Amazing loving partner - he lied to me big time

[LaPL]

I am almost divorced, officially separated for 3 years. I have a 6 years old child. My ex husband was mentally and emotionally abusive, and even if we were living a comfortable life financially, we had our own home, vacations every year etc, my life and my mental health was hell. I got out and I got better.

A little more than a year and a half ago, I met my boyfriend and it was a beautiful love story up until last week.

Context, 4 years older than me, never been married, no kids, live alone in an apartment, well educated and decent job, no big responsibilities. He has a heart of gold, incredibly supportive, loving towards me and my child, trustworthy, loves his family and he is the guy I go to for advice. Everyone do. I love him, he's been nothing but amazing to me - we barely fight and communication is excellent. My child is very attached to him. We started talking about moving in together (I currently rent a small apartment, after the separation I had to sell my house), I always told him I wanted to go back to home ownership, but the city I live in is outrageously expensive and I need a partner to afford a family home. He ALWAYS said that buying a house was his plan too, that we will have the life we want and we deserve, that he wanted to move with me, he wanted to marry, he just needed a bit of time to think it through.

We talked so many times about houses we liked, planned our imaginary wedding (even fell in love with a venue!!) talking about how many guests we would like to invite, talk about vacations and everything in between... you get the picture. I was finally feeling so fortunate.

Well... last week he came to me with this information: I have no money, I have zero savings, I live paycheck to paycheck, I cannot give you what you want, a house, a ring, a wedding and... I possibly need to declare bankruptcy because I have at least six figures credit card debts, my credit score is so bad, I am ready for you to kick me out of your life because I lied to you all this time as I was in denial.

I am shocked and I am still processing. My first reaction was to try to understand better and now I told him I want to help him get out of this hole. Not helping by giving him money, but by moving in with me so we pay one rent and we can share expenses, so he can paying off creditors and start saving a bit. I know this is the right thing to do, but I feel so betrayed and shocked and bitter and honestly so so scared for my financial future and for the wellbeing of my child. What if he does that again? He said he hasn't accumulated any more debts in the last two years and used a "protected" credit card responsibly, but the previous years debts are still there. I can't buy anything with him because his credit score is soooo bad it will take 5/6 years to recover.

What would you do?

Thank you.

OP i dont understand how you think him moving in with you is at any point a good idea? even as "flat mates" situation. insaine idea.

Just dump and run. He will be years paying this off and then you will never trust him

Have you heard of Transactional Analysis, @LaPL? It's an established element of psychoanalysis. As it's quite old now, it's undergone many mutations & refinements, but I like to go back to its creator's descriptions whenever I'm in an interpersonal situation that makes me feel odd.

For what it's worth, I think you and your boyfriend are both playing in Child mode. Here are some of Eric Berne's original games that might have resonance for you:

Debtor, unsurprisingly. As Berne points out, debt is socially encouraged and rewarded. It makes the world go round. But what happens when the debtor, in Child mode, decides not to fulfil his part of the social bargain and default on his debts?

There's a very popular game of Now I’ve Got You, You Son of a Bitch, in which the player gets a kick out of 'beating the system', pulling a fast one; gaining advantage by exploiting the social agreements, spoken and unspoken. This can be played in Child or Parent mode but the motivation is always the Child's.

Players of NIGYSOB are well matched with Why does this always happen to me? enthusiasts. Berne hasn't included it in his website, but not only is it self-explanatory: you have actually asked this question in one of your posts.

When you were considering a role as financial mentor/controller to your boyfriend, you volunteered for a Parent role. That is also dysfunctional, and would most likely lead to a situation where he tries to wriggle past your imposed restrictions (NIGYSOB) and you end up flip-flopping between Blemish with Parental self-justifications, and Look how hard I've tried as a plaintive Child.

Get the book! Not all games are dysfunctional, and they don't all have to be played in Adult mode. People can have a lot of fun when they're both in Child mode (as you've experienced), and two Parents can help improve each other's behaviours with informed consent. However, it looks as though your boyfriend's a dyed-in-wool NIGYSOB player. People hardly ever renounce this game without therapy - it's exciting, it brings material rewards, and is often socially beneficial.

The only way not to get involved with Games is to refuse to play. This usually leads to the other person disengaging, after trying a few more moves, to find a willing co-player.

Thanks for your kind reply 🙂 With plenty of therapy, I gave up trying to play NIGYSOB but it was already too late to save my lovely flat and/or credit rating. I have been extremely poor since then, and have to pull myself up whenever I find myself starting a game of Indigence or Poor Me!

@GarlicGrace Grace under fire indeed!
That book looks interesting...the games we play...

