Amazing loving partner - he lied to me big time

[LaPL]

I am almost divorced, officially separated for 3 years. I have a 6 years old child. My ex husband was mentally and emotionally abusive, and even if we were living a comfortable life financially, we had our own home, vacations every year etc, my life and my mental health was hell. I got out and I got better.

A little more than a year and a half ago, I met my boyfriend and it was a beautiful love story up until last week.

Context, 4 years older than me, never been married, no kids, live alone in an apartment, well educated and decent job, no big responsibilities. He has a heart of gold, incredibly supportive, loving towards me and my child, trustworthy, loves his family and he is the guy I go to for advice. Everyone do. I love him, he's been nothing but amazing to me - we barely fight and communication is excellent. My child is very attached to him. We started talking about moving in together (I currently rent a small apartment, after the separation I had to sell my house), I always told him I wanted to go back to home ownership, but the city I live in is outrageously expensive and I need a partner to afford a family home. He ALWAYS said that buying a house was his plan too, that we will have the life we want and we deserve, that he wanted to move with me, he wanted to marry, he just needed a bit of time to think it through.

We talked so many times about houses we liked, planned our imaginary wedding (even fell in love with a venue!!) talking about how many guests we would like to invite, talk about vacations and everything in between... you get the picture. I was finally feeling so fortunate.

Well... last week he came to me with this information: I have no money, I have zero savings, I live paycheck to paycheck, I cannot give you what you want, a house, a ring, a wedding and... I possibly need to declare bankruptcy because I have at least six figures credit card debts, my credit score is so bad, I am ready for you to kick me out of your life because I lied to you all this time as I was in denial.

I am shocked and I am still processing. My first reaction was to try to understand better and now I told him I want to help him get out of this hole. Not helping by giving him money, but by moving in with me so we pay one rent and we can share expenses, so he can paying off creditors and start saving a bit. I know this is the right thing to do, but I feel so betrayed and shocked and bitter and honestly so so scared for my financial future and for the wellbeing of my child. What if he does that again? He said he hasn't accumulated any more debts in the last two years and used a "protected" credit card responsibly, but the previous years debts are still there. I can't buy anything with him because his credit score is soooo bad it will take 5/6 years to recover.

What would you do?

Thank you.

I've just been in a very similar situation, except the amount of the debt is significantly less. I understand your grief for the person you thought you were dating, who you thought was being honest, only to find that you have been lied to for so many months. My relationship is a similar length too.
I hope you'll find some peace of mind OP, that is all I wish for you - however that arrives. We all deserve to feel relaxed and secure in our relationships, feeling that our partner is above board with us and not hiding stuff. I hope you can get that feeling in the future, whether it's with this man or someone else.
Some individual therapy may help you to work through your feelings around this.

@Gablonz I am not moving in with him. I won't. I had time to think about it and I agree it is not the right thing to do, and not only because of his financial situation, but because the trust is so broken that I would not be able to leave him alone in a house where all my things are as well.
Maybe, a big maybe, I'll date him a little longer, just to see if truly he starts sorting things out, this is what I mean now when I say "help" him, just moral support. But even dating will look much different.
And for two reasons: I have feelings for him, I don't feel like walking away just yet, knowing he is in so much trouble.
Reason two, I am NOT involved financially with him, so I risk nothing.
When I feel stronger, when I am hurting less, when I see he is making better choices, I will probably leave him, yes, because I don't believe I could trust him ever again.

@ZeppelinTits are you guys still together?
And yes, I am starting individual counselling next week. Thankfully, paid for by my employer, I need all the support I can get. I am heartbroken.

We are still together OP although have been on/off a few times and are about to start couples counselling. I hope your therapy helps you. Keep us updated with how you get on. I completely understand being heartbroken - it's such a normal, reasonable response to all this. Take care.

@ZeppelinTits I want to ask, I know you said their debts are significantly less, but is your partner doing something about it? I know every story is different, but did you have people telling you to leave your partner and run because of their debts? Or because they lied?

Maybe at this point, since I stopped crying every hour, I am just waiting to clear my head and see where that takes me. He's showing remorse and he's committed to improve his situation. Maybe I am just curious to see if that is really the case, you know, from a distance. I am not trying to save him, I am not moving in with him.

@WisherWood you said you were completely up front with your partner. Good for you, honestly.

