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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Original poster

Mum can't afford to live

335 replies

Theamofm · 20/04/2023 20:56

My mum and dad split 3 years ago. Before mum had a great lifestyle and had no money worries. Dad covered it. Mum worked but was only pocket money really. Mum now lives alone and works long hours and a lot of travelling. She's early 60s and it's tiring her out. She's that tired at weekends she's not going out to meet anyone, and not only that she can't really afford it. She earns enough to survive basically. Tried universal credit and she can't get it. What help is out there? We could assist a bit if it was desperate but we dont have an endless pot that could go on forever. How do other people cope? What happens when she has to stop working? It really worries me. Thanks,

OP posts:
FrownedUpon · 21/04/2023 10:51

It’s hard, but if she didn’t save for a pension, how did she expect to live in retirement? This is why pensions are so important. Is she paying into a pension now? Something is better than nothing.

rattymol · 21/04/2023 10:52

It was normal to be a sahm of under fives as childcare vouchers did not exist. So unless you had family providing free childcare, anyone on a low wage could not afford to pay for childcare. Once kids started school women on a low wage often did part time work as again no childcare vouchers.

JocelynBurnell · 21/04/2023 10:58

Sadly, many women will find themselves in a similar situation to the OP's mum in the coming decade.

ThreeLocusts · 21/04/2023 11:02

Wow people are nasty on this thread.

Women end up being SAHMs for all sorts of reasons - cost of childcare being a major one - and it is perfectly reasonable for them to expect their children's father to 'fund their lifestyle' while they do.

I'm in a 'dual career couple' and I often notice that the traditional family model is simply more efficient. My DH and I sometimes duplicate domestic work and at other times we both forget about child-related stuff. If one parent is in charge of everything to do with kids, you get less of that.

It's a real flaw in the pension system that the hard work of childrearing doesn't count towards pensions entitlements. And for many people there's never much of a surplus to put into a pension. Have some compassion, people.

VickyEadieofThigh · 21/04/2023 11:02

crispsnutsandcake · 21/04/2023 08:38

Retirement flats (not a retirement 'home' as in care home or assisted living!) are for people over 55 or 60 usually so she is in the demographic. However, you might buy them for a reasonable price but the ongoing costs can add up - ground rent, maintenance fee etc - thousands a year. Park homes i.e. static caravans have a similar drawback and depreciate. If she already owns part of her HA property and pays rent on the other part she's probably in the best place.

Yes - I'm dubious that selling her current shared ownership property (which I'm assuming was bought on shared ownership because she didn't have enough capital to buy one outright) to buy or rent a retirment flat is going to be feasible OR leave her any better off than she is now.

HappiestPenguin · 21/04/2023 11:16

I think I would sit down and check her tax code is correct. Check her pay is correct. Check her bank statements for forgotten subscriptions etc. Then help her budget.
£10.42 x 40 x 52 = £21673 a year.

Yes it’s tight but £300 rent is pretty cheap.
Does she have debts that she can focus on clearing?

HappiestPenguin · 21/04/2023 11:17

I don’t think retirement homes will be any cheaper than £300 a month. Also she may get assistance with rent post retirement.

MedievalMadness · 21/04/2023 11:21

over 55 social housing is usually fairly easy to apply for and obtain and will be often a reasonable rent, for example under £100 per week

im in a HA flat next to a sheltered block which is part of our HA. The sheltered flats are nearly £800pm . That includes rent, service charges which includes 24/7 alarm, a daily phone call or visit. I’d love to apply for one as I have a degenerative illness but it’s too expensive. Even the less expensive sheltered blocks are at least £700 pm. I’m in the north of the country too. The service charges can be a lot.

Ladybug14 · 21/04/2023 11:27

HappiestPenguin · 21/04/2023 11:16

I think I would sit down and check her tax code is correct. Check her pay is correct. Check her bank statements for forgotten subscriptions etc. Then help her budget.
£10.42 x 40 x 52 = £21673 a year.

Yes it’s tight but £300 rent is pretty cheap.
Does she have debts that she can focus on clearing?