@LaPL 'Mental health issues - you all talk about this quite freely, diagnosing someone you never met, you never talked to. There is so much stigma around mental health. The way I see it, your brain is like any other organ. If this guy had diabetes you would suggest me to walk away?'

So you think he's a nutter?

'I suffered from chronic anxiety (I still do sometimes) my entire life, I used to get panic attacks and all. Does that makes me a bad person?'

I don't know, are you going to keep exposing your child to a lying 40 year old stranger?

👉Lying stranger.

@GarlicGrace gosh that is absolutely shocking- I'm so sorry. How rapacious are these organisations. I really hope you can be debt free sometime soon.

In the meantime your situation should be taught in schools!!

@GarlicGrace - so, if you fall in love with someone, would you be happy to hear everyone here telling your partner "Oh god, run for the hills! not worth it"
you think you are not worth it because you had debts in the past (still have)?

Would be possible to focus on other qualities?
Like the way he acts and helps his mom, the way he went to live a few months with his dying grandma when nobody else did, the way he talk about people he loves, the care he demonstrated to have, the compassion for animals, strangers, less fortunate - all these things have nothing to do with me or the way he was with me.

Is my judgement towards people completely off? Or should he receive an Oscar for this 360 degrees performance?

@LaPL, I have, naturally, tried to envisage being in that situation. It's only fair to your man that I should. The thing is, I wouldn't have done all the dreamy future-building that he did. Sure, if I met someone who appreciated all my good points and wanted to think about a future together, I'd be sad to think that I couldn't fully participate in it and would be bringing a big problem to the relationship. I'd have to tell him - and not in a way that might somehow put him in a rescuer role.

I just wouldn't have led someone up the garden path like this! Even in full NIGYSOB mode (I used to work in an intensely competitive sales environment, where everyone played that Game), I wouldn't see the point in creating a relationship based on a false version of me. I wouldn't see the point ... unless that person did want to make all my problems go away, and I was willing to lie back & be rescued. In fact, I dated such a man and I ended it. I'd have been choosing a co-dependency from the start, and I'd already had enough fucked-up relationships, thanks. (The posh dinners and the holiday were nice, though!)

I also wouldn't have secreted a large amount of cash while still in debt. I can understand doing that, but I'm not understanding it from a good place. It's the action of a game player, someone who's always looking for an angle, thinking up a new trick. An ace up his sleeve.

There's no rational explanation for the fake future planning. You are 100% right to feel angry and betrayed. I'm sorry.

The guy is an actor though so you need to take everything he says with a pinch of salt. He might be taking passionately about various topics and people but up until last week he was passionately planning your wedding and venue and letting you believe it all when he knew it wouldn't be happening.

I know you love him and it seems clear that you will stay with him but you need to be very wary of believing anything he says.

The problem with people who lie professionally like this man is that you can’t trust a word he says. So my first thought when reading this was

“ how do you know he was living with his dying grandma ? Apart from him telling you . “

I know for a fact, dated pictures, family members telling me etc. his speech at the funeral with all his cousins and all his family there, I mean, if it wasn’t true someone would have said something.

I'm sure he's a lovely person. Very few people are all bad. Many people are lovely but with major character flaws.

While desperately trying not assume dodgy motives to everything he does - because I'm sure he is a lovely person - I've got ask whether he inherited anything from his grandmother?

Finally, in case you've managed to avoid thinking this for yourself: the $65k he's squirrelled away is basically his creditors' money, isn't it. That is, he was able to save it by spending credit and then not making his payments. It's not evidence of responsibility, only dishonesty.

If you're intent on staying with him, I'd do a full background check on him.

'I suffered from chronic anxiety (I still do sometimes) my entire life, I used to get panic attacks and all. Does that makes me a bad person?'

All the more reason not to get involved with someone who will cause you chronic anxiety.

Love (and it’s only been 18 months) is not a reason to throw out reason and good judgement.

No. ‘WE’ can’t afford the holiday.

You can afford afford the holiday. He can not.

He isn’t trying to pay back a mortgage. You know, where at the end you actually have something to show for it. Something that’s designed to be a long term debt.

Why are you now comparing it to a mortgage? You don’t think it’s a big deal anymore? Did you accidentally take your mortgage by reckless spending?

Besides which, it’s not about ‘not living’ for 30 years. He is going to get huge amounts of debt written off because he can’t afford it. But CAN afford an expensive holiday. That’s not the mind set of someone who has realised they fucked up and trying their best to fix it. It also shows his pattern of behaviour hasn’t changed. He is still planning holidays while being in huge amounts of debt, that he can not afford to pay back. If someone suddenly found themselves with less money coming in, and couldn’t afford their mortgage it would be entirely reckless for them to plan and go on holiday.

