put his clothes away as his drawers are full of crap like memorabilia or wires and old tablets etc. He has clothes from childhood in them when he’s 33 now. There is shit absolutely everywhere. He keeps going to charity shops and car boots and getting more when his house is probably only 30% empty. He gets quite angry when I put my foot down. We’ve got 5 bookshelves full of dvds now and several drawers. So nothing can be put in them.

I can’t cope anymore and have been crying all morning. He’s thrown a strop and filled up his car and taken a load back to his house. I can’t see this working. I’m really unhappy and don’t like being in my house. The baby will be crawling soon so it’s dangerous. Every time I speak to him he has an excuse or say Im just moaning again. It’s never going to end we will be surrounded by rubbish.

He got upset yesterday as I threw away a chocolate fish that was 6 years out of date but he wanted to keep it as a memento.

He has a house he can take stuff too though!

OP has a house with her children in it, he has a house for his projects and collections.

She needs him to father his baby, and she's found out he hoards stuff. She is not powerless here, she can keep it out of her house. Which is what she is doing.

Years ago we had a couple of friends who invited us round for dinner, in Marylebone. My DH warned me about the flat we were going to, he said x doesn't clean up so don't be shocked.

Don't be shocked! I'm surprised I could eat anything! It was a hovel. But actually he was a good cook and the plates were clean.

He had a long term partner of 20 years and I asked her how she put up with it and she said, I don't, I don't live here, but if he wants to live like this he can. She had helped him with the food prep to make sure it was clean enough for her to eat there but that was it.

Fair enough.

Why did he want to move in with me and rent his out. He had plenty more room in his house. It’s organised how he wants and no one telling him he can or can’t have something, he didn’t need to share is space? Why didn’t he just stay single and save the hassle, especially if he only cares about stuff?

You need to ask him those questions OP, none of us can tell you but it's natural for you to ask.

The problem is though, you're dealing with an addict. So however you word the question, however gently or firmly you ask, however you frame the situation to him, you aren't going to get logical answers.

Because he's an addict.

It's like saying to an alcoholic 'why did you start a family if you were always going to keep drinking'. They always think their addiction can co-exist with whatever else they want in their life. They may desperately hope to maintain the other bits of their life.

But for as long as their addiction is active, it will always come first.

He wouldn't even get rid of a bunch of old, worn out shoes for you. For the mother of his child. I'm not saying that to paint him as cruel, I'm saying it to try to show you the extent of his issue. He won't get rid of objectively useless rubbish to make you, the woman he loves and mother of his child, happy. Because in his mind, nothing in his hoard is objectively useless. Even when it factually is. Because his addiction attaches meaning to everything he owns and makes those things more important even than you. And his child.

He threw away half but still the rest is rubbish and he wasn’t happy doing it.

https://www.hoardersson.com/2013/06/coh-talking-points.html?m=1

Bear in mind that your baby is, and always will be, the child of a hoarder; one way or another this will be a major defining factor of her childhood and young adulthood. Please take steps to safeguard her and get her the support she will need to help her come to terms with her father's illness and the hereditary aspect of it.

Really, I think you need to leave him for his own good - he isn't going to change, as a collector my whole life I won't, and nor will he. You are chalk and cheese.
You will never be able to accept his habits and your actions in trying to force the issue is causing the poor guy mental anguish - you will both be OK and happy as separate entities.
As I mentioned earlier, my wife of 20+ years and I don't live together and never have, she finds my "museum" in the creepy old gothic hose facsinating but couldn't live in it, we've had a great marriage, but have our own spaces, (hers is dull, pastel grey, sofa, telly and a lamp, jeez!!) this could work for you too.

Your baby will very likely end up as a young carer; it's worth giving some thought to how that can be managed.

@tonyatotter mine is anything but boring, I’ve a masters in design so my taste is absolutely not grey! I accommodate his and have integrated his and my stuff on the walls together quite well. It’s not exactly a museum when it’s old shoes and empty bubble wrap envelopes, hardly something you keep in display cabinets. I could accommodate a proper collection and interest.

But those of you are right in that I’m trying to get him to be something he is not. The thing is it was his idea but now that is real he can’t do it.

Ok so as I said, he wasn't willing to get rid of objectively useless / broken / duplicate etc stuff to make you happy.

Despite you carrying and giving birth to his child and being the woman he loves.

That is how deep his addiction is, he will prioritise broken shoes and old restaurant menus above your mental wellbeing and happiness.

Are you not willing to tell him that you love him but can't live with him due to his hoarding behaviours?

Surely if he has his other home he can live there even if while you need help overnight he stays at yours?

He just needs to move everything he's brought to your place back to his. And anything new he gets needs to be there too.

Your house needs to be a safe space with ZERO hoarding and no storage of anything that's his, for your child's sake.

If he's a decent man he'll understand that and still coparent.