However, I can understand the desire to "give yourself a chance" - when you know part of your past is pretty dark, you don't want to share that at the very beginning. You know you are a good person and you know you are capable and deserving of love. However, yes, the lies and the faking where uncalled for in my case. He deliberately wanted me to see him as wealthy.

This is the crux of it OP.

Nobody reasonable could expect him to reveal all about the extent of his financial fuckwittery immediately.

But to deliberately lead you to believe that he was fully solvent, fully capable of matching your lifestyle, & to persistently daydream with you about marriage & buying a family home ... that's not a mistake, it's a huge, huge character flaw.

It's even harder for you to accept, because your good times were so good. Because when he was not actively lying & deceiving, you admired his good points. But he was living a double life - crippled with eye-watering debt, but carrying on as if he could afford to match you & make a dream come true that he knew damn well he did not have the means to achieve.

It's so cruel & disprespectful.

I agree 100% with what you just said. He admitted what he did was cruel.
The good times were so good, and not the dinners out and the vacations, the good time at home on the couch, talking about everything, hugging and feeling safe.
It's not even his financial situation that scares me at this point, it's the crazy way he deals with his problems - it's the complete denial to the point he created a reality for himself and fed that to me.

I think it is a bit of a time will tell kind of situation OP. Ultimately, someone can be full of genuine remorse but if they continue to fuck up, even the most patient and in-love person will reach their limits.

I can't predict the future but overwhelmingly, the thing that is challenging is the lies, not what the lies were about. The problem with lies of course, is that it makes you suspect other lies, and it makes you question the validity of what has been said. Did they mean it when they said this? What about this? Was it all BS? If they lied, will they lie again? Will I ever be able to trust someone who has lied? These are the questions you will find yourself asking, and no amount of strangers of friends on the Internet or even relationship counsellors can tell you the answers to what you should do, because the answers are inside your heart, yet to be uncovered. All you can do is create an environment, inwardly, in your own mind where your heart feels safe to speak. And then listen and take action. The problem is actually silencing everything else in order to hear that small still voice within. That's tough. I hope things go well for you in the future. Although you sound like you're in shock right now, you sound like you've got your heard screwed on right and I think you'll ultimately be fine, once this shock of this abates a bit. Good luck.

He admitted what he did was cruel.
The good times were so good, and not the dinners out and the vacations, the good time at home on the couch, talking about everything, hugging and feeling safe.
It's not even his financial situation that scares me at this point, it's the crazy way he deals with his problems - it's the complete denial to the point he created a reality for himself and fed that to me.

Oh OP

Please do not fall into the trap of believing that his confession of guilt & acceptance of his cruelty makes any of this ok.

You are so right - he leads the life of a fantasist.
PP are concerned that you will be emotionally played, & dragged into that.

He’s not in denial though he knows he has debts, he simply lied to you that’s all.@

OP did your BF by any chance hang out with friends who all had a lot of money, and because he earns well thought he could keep up with them, but then the heavy interest on his borrowing spiralled out of control?

My sister used to work for a successful musician/actor who started hanging out with people at the top of their game (Noel Gallagher, Kate Moss for example). They were always flying off to LA or St Tropez at the drop of a hat and he got into crippling debt trying to keep up, thinking that his next project would just pay things off, but it wasn't enough. He's still paying it back but thankfully is still earning well, but not on the scale that he was, having to take on some very uncool 'gigs' in the process.

That is sociopathic behavior. It's not normal and it's not curable.
These people lie so easily and naturally.

@McSlowburn - well apparently his younger brother is definitely wealthier, and his father also had a very good career and now a good retirement income.
I am not sure how it got so out of control.
I can assure you that credit cards interest rates are enormous and it is very very easy finding yourself struggling to keep up with payments.
I am sure that at least half of his debts are interests only.

What it worries the most is his credit score: he won't be able to get a loan, a mortgage, a new car or even rent another apartment for a very long time and that definitely would impact me too.

Just discovered an ancient old favourite of mine has long since closed down, the Dealing With Debt boards over at Motley Fool!

OP, I wanted you to see what people who are responsibly tackling their debt look and sound like. Your man is not doing any of it. He is still in denial, still feels entitled to live the high life while others pick up the tab.

First an itemised list of everything he owes, with interest rates and due dates.

Complete acknowledgement that he owes this money, that he took it, that he spent it, and that is his responsibility to repay it, IN FULL.