As for ‘would be expect me to leave him if he was diabetic’, that doesn’t even make sense. Because if he was a diabetic who refused to manage it, refused to take action to manage it, made themselves repeatedly I’ll and planned to continue the same behaviour and it was having a huge impact (or even potential huge impact) on your life and your sons life, then yes. I would say walk away.

That’s coming from someone who has adhd and ptsd. It’s my responsibility to at least try and manage my ADHD and my ptsd and the impacts it has on my dp, but most of all my kids. It’s also my responsibility to protect my kids. Full stop. Which, may include not having someone around them, due to that persons illness and how they manage it. Alcoholism is also an illness. I wouldn’t have someone who was an active alcoholic around my kids. If you think that would make someone a poor partner, then you really do have boundary issues.

Besides which, you are so preoccupied with you appearing as a good partner, you are ignoring the fact that lying makes someone a bad partner. He isn’t being a good partner to you. I mean this kindly, but maybe you need to look at why appearing to be a good partner, is a priority for you. And why that means putting yourself last. I think there’s some left over issues, from your marriage that you haven’t solved yet.

The real question though @LaPL is what did you want from your post here?

It comes across as if all you wanted was sympathy and validation for choosing to stay with him.

Because at the moment you are acting like your own defence lawyer and finding reasons to stay, however weak your case.

You asked WWYD and around 95% of posters have said leave him.

Yes, he has good qualities, everyone does. No one is 'all bad'. Or very few. But this is about the kind of life you'd be having with a man who has got himself into serious financial difficulties. The fact he's kind to his gran and animals is not really the point, is it?

I have sympathy for you because a man lied to me for a year. Not about money but about the existence of a partner. It didn't start off as a lie- he told me from Day 1 that he was separated- but things changed.

The longer this went on, he admitted, the harder it was to come clean. He wasn't a bad person, but he was weak at the time and, basically, hedging his bets.

So having been on the other side, I can see how your man got caught up in living this lie until he had to be honest. maybe, just maybe, it's his way of saying he wants out. He said he expects you to end it - is that what he wants and is this a 'kind' way of doing it? And if you don't, what does that say to him? That you are so in love you will accept him on any terms? The balance of your relationship would always be in his favour.

He can be all the lovely things you have said above ^^. But overriding that is his fantasy life- living beyond his means, and making promises or suggestions to you that he can't fulfil. He's in his 40s - not a young bloke of 20-30. That would worry me as it suggests his money problems are longer term and deeper personality issues.

He does need therapy to unravel why he's behaved this way. That's more important than what he does now - finding out why he couldn't stop spending.

People fall in love irrationally, it's not logical. But that doesn't mean that because you love him, you can't step back and decide a sensible way forward. This could go either way. He could clear his debts and be a different person. Or he could become fall back into his old ways, be dependent on you, till you kick him out down the line.

'Love' isn't always enough. You need to look at the whole person and not minimise his faults just because that supports your wish to stay with him.

I'd take a long break, tell him to come back in a year and show you what he's done. In the meantime if you meet someone else, so be it.

And you were 100% certain that your (abusive) ex was right for you and right to be the father of your child

rhis relationship is over. He’s lied. He had a million billion opportunities to tell you the truth and he hasn’t

he’s future faked you your entire relationship

in short you don’t know him.

this is a guy you’ve known for ONLY 18m.

you MUST end it. You have no idea what else he’s lied about or will lie about

he’s groomed you to get where he wanted to be without any thought or consideration for you or for your child.

imagine what else he’s hiding!?

sorry love, but you know what you need to do. You need to end this to protect yourself and your child.

He has been ignoring the other big debt, that yes.

OP this comment that you made really jumped out at me. How can a 40+ man ignore a debt of £120,000 for so long??

OP you clearly want to be with the man regardless of how many times people point out what he’s like.

You are twisting yourself into every angle to give reasons why you should stay with him.

To compare him running up debts on holidays to a chronic illness is tasteless and desperate.
Because if, as you say, he has managed to control his spending for the last 2 years and save, then he can’t even claim it’s a compulsive addiction. He’s just careless with money and happy for someone else to carry the can.

Anyone who actually cared about getting their life together and proving to you they are responsible would be making efforts to pay the debt off.

Instead he’s talking about wedding venues and big houses - you say yourself million dollars plus - and booking expensive vacations. All whilst knowing he owes 120k and having only vague plans to get it written off with you hoping his parents will bail him out so you can have your big house.

And for all your ‘I would never give him a penny of my money’ claims, given how desperate you seem to keep him, I don’t think you’d be able to help yourself.