This

Im hopefully not being rude when I say that if she was always a 'live for today' person, perhaps her budgeting skills aren't great. Maybe it's best to sort out her budgeting before believing that she really is so short of money

maranella · 21/04/2023 11:31

It's a real flaw in the pension system that the hard work of child-rearing doesn't count towards pensions entitlements.

Actually it does - as long as you've worked for a certain amount of time first. I've been a SAHM for the past 15 years and am on track to get a full UK state pension. But you have to keep an eye on your state pension entitlement, pay for any additional years, and also bear in mind the necessity for most people to have a private pension in addition. Unless you have very low living costs (mortgage paid off, council housing or a high level of housing benefit), it would be really hard to live on just the basic state pension in retirement.

This thread is definitely a cautionary tale for anyone in the 'live for today' mindset that is ignoring the reality of poverty in old age.

maranella · 21/04/2023 11:32

And the OP's DM is only early 60s, which is not exactly old age either!

AgeofCreation528 · 21/04/2023 11:37

https://www.gov.uk/check-state-pension

Suggests your DM checks here to see the age of her state retirement & how much she expects to receive

I expect her state retirement age will be 66 or 67 if she lives in UK

Check your State Pension forecast

Find out how much State Pension you could get (your forecast), when you could get it and how you could increase it

https://www.gov.uk/check-state-pension

StressedSandwich · 21/04/2023 11:39

Whichnumbers · 21/04/2023 06:40

I may also look at retirement homes with her.

a retirement home is often very expensive £1000 per week

over 55 social housing is usually fairly easy to apply for and obtain and will be often a reasonable rent, for example under £100 per week

My grandparents are in over 55 housing and still paying over 600pcm. Not always cheaper.

KnickerlessParsons · 21/04/2023 11:39

Jeez - she's early 60s, she's not in her dotage! At that age she shouldn't be so tired that she can't hold down a full time job for heaven's sake.

If she really is too tired to do anything at the weekend, she should seek medical help - it's not normal, even in your 60s.

And I agree with other posters - what is she spending her money on? Even on £10 per hour she'd be earning about £14,000 per month, and the first £12k-ish of that isn't taxed.

QueenCoconut · 21/04/2023 11:42

I agree with this. There is nothing nasty about pointing out the harsh reality to other people.
I wonder how many SAHM or in fact single mums relying on benefits and child support have no plan B for how to support themselves (to a decent standard) once the support ends. But whenever someone points it out on here, they get accused of being nasty or jealous.

KnickerlessParsons · 21/04/2023 11:52

£1400 per month, obvs :), not £14,000 pm

Tinysoxx · 21/04/2023 11:53

On the other hand she could have lived on an absolute pittance and not enjoyed herself during her life then get dementia and it be taken all away in care home fees.

QueenCoconut · 21/04/2023 11:53

chemicalworld · 21/04/2023 09:57

to those users stating that they were bought up never to rely on anyone else, well - aren't you lucky you had someone telling you that?

Not everyone does. My mum bought me up not to worry about money as she didn't understand it at all and relied completely on my father. She then repeated the same patterns with my step dad.

I grew up vowing to never be like her in that regard but I can completely understand how someone of her generation could end up in this situation once a marriage has broken down.

That’s why it is so important to talk about it now and prevent current and future generations from making the same financial mistakes. Even if it means some harsh words and challenging the SAHM approach. We owe it to other women to promote financial independence but it’s difficult to achieve when people who challenge lifestyle choices reliant on husband/ ex husband/ government are labelled nasty or harsh. There is no nice way to say get up your a.. and go to work to support yourself because the current money flow my dry up at any point.

beguilingeyes · 21/04/2023 12:03

This will be my in-laws. They're both younger than me...mid to late 40s and neither of them has a pension. They live pretty extravagant lifestyles and don't seem that bothered.

JoanThursday1972 · 21/04/2023 12:05

RedRosie · 20/04/2023 22:11

Sorry to hear this. My parents are much older (80s, so can't work) and quite poor. They live in a HA property, for which I'm grateful. They get pension credit and have tiny savings but are very proud so won't accept direct monetary help from me. I do surprise online shops for them and "treats" like M&S/Sainsbury's vouchers and meals out, which they will accept but I can afford this. I get upset when people snipe at well off pensioners... So many worked all their lives and aren't well off.

