Married to someone with Asperger's/ASD: support thread 8

[Daftasabroom]

New thread.

This thread is for partners seeking to understand the dynamics of mixed NT/ND partnerships. It is a support thread, and a safe space to have a bit of a rant. Avoid sweeping generalisations if possible, try and keep it specific to you and your partner. (ASD partners welcome to lurk or pop in, but please don't argue with other posters and tell them they are wrong)

Link to previous thread

Slightly off topic but @MyVisionsComeFromSoup's ex DH seemingly struggling to work out why he's not finding someone to slot straight into the "wife box" reminds me of The Rosie Project by Graeme Simsion. Does anyone else recognise Don in their lives or relate to Rosie? Definitely seemed familiar here.

I'd recommend it if you haven't read it

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/16181775-the-rosie-project

I remember reading it. It was very good and funny for what I can remember.

I hated that book - the male character had insight and made an effort to accommodate Rosie.

I felt cheated. My DH used me as a get-a-wife-project, but once the task was completed that was the end of that.

hard to tell if that is ASD symptom or just arse.

Should have added, so, I was jealous of the way the book unfolded. It wasn’t like how things unfolded in my life and so I seethed about that

“I'd married someone more normal”

FFS autistic people are normal. Appalling ableism.

Is it, Stop?

or is it lived experience of some people who recognise challenges in others lives?

maybe you just don’t share our experiences?

maybe you’d be happier muting the thread if you find us “appalling”?

“Lived experience” does not entitle anyone to be racist or sexist or homophobic therefore i fail to see why it entitles one to be ableist.

it is ableist to suggest autistic people are not normal.

So I will continue to challenge this narrative when I see it otherwise the daily prejudice and misunderstanding we face will continue and I do not want that for my children.

Only 1% of the population has autism. By definition 1% is therefore not the norm. Similarly only 3-5% of the population has ADHD - I'm one of that number. We're neurodivergent rather than neurotypical. Those differences are (for example) why autism can be classed as a disability for the purposes of reasonable adjustments, benefits like PIP etc. If it was the norm then there would be no need for reasonable adjustments.

'People with ASD often have problems with social communication and interaction, and restricted or repetitive behaviors or interests' - that's from the CDC. I assume that's the context the poster is referencing because she's outlining the impact on her life. I understand why you're not keen on the wording around 'more normal' but truthfully most of us are on this thread because there are fundamental differences between the marriages we thought we were going to have and what we actually got - often as a direct result of the problems mentioned above by CDC - with social communication and interaction.

I recognise some of the issues mentioned above. Once you're married there's an expectation that you'll do at least some socialising as a couple with other couples. My DH struggles with this which by definition limits my social life unless I want to socialise alone a lot. Which isn't the marriage I thought I was going to have so I understand why the poster used the word 'normal'. It's not a word I would have used but that's really because in many ways I recognise that I'm not 'normal' myself according to patriarchal ideas about what women 'should' be good at. Cleaning ... organising... remembering birthday cards...

@StopHateAgainstAutisticPeople I am not married to your children.

I do not hate people with autism. It is a fact, however, that my husband’s neurodivergence causes issues in our marriage which would not exist if we did not have this particular dynamic to manage in our intimate relationship - a relationship which has absolutely nothing to do with you or your kids.

if you think you can come onto our support thread (which is not actually for mothers of children) and stamp your feet and tell us we are hateful in order to get us to stop talking about the issues ND has brought into our relationships then I suspect you will get tired and slope off long before I run out of “fuck me, this marriage is fucking hard fucking work”

Crack on, though, if you really have nothing better to do with your time.

@SquirrelSoShiny

ok so applying your logic means that you would describe homosexuality as abnormal?
because I would say it’s perfectly normal. Just like autism.

@stealtheatingtunnocks all I’m pointing out is that it is ableist to describe autistic people as not “normal”. You can seek all the support you want - but that doesn’t mean you can do it using derogatory expressions.

and I’m certainly not going to seek support here regarding my children! I want them to understand they are perfectly normal.

Ok, I am going to wade in.
I have some issues with the word Normal.

Yes it could mean the majority of people. That’s part of the definition of normal.

But Normal has also taken other connotations. Normal as in like everyone else, as in good. Whereas abnormal is different and not good.
So being in a wheelchair, like I am, isn’t normal. Nor is being disabled. Etc… And the connotation of ‘normal’ makes anyone that isn’t normal lesser than. And yes I agree with @StopHateAgainstAutisticPeople (🫣🫣🫣) that it is ableist BECAUSE of those connotations.
I mean, have you seen the latest Telegraph article on disabled and benefits? That’s what ‘not being normal’ can mean.

So whilst I fully agree that living with someone who is ND/ASD can have it’s specific struggles, that we’ve all noticed on this thread, I think avoiding the word normal is a good idea.

Fwiw there is a whole lot of history around ‘normalcy’. How and why it was created and how it was originally linked to eugenic. It’s nowhere near a neutral word and hasn’t been for a long time.