So ask him to move in. Tell him you want full access to his finances. Watch every move he makes financially. See how that goes.

Is my judgement towards people completely off?

Well, to be frank, it sounds like it is

Mental health issues - you all talk about this quite freely, diagnosing someone you never met, you never talked to. There is so much stigma around mental health. The way I see it, your brain is like any other organ. If this guy had diabetes you would suggest me to walk away?
I suffered from chronic anxiety (I still do sometimes) my entire life, I used to get panic attacks and all. Does that makes me a bad person?

You've got a saviour complex. You've mentioned a few times wanting to save him, save him from himself etc. And asking if people loved their partner surely they'd want to help them/save them. There's a difference between helping a partner and wanting to "save them". You don't seem to understand the difference. You even wanted to control his finances. A saviour complex is bad - you can't rescue another human being from their problems. You're going to come back at me and asking me some question "Wouldn't you want to xxxx if you loved him...." Well not at the expense of my own mental health, my stability and that of my child. No.
You have suffered at the hands of an emotional and abusive ex. It doesn't sound like you have been able to come to terms with that yet, and you really should get some counselling to try and work through the issues because if your self-esteem is poor and you also have a saviour complex you are going to be a magnet for all kinds of men who do not have your best interests at heart and you won't have firm enough boundaries.
To answer your question about if he had diabetes would people suggest you walk away. Yes, they would, if he was doing absolutely nothing to deal with it and it was therefore impacting on your life. There was a thread on here not too long ago about a husband with diabetes who was also obese and whose health was getting worse because he was not taking medication, not eating properly etc, and seemingly didn't care. This was impacting the OP and children to such an extent she was at the end of her tether. Many people did suggest she walk away unless he started to deal with it properly.
Same thing in your case. I really don't understand why you don't just say, ok, we date, he doesn't move in under any circumstances, see how it goes.
If your real problem is that he is not in a financial position to provide the future lifestyle you would like, ie. you can't afford to buy a property alone, you would like to have another child etc, then you will either have to rethink your future plans or you will have to leave him and find someone else.

But I don't really know why I am wasting my time pissing in the wind here.
I'm going to say it one more time, you'd be an absolute fool to move this man in with his 120K of debt. The most you should be doing is dating, if that.
You keep saying you would never give him money, use up your savings to help him etc, but you don't seem to appreciate that if you move someone like that in to your home, you are indirectly giving him money because he's living off your back effectively. If he then turns into a cocklodger you are going to have way more issues down the line. And you have absolutely no idea what he's really like.

OP, you're incredibly vehement about having a future with this guy.

Many posters here are trying to keep you safe from more lies/heartbreak/financial ruin/scams but even more crucial than this is keeping your daughter safe and happy.

She needs to be the very top priority in all this, and its really not clear how this man is anything but an unknown quantity in her life, bringing risk, distraction and a dysfuntional lifestyle.

Who wants that for their child, especially after a difficult relationship and divorce from her father?

He's too damaged, and this is too much too soon. Break the spell and step back. If he's still interested once he's sorted out his own finances and life then perhaps reconsider then.

@LaPL For all the people who says "dump him now" - I know how easy that is to say, you don't know how difficult it is for me right now.

yes we do. When you realise someone isn’t who they said they were, when you’ve been a victim of an abuser in the past and now have a child to protect, you do what needs to be done right away and then take the time to heal and love yourself back to where you should be all along.

tear off the bandaid and then the healing begins. Give him the space and incentive he needs to take charge of his shit and he will have the place to prove himself.

So my first thought when reading this was “ how do you know he was living with his dying grandma ? Apart from him telling you . “

My first thought was 'was granny rich?' but then I am very cynical.

OP very few people or situations are entirely good or bad. Most people are a mixture. He may be faking his better parts but they may be genuine too. I suspect he is nice, especially when it suits him. The question is, on balance, are the good bits outweighing the bad bits for you?

I mean according to a lot mumsnetters I was a bad bet for my OH. I have ongoing issues with depression. I have no house and no savings. I'm in my 40s and prior to my OH had only managed to stay with someone for about 18 months, tops. However, I was completely up front with him about all this very early on. He knew what he was getting into. And for him, my good points by far outweigh the bad. He knows I manage my depression. We have no plans to move in together. He knows why my financial situation is as it is. We've been together for several years and we're both happy.

If I were you, I'd ask why you came on MN? What were you hoping people would say? Because you must have some doubts. If you were sure and certain, you wouldn't bother. But the more we say leave him, the more you dig your heels in and want to stay with him. Why is that? Why are you damping down that bit of yourself that is unsure of him?