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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

My relationship with 7 year old daughter is breaking down and I don’t know what to do anymore. Please offer some support if you can.

137 replies

Myfirstborn · 20/03/2023 09:58

Please be kind this is killing me.

I share a daughter, 7, with my ex, she was 3 when I left due to abuse. He took it to court but was found guilty and after a few years no access and a bit of supervised access has been given every other weekend. I and he have new relationships. I’ve been with mine a few years and in the beginning his and her relationship was lovely.

Everything is slowly going downhill. Especially since contact has started. Daughter was always a little difficult. I don’t blame her. For the first 3 years when her parents were together her dad abused her mum and he manipulated dd. Her dad would not parent with me and said it’s his job to be the good cop and me the bad. He would do no naughty step, but buy, feed her what she wanted, let her do what she wanted. If that meant she had a whole six pack of crisps then so be it. Narcissistic behaviour really. He was manipulating her, he needed her love. When the judge denied him contact I must admit I felt guilty and perhaps was too gentle on her in those early years. I’ve made a rod for my own back people tell me. But these behaviours were visible before the contact stopped when she was 3.

This behaviour has just got worse and worse. She disrespects me on a daily basis. She has told me to die. She lies, cheats, steals in order to get what she wants, at all costs really. She doesn’t care if things get taken away or she can’t have it later as long as she gets it at that point. She is awful to my partner now, says she hates him ( she used to say she loved him and gave him cuddles). Their relationship is breaking down. He also sees how she treats me and he finds it upsetting.

If she wants something she will just take it despite me telling her she needs to ask. When I say anything to her I just get I will tell my dad on you and he will come and shout at you. When she gets told off or called out she will react with anger and will then blame her outburst on me, or whoever calls her out. She is doing it at school also. If someone takes something from her because she refuses to share she will bite them or push them. She will blame her reaction on them. She if asked will not feel sorry or understand that hurting another isn’t kind.

I ordered her some age appropriate books last week to read to her. One was called Kindness is my super power. She saw it on the table and said I know why you bought me this then proceeded to throw it in the bin saying I don’t want to be kind.

I feel awful saying it and I try so desperately to word it in this way but I hate her behaviour. I don’t like taking her around family for dinners etc as she will make her cousins cry when she constantly cheats on games. She steals others sweets etc. She says things eg for Mother’s Day yesterday we went to the in-laws for dinner and she looked up at the table and went “urgh are we still here”. She was then told no more cake so she stole 3
in the end that she got caught out.

I don’t know what to do. I’m guessing that our differing parent techniques has done this. Her father puts her on a pedestal and manipulates this for his advantage. She has always loved it, who wouldn’t rather do and get what they want. I try and enforce boundaries but it’s not working. I try and teach her consequences but she doesn’t get it at all. She didn’t even want to spend Mother’s Day with me, she wanted to go to her dads so she can get bought toys and he doesn’t make me do anything. When I told her that she’d be with mummy yesterday she got so angry at me. I must admit I got a bit teary, that’s my little girl.

I feel I’m loosing her.

OP posts:
Myfirstborn · 21/03/2023 13:04

I’m going to do the house rules poster and rewards with a reward something only a mummy can do. We shall see what she would like to do as a reward.

OP posts:
RandomMess · 21/03/2023 13:36

Your poor DD and poor you.

He is emotionally abusing her and there is little you can do.

How to talk so kids can listen, listen so kids can talk plus the one aimed for age group. Read and reread and keep practicing those techniques.

Specialist therapist

Flowers
EliflurtleTripanInfinite · 21/03/2023 13:56

My DC are all ND, one has anxiety too, they all see psychologists regularly and there are many different approaches. With my anxious DC especially they recommended using rewards for them trying small steps to work on their anxiety. They stressed that it was really vital there's an immediate reward, not just a sticker on a chart and you can work towards bigger rewards too but they need an immediate payoff. This doesn't have to be anything material, it can be a short story, or lots of praise with high fives, or a favourite song and dance around with mum, whatever works. DC got to chose a single small item, mostly art stuff, and lots of praise, I'd say they wanted us to be over the top effusive, but it really does help.