@SpecialMangeTout

thank you 💐

I'm ND myself. I don't use words like 'abnormal' - YOU are the person using that word. I do however recognise that I'm not 'the norm'. That's just a statement of statistical fact.

I'm not big on policing other people's language in general ESPECIALLY when they are talking about their own life. They are talking about their marriage to someone with social and communication issues. Of course this will impact their relationship. Are you saying gay people have social and communication issues as part of being gay? That would be amazingly homophobic. But social and communication issues are literally in the diagnostic framework of autism. So quit with the tiresome false teaming. It's bs and you know it.

I appreciate you have a couple of drums you really like to bang to drown out the rest of the orchestra but maybe you could try listening to the tune being played, rather than the one you think is being played or should be played.

We're the people who married autistic partners in the first place. And we're still with them, trying to make things work, often against our own best interests. And you're here to give us a telling off for it?! That seems somewhat self-defeating.

@StopHateAgainstAutisticPeople I've been thinking about this and it would probably make a very interesting philosophy essay.

I think it's one of the vagaries of the English language that one word can have so many different meanings depending on the context and intent of the message being communicated.

Maybe "normal" is what we expect and "different" is what we invariably get. Perhaps it's normal to be different, and different to be normal.

If everyone is normal, how can anyone be different?

Fundamentally you've taken the poster out of context and built a straw man out it.

@SpecialMangeTout I think we are in agreement on the word thing in general but to be honest particular posters have their own agenda which is about shutting down all discussion of the issues in our relationships.

I find it a bit strange. Because the pattern posters find on these threads is so consistent, you would almost think we were married to people with communication and social issues.

Oh, wait. We are!

I'd also point out that exceptional is also an antonym of normal.

That’s a really good point!

Yes there's a bit of a pattern there. Taking things out of context to build a straw man. Shutting down discussions about how our married lives are compared to our expectations and the common patterns many of us observe in our marriages with ASD partners.

But hush now Daft. Don't be talking about our needs on our own support thread! We must lie down on the altar and be quietly sacrificed so our ASD partners won't be inconvenienced by all the noise and fuss!

And yet funnily enough we're the people who fell in love with our ASD partners in the first place, recognising many wonderful qualities in them that others overlooked. Maybe if the differences were more openly discussed we would have been able to make informed choices and find it easier to work on healthy communication.

Exactly, I am being told off by a poster who does not have the issues this thread exists for, for saying that people with autism are not normal. Whcih is not something I said.

i am intolerant of this sort of interruption on our lovely place of support because, TBH, I have more than enough dogmatism, misunderstanding and misplaced outrage at home.

its wearing.

@ those defending ableism

I simply said that inferring autistic people are not normal is ableist, which it is. Gay people are in the minority but are normal. It is only the intolerant and prejudiced who would say they are not normal and such people would correctly be defined as homophobic.

and there is nothing out of context, there is no straw man or misplaced outrage. This was the original statement:

”I feel like if I'd married someone more normal I would have had a much bigger weekend social life”

I wish I’d married……

• someone more typical? ✅
• someone more conventional? ✅
• someone more likely to conform to neurotypically-defined social rules? ✅

All fine!

Someone more normal - not fine! ❌

Yes I feel your pain!

I've been quiet on this thread recently because husband and I are in one of our lulls - the calms before the storm. Each time it gives me a flare of hope which is inevitably extinguished but each time I persist in living in hope.

Generally what happens is I realise that I have been pleasing and appeasing him more than usual and at some point I think, nope, enough now.

We had a classic conversation earlier and when I see our thread visitor banging on it's so wearily familiar, just like it is with husband. Here's today's example.

Me: I'm so tired after doing this thing yesterday.

DH: Don't worry! I'm going to help you!

Me: Oh great, thanks. I just need you to do X.

DH: I'm not going to do that. I'm going to do A, B, C, D and E! awaits praise

Me: But I don't need you to do that, just do X.

DH: No because I'm going to help you.

Me: I'm literally telling you exactly what I need you to do to help me. If you want to help me do X please.

DH: Well I'm not doing that. I'm trying to help you. You don't want me to help you.

Me: I do you're just not listening to me. I need you to do X. That is how you can help me. A, B, C, D and E won't help me.

DH: Wanders off looking upset at my ingratitude for not letting him do completely unhelpful things instead of the one thing he actually could do that will help

It's that fucking rigidity that I can't cope with anymore. It's like he has a blueprint in his head which can't be deviated from. I want him to move a wardrobe from one room to another on the ground floor of the house. He wants to move it to the garage. I'm disabled. I can't go into the garage so what is the fucking point of putting it there? I can't get my belongings in and out of it there.

But no. He has a plan and the plan must be followed, even if it's a Baldrick level cunning plan.

How many versions of this conversation have there been in the last nearly 20 years of my life?
I mean fuck me. How many of these conversations have there been? Gradually eroding me like water torture.

I hear you on that. My partner only wants to help me in ways he wants to help me as well, when I specifically say exactly what WOULD help me. I’ve just stopped asking for and expecting the kind of support i need. I’m also disabled, its very frustrating, my life would be so much better and easier with little helping hands for certain tasks that would make a real difference.