HE FAILS THIS FIRST STEP. He is welching on his debts. He wants to be bailed out.

A clear plan to repay, covering all minimums, then prioritising clearing highest interest rates first.

People in debt ARE recommended to keep a TOKEN emergency fund, usually £500, so let's say $1000 CAD. The rest of his 'emergency cash' goes straight to clearing the highest interest debts. That was easy. Now he has more of his monthly income free to pay the remaining debts. The Snowball effect kicks in.

Now what is this 'cash for taxes'? Is it in cash because he is hiding it? Pay the taxes or clear some more debt.

Now, income. Can he increase his hours? Take a second job instead of gadding around conning women in the evenings and weekends? More income means faster debt repayment.

Can he raise any other money? Is he sitting on get-rich-easy investments like bullion or crypto that he could liquidate and direct to debt repayment? Does he drive a flashy car or motorbike that he could sell, and either cycle or replace with an old banger for a few years? Does he have lots of electronics and boys toys? He should sell them all, save one laptop and one phone. That's a lot of money freed up to pay off his debts.

I'd say his plan to share with a lodger is the right idea - except I reckon he's intending to spend lots of time at yours, gaining all the benefits of a family home with none of the expenses or responsibilities. Not good.

Now, expenditure. Has he cut his outgoings to the bone, apart from rent, utilities and basic food? He should have. Every time he's spent anything on a frippery or a luxury he's been spending money that he didn't have, that he already owed to someone else, that he has effectively stolen from others.

People who are responsibly tackling long-term debt repayment ARE recommended to allocate some money for fun and entertainment, but it is a small token amount, say a streaming service on offer, or a takeaway meal and bottle of wine once a month, or a week in an old caravan with the kids. IT IS NOT a never-ending carnival of eating out and transatlantic holidays.

Your man is not doing any of this. He is still in denial, still feels entitled to live the high life while others pick up the tab.

I agree 100% with what you just said. He admitted what he did was cruel.
The good times were so good, and not the dinners out and the vacations, the good time at home on the couch, talking about everything, hugging and feeling safe
It's not even his financial situation that scares me at this point, it's the crazy way he deals with his problems - it's the complete denial to the point he created a reality for himself and fed that to me

It’s not denial , it’s just lies. He is lying to you and YOU are the one in denial, not him. He knows fact from fantasy whereas you are still living in fantasy land.

He has lied to you so well and for so long that now you are lying to yourself, glossing over inconvenient facts and discarding awkward pieces of the jigsaw that don’t fit the false picture that he has created.

He has well and truly conned you OP. It’s so sad that you can see this but you still want to stay with him and transform him into the man you thought he was by the power of your love.

He is over 40 years old, he’s not going to change. This is not a mistake, it’s his character , it’s who he is.

It’s not a one off “ social lie” that you might say when you first meet someone , to avoid any awkward questions until you get to know them better. eg . saying you quit your last job when you were made redundant or that your cousin died in an accident when it was a drug overdose.

It’s a complete web of lies that he used to draw you in, a fake future that he sold you. He’s not a poor tortured soul, he’s a conman. Lying and deceit are who he is, like the words run through a stick of rock.

The “ talking about your future and feeling safe “ wasn’t safe at all, because it was all lies. And you never once suspected, did you, because he lies as easily as he breathes.

You talk about a time in the future when you hope he will have regained your trust. That will never happen, because he will never stop lying to you. Each time the truth is inconvenient / awkward / embarrassing/ shameful / triggering / whatever buzz word you like - he will default to lies.

You will never be able to trust him. And that lack of trust will in time destroy your love for him and probably your mental health. You will burn yourself out trying to make him into the man you want him to be, while he goes on deceiving you in big and small ways.

It will never stop because this is who he is.

Op, you were quite offended when I said he your trip was something he couldn’t afford.

You compared his debt to mortgage and initiated ‘we can afford the holiday’. When I challenged why it’s not like a mortgage and the fact that you can afford it, but he can’t, and it shows his behaviour hasn’t changed at all you skipped over it. Maybe you didn’t see it.

But people are trying to show you that he hasn’t actually changed, he isn’t taking the steps and I don’t think you are ready to face it. That’s where the danger is. That he hasn’t changed and you think he has.

Exactly what @Stravaig said.

Op what's off is that a normal person doesn't continue living the high life whilst in debt. If he had changed, he would be keeping a small sum back for rent and bills and everything else would go towards paying off the debt.