All DC therapists, speech, physiotherapist and so on use a lot of very effusive praise, along with small achievable goals, if goals aren't achievable they might not even be able to try. It's tempting to try and do it all, but you really need to pick one or two things and concentrate on those, some simple rules and not many, add more once the first couple are being regularly achieved. If she exhibits any of the behaviours you want, even if it's half hearted, lots of praise.

Myfirstborn · 21/03/2023 14:24

@EliflurtleTripanInfinite whats ND?

OP posts:
StopStartStop · 21/03/2023 15:17

neurodiverse.
Autism/adhd and more.
My family are all nd.

StopStartStop · 21/03/2023 15:17

neurodivergent!

WelshNerd · 21/03/2023 15:29

I would contact your local domestic abuse team to help access play therapy for children. Please remember that she is a victim of abuse due to what she's witnessed.

Dinhop · 21/03/2023 15:41

Why don’t you just let her go and live with him full-time and focus on your other child/new relationship? You both sound utterly miserable. Maybe it’s time to just admit defeat?

Myfirstborn · 21/03/2023 17:07

@Dinhop yeah that’s the attitude just abandon your child to the abuser. Perhaps I should have just stayed and been abused also and given up all hope.

OP posts:
Ermweareemergencyservices · 10/04/2023 20:14

Hope you’re ok @Myfirstborn :(

BadgerFacedCoo · 10/04/2023 20:27

WelshNerd · 21/03/2023 15:29

I would contact your local domestic abuse team to help access play therapy for children. Please remember that she is a victim of abuse due to what she's witnessed.

Prepare for them to flag that you have a new partner around her already.

She's been through so much, no one protected her, and now she's got to deal with another man.

SunflowerTed · 10/04/2023 20:36

neilyoungismyhero · 20/03/2023 15:11

I agree, maybe she would flourish there.

I think she would be better off with her father to be honest. The damage has been done sadly

ClementWeatherToday · 10/04/2023 22:38

How would a child be better off being raised by a narcissistic abuser? What a ridiculous thing to say.

OP, if you are still reading then I would maybe suggest you look into parental alienation (which I suspect is what he is trying to do to you). I would keep a record of the things she reports he says (about ripping off people's heads, or you being cruel, or him sat sobbing at her on the phone or at drop offs). I'd do this with a view to returning to court eventually.

I'd also contact the local branch of Women's Aid and see what they can advise. They will have seen this before, many times. Chin up

Myfirstborn · 11/04/2023 08:12

I’m ok. It’s been hard still. She pushes against everything. Her response to everything she is asked for example it’s dinner it’s time to tidy toys is still met with no. Everything is met with I just don’t want to. She is still taking things and hiding when you say no. I just hope it’s a phase.

I’ve thought perhaps she’d be better off with her dad as they similar personalities but then she will never get the chance to see a different perspective. He will be using her and I don’t think I could live with myself if I gave up.

There is a possibility that she has his genes but maybe it’s also a phase. But she has always been like this from a very young age. She has never made friends from reception up. I’ve always been called up and told she has made an unhealthy friendship. She seems to be drawn constantly to conflict. It causes conflict at home between me and my partner because she is rude to him all the time. She appears to enjoy it and smiles. I say to her well you’ve lost that toy now for talking back. She goes and gets more and says confiscate this as well, it becomes a game. On the naughty step she won’t get off it when she is allowed, she wants more time on it.

Shes had more years away from abuse so its not been in her life for about 4 years. I left when she was 3.

OP posts:
Seeline · 11/04/2023 08:37

When did your partner move in?
When was the new baby born?

It seems she has had a lot to contend with in the 4 years since you left her dad.