Clearly he shouldn't have any attachment to bottle tops, bubble wrap and broken shoes! could you focus on these type of items that can easily be negotiated into the bin, after all if a bit of bubble wrap is needed it can easily be obtained for not a lot!

@tonyatotter he is attached and they can’t be easily negotiated into the bin. He reluctantly threw away the cup of can pulls. He didn’t want to as he invested a lot of time collecting them on the window sill.

the bubble wrap envelopes he says are handy for when you sell things. The shoes would be good garden shoes, despite already having a pair at mine.

Clearly he shouldn't have any attachment to bottle tops, bubble wrap and broken shoes! could you focus on these type of items that can easily be negotiated into the bin, after all if a bit of bubble wrap is needed it can easily be obtained for not a lot!

This is completely logical and reasonable thinking.

But it will not be an easy negotiation with a hoarder. Because they cannot apply logic and reason to their hoard.

They need intense, ongoing therapy in order to address their hoarding behaviours. No amount of sensible negotiation, no matter how logical or reasonable, will actually work.

It's like trying to appeal to an alcoholics reason when they're in the grips of their addiction. Would you think they would take on board someone saying 'come on, you don't need another drink so just stop at one'? They can't. They cannot apply logic and reason to their addiction without serious, ongoing professional support.

In other words there's a reason or excuse for him to keep all of his stuff.

@TheShellBeach it appears so. He thinks he’s totally normal and justified and so do I so we clash.

Are you willing to tell him that you love him but can't live with him due to his hoarding behaviours OP? That seems like the only workable solution to me.

Surely if he has his other home he can live there even if while you need help overnight he stays at yours?

He just needs to move everything he's brought to your place back to his. And anything new he gets needs to be there too.

Your house needs to be a safe space with ZERO hoarding and no storage of anything that's his, for your child's sake.

If he's a decent man he'll understand that and still coparent.

It's worth giving some thought to what would happen in the unlikely, but possible, event of you dying young. If he has PR, your baby would grow up in the hoard.

@monsteramunch ive approached the subject today and he seems genuinely sad. Addiction is horrible because either way he can loose something he loves because he does genuinely love us and he loves his stuff.

Great @Cherchezlafemme77 one daughter to an abuser and one to a hoarder, what a great mum I am.

A hoarder can only start to try and apply standard reason and logic to their hoard, when they have arrived at a point where their hoarding distresses them and they are trying to de-clutter it. Even then they have to wrestle with themselves and years of a different logic and reasoning.
Wanting to reduce the amount because you need or want to move, doesn't bring them to the point needed, and they will apply hoarders logic and reason to why things need to be kept, or not, as he is doing.

...but now that is real he can’t do it. I don't mean to be rude but I suspect it wasn't just his idea, but if it really was entirely his idea of wanting to move in, then the good news is he's just found out how serious his hoarding problem is, so should be amenable to the idea that his stuff has to be sorted and reduced at his, however you and he deal with the rest of the relationship and parenting. It doesn't have to be a drama.

But him moving out is a way that he can continue a relationship with you, so hopefully he's willing to do that.

Otherwise you're putting his hoarding above your own wellbeing and crucially that of your older child who would be pretty rapidly living in chaos. Or best case scenario, living under the same roof as a couple with simmering resentment on both sides as his hoarding will constantly be an ongoing issue if you try to live together.

Unfortunately it's the nature of addiction that it robs us of things. It's robbing him of the chance to live with you all together in one safe, clean and calm home.

I don't doubt he loves you and I don't doubt he's sad. But he isn't enough of those things to be proactively seeking help, because he doesn't really think it's as big a problem as it is. So he doesn't really think you're being reasonable.

If someone has an active addiction of any kind, they cannot be a fully reliable and dependable emotional partner because their primary focus is on maintaining that addiction.

Staying together but living apart feels like the only option that is fair on your older child, if you don't want to break up with him. Don't make her live with a hoarder. How it is now is the absolute best it's ever going to get. It will escalate and cause endless arguments

@Elleherd hes clearing to appease me because he says I’m moaning. I very much know he doesn’t want to. He wants it to come as is, he’s said many times in different ways. I’ve said he can live in his house and keep it but he’s admitted he wants to come to mine. That will only happen if the majority doesn’t come. I’ve no idea what he will choose!

None of this is your doing xx

You've had a really tough time over the last few years by the sounds of it OP and I hope you know people aren't (I hope) meaning to attack you, it's just they feel defensive of you and your children especially if they've got experience of being around addicts and specifically hoarders

@Onetwothree45 ‘hes clearing to appease me because he says I’m moaning’ which isn’t taking responsibility for it needing to be cleared, or recognizing his problem, is it?

‘He wants it to come as is, he’s said many times in different ways’ and I want to win the national lottery. His wants aren’t more important than the children’s needs, or yours.