Not only has he shown you he hasn't changed, uts also a really sociopathic move to keep on spending unnecessarily when you're in massive amounts of debt. They can do that shit, because it literally doesn't bother them. They don't have the same fear response we do. And are only interested in immediate gratification.

That's why it's really worrisome. Because its like you're trying to justify it as 'oh well, I'd pay it off if it were me. But maybe he doesn't want to right now and people can do things differently' sorta way. No, regarding debt, psychopaths do things differently.

And we can't claim deep denial because even though he's now came clean to you, he's still planning a trip to Europe! That's not normal. That's someone who is consumed with self gratification over personal responsibility. And seen as he is not 6 years old, I can only assume some sort of personality disorder.

That’s where the danger is. That he hasn’t changed and you think he has.

I mean this kindly & gently OP - @Tomkirkman's summary is spot-on.
I know you are hurt, & likely still reeling in disbelief & shock - but please pay attention to it.

1000% this
Reread this 100 times as it is spot on.

@NumberTheory i can definitely take a few steps back and just date him. As I said, he’s great with my son and his behaviour (a part of the lying) is sweet and respectful.

however, just dating him meaning I have to put my goals aside for at least 5 to 7 years, we won’t be able to afford life the way I know it, because now I feel I have to save even more to get a house on my own and he needs to pay off his debts and that’s a big part of his paycheque. In the meantime, he will have a roommate, so we will be always at my place, eating my food and using my electricity - and you see where I’m going with this? I’m resentful already.
even in a relationship, I feel alone to face the world out there because I can’t plan to tie myself to this man. Not even living together and help each other out.

It’s only been 18 months though. You were fine before, you’ll be fine again.

I don’t think you really can take a step back with relationships. Once you’ve got to a certain point, you either keep going forwards or it’s over.

I’m certainly not advocating for you to stick with him. But just a few short days ago when you started this thread you were all about moving him in with you and your DD and defending him against those telling you to run for the hills. I was pointing out you could protect yourself and your DD wi though dumping him. But dumping him is a perfectly fine option!

What you’re saying here though does worry me a bit. You have a dream - a semi-articulated pln - to be buying a house in the next few years that relies on you finding and moving in with a romantic partner. I know it’s hard to make the money needed to get on the property ladder on your own, especially with a kid, but having your focus be on that is bad for you in a lot of ways. It makes you vulnerable to exactly what this guy did to you. And it makes your DD vulnerable too. I think it’s a good thing to be pragmatic about romantic partners you intend to make long term plans with but to have those plans drive your romantic partnerships, especially when you have a child that they will have to take on, is a bit of a red flag for poor decision making.

Make plans that don’t rely on you finding Mr Right. There may not be one out there.

I think there is some misunderstanding here. I left my abusive relationship, I left my own house and I've been renting for the past 3 years. It's not that I was going into the dating scene again ONLY to find a partner wealthy enough for him to buy a house with me. I could have stayed with my ex if I wanted a house badly enough.

But, I don't know if it's me having a distorted vision of reality, when two people fall in love and everything is going well, they move in together, maybe they get married, and most of the time, they might be able to combine they forces to buy a property together and live there, building their life (and equity).
When I met him, I didn't have this in mind. I had in mind to find a good man and fall in love and possibly having a family again. And I did! Everything has been wonderful up until now.
I am not sure what is the poor decision making here.

Also, speaking about red flags. I had NONE with him. The one and only red flag was when he said he needed "to think" about us moving in together, that's when I started thinking something was off.

But everything else, I can assure you (and I hate saying this), I've been a victim here. He has been nothing but wonderful to me - and then he dropped the bomb.
My family and friends are as shocked as I am about this, because they absolutely LOVED him from every angle. That's why I still have that side of me telling "what if" - otherwise I would have left already.

I wasn't fine before. I hated being single, the pandemic has been particularly hard and I felt incredibly alone. I have no family in Canada and the majority of my friends are either back in my country or moved away during the pandemic. I can't move anywhere because I share custody of my child and I felt stuck and unhappy. I wanted to find a partner - because I believe things are easier when you have the love and the support of another person going through life. That's why people get together. I was ok on my own, but definitely not happy to be single, especially during a time I was forced to be home, alone (or with my child). Meeting and getting to know him was amazing, we were amazing together, so that's why it hurts so much this betrayal.