Myfirstborn · 11/04/2023 08:48

We have been together over 2 years and he moved in what after being together 2 years. The baby was a little surprise. She absolutely loves her little sister and says it’s all she’s ever wanted. Then goes on to say Im going to teach her how to be rude to you. At the beginning we took it very slow. It’s one of those things though that is going to stay. My partner is a lovely man and treats me with respect and her. It’s a positive relationship for her to witness instead of what she will witness with her dads.

OP posts:
SunflowerTed · 11/04/2023 08:59

BadgerFacedCoo · 10/04/2023 20:27

Prepare for them to flag that you have a new partner around her already.

She's been through so much, no one protected her, and now she's got to deal with another man.

This. The poor kid can’t just switch off all the trauma and changes in her life. Very damaged sadly

sashh · 11/04/2023 09:25

OP

This is a little girl who is confused and in pain.

She thinks she doesn't deserve to have a nice home and nice parents so she is pushing the boundaries.

Your ex is the problem, you know that and I don't know how you can stop his influence, can you go back to court?

Your ex is abusing her, children need adults around them who care for them not give them anything they want for an easy life.

Maybe what she wants is for you to say, "your behaviour is bad when you are here so you need to stop going to your dads". I know it is not as easy as that but she deserves to be safe and loved in both homes.

Sorry I can't be of more help.

Myfirstborn · 11/04/2023 09:26

@BadgerFacedCoo I think you are mistaken. Someone did protect her and that was me. She has a safe home within a functional family. She has a little sister now (yes a surprise) but she absolutely loves her to bits. She has a mummy not being abused by her father. A few of you on here including @SunflowerTed are not particularly nice people.

OP posts:
caringcarer · 11/04/2023 09:26

I know it might not be possible but could you talk to her Dad about her behaviour and about how she is getting into trouble and is unhappy because of her poor behaviour. Could you ask for you and he to sit down alone and draft some rules she must stick to at both homes?

Myfirstborn · 11/04/2023 09:29

@caringcarer I’d absolutely love for this to happen but it isn’t possible. We’ve been down that road many times. I’ve asked the teacher when he calls for his parents evening to explain the benefit of rules at school etc but it will fall on deaf ears as he is unable to see beyond self.

OP posts:
Myfirstborn · 11/04/2023 09:33

@sashh why doesn’t she think she deserves a nice home? Do you think she blames herself? I’ve always tried to explain the best way I can that sometimes adults don’t bring out the best in each other so can’t be together, it was nothing to do with her. I have no idea what he is saying but I’m pretty sure he blames me from what she tells me. I’m unsure whether she in a way sides with him and blames me so is sabotaging her life here and the relationships. She does seem happy when arguments happen. She seems to want me and my partner to argue and create situations. She seems happy when I am upset.

OP posts:
AbbaG12 · 11/04/2023 09:42

Op, that sounds so tough. It sounds like you're attempting to make changes and then being under mind. The rollerskating thing is so frustrating because she can't learn.

I definitely think GP, counselling is the way forward. Just in the short term, and feel free to use this or not, but I'd strip this right to basics of reinforcement.

I see you say she doesn't pick up her toys or clothes in the morning. I'd pick one thing to focus on. Say the clothes. Don't worry about toys or other things that week, just the clothes.

I'd have a sticker chart but also instant rewards. Sticker charts are quite hard for kids to grasp at younger ages and get bored. I'd get a bag of party bag fillers. Bouncy balls, sticky frogs all that sort of thing. Don't show her what stuff you have in there and out it in a lock box (both to stop her Stealing it and stop her dad just buying it) When she puts her clothes in the washing basket, instant reward and stupid amounts of praise. Also she gets a sticker and at the end of the week she'll get a super suprise present. If she doesn't, no fuss. Just say "no worries, you can try again tomorrow."

Regarding the super awesome present, don't tell her what she's getting. Then her dad can't steal the idea. I'd actually make the treat an experience. So maybe going to a dessert shop, going and doing something she loves, make your own pizza and movie movie, getting a bit of money to pick out a treat. It doesn't have to be overly expensive. Maybe have 2 options so she feels in charge. I'd maybe get her to make a list of things she loves to do (without her knowing these are going to be a reward) have some simple ones (going to the park just with mum) and some that maybe a big treat (theme park). This also helps work on your relationship as it's about time spent together as treat other than too much posessions as rewards.