Your mum is still working, so as PPs have said, are you able to sit down and do a detailed budget with her? When she stops working at retirement age, she will be entitled to some help. But I know it's hard to think of them struggling.

This puts into context the Jeremy Vine discussion that I posted about last week that criticised 'selfish boomers' etc.

perfectcolourfound · 21/04/2023 12:06

anonymousxoxo · 21/04/2023 07:28

Imo she caused this on herself. She worked for pocket money and mainly was a SAHM. Now, expects government to fund her life in her old age.

This is one of the main reasons why people on here keep telling woman NOT to be a SAHM, work full time at the very least part time (3-4 days) so you can grow salary and have a pension in future.

Men prioritise their pension, careers and have good life when they reach pension age.

I come from a working class immigrant family, I’ve seen countless women shafted due to poor education and English knowledge.

This is also one of the main reasons why I’ll never be a SAHM, I’d rather die. Plus, these days people can wfh especially in office roles - no excuse now. I wfh 4 days a week, sometime whole week. It’s very flexible.

Your final paragraph seems to suggest that you can WFH and look after children at the same time, which you clearly can't do (not if you are doing your full work hours and proper parenting).

sashh · 21/04/2023 12:07

Iwasafool · 21/04/2023 08:26

I think jobs with a bar on married women are going back quite a long way, not sure if it would apply to a woman of 60. Lots of jobs that did require you to stop working ended that policy in the 40s, I think one of the last was the Foreign office in the early 70s.

Show quote history

Oh it was much later than that. Even after it became illegal it still happened, I remember in the 1980s a company I knew off had a no mothers unofficial policy, they would basically pay women off to not return after maternity leave.

Don't forget the sex discrimination act only came in 1975, and even then it didn't apply to everyone / every thing.

I went to a girls' school and there were subjects that just were not taught.

Take a look at some of Barclays adverts, the one from the late 60s says after 5 years you will get a 'marriage gratuity' ie they will sack you but give you some money.

https://www.ecnmy.org/engage/8-barclaycard-ads-for-women-from-the-60s-and-70s/

8 ridiculous Barclaycard ads for women from the 60s and 70s

"For ambitious, young men... and there's scope for girls as well."

https://www.ecnmy.org/engage/8-barclaycard-ads-for-women-from-the-60s-and-70s

JoanThursday1972 · 21/04/2023 12:11

sashh · 21/04/2023 12:07

Oh it was much later than that. Even after it became illegal it still happened, I remember in the 1980s a company I knew off had a no mothers unofficial policy, they would basically pay women off to not return after maternity leave.

Don't forget the sex discrimination act only came in 1975, and even then it didn't apply to everyone / every thing.

I went to a girls' school and there were subjects that just were not taught.

Take a look at some of Barclays adverts, the one from the late 60s says after 5 years you will get a 'marriage gratuity' ie they will sack you but give you some money.

https://www.ecnmy.org/engage/8-barclaycard-ads-for-women-from-the-60s-and-70s/

Show quote history

I was just to come on here and talk about this and then saw your post. My mother worked for Barclays where she met my dad. They were sexist right up until when I was born. They didn't have to leave jobs when they got married but had to wear dresses or skirts, badges with marital status on and answer the phone as Mrs Thursday speaking not their first name ie marital status was given all the time and in your face.

I do help her apply for jobs but because of age and limited skill set it's hard for her.

At my place of work two women have been appointed to higher level administrative roles one is almost 64 and the other 68 and a half and they are brilliant at their job. Limited skill set isn't taken into account here but age should not be a factor even if it is. * *

rose69 · 21/04/2023 12:14

Retirement homes may have large service charges and be difficult to sell. Check cost of
Living pages on local council website as may be help available there. Also some local charities sometimes do hardship grants.

VincentVaguer · 21/04/2023 12:24

Another one not understanding where her money is going if she's earning NMW.

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