When she does achieve a week or whats expected to her, discuss with her how awesome she must feel for achieving that. Make it a big thing that she's achieved something. Discuss how it feels so much better to earn something than just get given it.

If she achieves that, add one. Next week is toys and clothes.

If she does something else spontaneously that you like, give her a sticker towards her big reward but I'd really focus on one thing.

She could be feeling overwhelmed with all the different instructions and every time she starts a sticker chart or aims for a reward, she's not getting it, so she's not learning how positive reinforcement works.

itsgettingweird · 11/04/2023 09:43

I’m ok. It’s been hard still. She pushes against everything. Her response to everything she is asked for example it’s dinner it’s time to tidy toys is still met with no. Everything is met with I just don’t want to. She is still taking things and hiding when you say no. I just hope it’s a phase.

Have you tried the tact of "when x happens y will happen".

For example

"I'm cooking nuggets and chips for dinner. When you've tidied your toys up I can serve up dinner". Then walk away. Don't engage any further. Carry on and assume that at some point she will tidy them up and have her dinner.

It'll help teach her to feel good for following instructions because it gives her positive reward. It also isn't a sentence that can be answered with no! She'll also see that there are clear boundaries and you believe on her and believe she can do what you ask. Then you praise the action rather than the reward.

For example "you've done a fantastic job of tidying there. I'm so proud of the job you've done." All the while preparing for whatever she could have by completing the task. The reward is presented nonchalantly so it doesn't become a thing where reward is felt dependent on behaviour.

If she replies "I'm not tidying up" you repeat "when your toys are tidied we will do x"

Repeat for things such as iPad etc. rather than remove the, for poor behaviour choices reward her screen time for little things. Before school. "Dd we leave in 30 minutes. If you get washed and dressed quickly you'll have some time for iPad before we leave". Then walk away. Let her feel in control of her choice. When she's dressed praise how smart she looks, how well she got dressed, how clear her face os or whatever. Then just hand the iPad over and say simply "you have 10 minutes until we leave"

Midsummernightmare · 11/04/2023 10:05

I’m sorry for your situation, you probably already know there’s no easy answer to this. I’ve been there with my own children, having to watch them be manipulated and bought by my ex who was also very narcissistic and manipulative.
Hard as it is ignore what goes on with him, he is only doing it to get to you, he will not care what damage he is doing to your dd but at the same will be very clever about what he is doing. Trying to change that will be like banging your head against a wall.
Your daughter, like all children needs safe, secure boundaries. She won’t know this, she is too young and mixed up to know this but you as an adult do. Have your house rules and consequences and stick to them. It doesn’t matter what happens at daddy’s, this is what’s happening here, that’s not happening here. Not ‘I don’t care what happens at daddy’s’ but ‘that’s fine for daddy’s darling but here we …..’. You will get a LOT of pushback, stick to your guns and ride it out. Make sure you are separating the behaviour from her, you can love her whilst not liking her behaviour, make sure to praise positive things and always end the day with ‘I love you’.
Do not fall into the trap of discussing or criticising daddy, just wave her off with ‘have a lovely time, love you, see you soon’, stay positive much as it will kill you to do this.
At some point you may have to let her go her own way. Around 11/12 hrs of age a court will allow a child to choose where they live, be prepared for this to happen. This happened with all of mine in different ways, one stayed with dad, one came to me for a while until dad bought pets for them, one came with me but went to live with dad at age 13 due to rebelling against my boundaries. That one came back a year later at their request.
Get the help from your GP, push for school to help her deal with behaviour but DO NOT get sucked in by him. It might get a whole lot worse before it gets better but one day, a long time from now, she will realise.
Relish in the love of your new family and include her and bathe her in all of your love. One day it will pay off, taken best part of 10yrs but I have got my children back as they are realising what a complete arse their father really is.

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