My relationship with 7 year old daughter is breaking down and I don’t know what to do anymore. Please offer some support if you can.

[Myfirstborn]

Please be kind this is killing me.

I share a daughter, 7, with my ex, she was 3 when I left due to abuse. He took it to court but was found guilty and after a few years no access and a bit of supervised access has been given every other weekend. I and he have new relationships. I’ve been with mine a few years and in the beginning his and her relationship was lovely.

Everything is slowly going downhill. Especially since contact has started. Daughter was always a little difficult. I don’t blame her. For the first 3 years when her parents were together her dad abused her mum and he manipulated dd. Her dad would not parent with me and said it’s his job to be the good cop and me the bad. He would do no naughty step, but buy, feed her what she wanted, let her do what she wanted. If that meant she had a whole six pack of crisps then so be it. Narcissistic behaviour really. He was manipulating her, he needed her love. When the judge denied him contact I must admit I felt guilty and perhaps was too gentle on her in those early years. I’ve made a rod for my own back people tell me. But these behaviours were visible before the contact stopped when she was 3.

This behaviour has just got worse and worse. She disrespects me on a daily basis. She has told me to die. She lies, cheats, steals in order to get what she wants, at all costs really. She doesn’t care if things get taken away or she can’t have it later as long as she gets it at that point. She is awful to my partner now, says she hates him ( she used to say she loved him and gave him cuddles). Their relationship is breaking down. He also sees how she treats me and he finds it upsetting.

If she wants something she will just take it despite me telling her she needs to ask. When I say anything to her I just get I will tell my dad on you and he will come and shout at you. When she gets told off or called out she will react with anger and will then blame her outburst on me, or whoever calls her out. She is doing it at school also. If someone takes something from her because she refuses to share she will bite them or push them. She will blame her reaction on them. She if asked will not feel sorry or understand that hurting another isn’t kind.

I ordered her some age appropriate books last week to read to her. One was called Kindness is my super power. She saw it on the table and said I know why you bought me this then proceeded to throw it in the bin saying I don’t want to be kind.

I feel awful saying it and I try so desperately to word it in this way but I hate her behaviour. I don’t like taking her around family for dinners etc as she will make her cousins cry when she constantly cheats on games. She steals others sweets etc. She says things eg for Mother’s Day yesterday we went to the in-laws for dinner and she looked up at the table and went “urgh are we still here”. She was then told no more cake so she stole 3
in the end that she got caught out.

I don’t know what to do. I’m guessing that our differing parent techniques has done this. Her father puts her on a pedestal and manipulates this for his advantage. She has always loved it, who wouldn’t rather do and get what they want. I try and enforce boundaries but it’s not working. I try and teach her consequences but she doesn’t get it at all. She didn’t even want to spend Mother’s Day with me, she wanted to go to her dads so she can get bought toys and he doesn’t make me do anything. When I told her that she’d be with mummy yesterday she got so angry at me. I must admit I got a bit teary, that’s my little girl.

I feel I’m loosing her.

@Myfirstborn Have you asked why she doesn't want to be kind?

ive had calls from her teacher to say she keeps talking over her. She bit a girl because she wanted to be first at some
thing but it was the girls turn. She doesn’t really have friends because she isn’t nice to them. It’s sad to hear.so I thought a book might be helpful

Our local disability group had an online session with a charity called Trauma Informed Parenting (they have a Facebook page). Their approach might be useful for you, it’s all about connection and dealing with your own trauma, and has great results for many people in quite complex and extreme situations.

@NCMum79 because she wants to do what she wants and we, school etc won’t let her

My ex abandoned his sons when they were small. Several years later he came back into their lives. I was stupid to give him unlimited access, and slowly he turned them against me telling them that I stopped them from seeing him.
then he took them away and i had to get a court order to get them back after many months. They came back behaving exactly like your daughter and much worse. Their father is a narcisssist and the parental alienation was extreme. My kids came back violent, verbal abuse and wanted me to die, seriously die, and this carried on for months. I thought I lost my kids forever. The kids who came back were not mine.
The court ceased physical contact with the father, and he can only have remote access on video . That , along with school counsellors, pychiatrist, and extreme patience of 3 months ....finally, my children are back to themselves.When they were with their dad, there was no rules, no regulation,no boundaries because the narcissists needed his supply from the kids.
What you are experiencing is parental alienation. Keep a log book of it, and inform the court. Work with the school, and you may see a pattern. When dad came back on the scene with contact, chaos followed. For me,now that the father still has remote access while we are doing the divorce, the children's behaviour has improved tremendously. They have not gotten into trouble at school, and they are thriving.

Read up on parental alienation. The more you talk to your children about consequences and good behaviour, the more you feed into the narrative that your ex has been feeding your child that mum is no fun, mum restricts fun, mum just nags, etc.

@horizonsblue she came back Saturday evening and said to me I know why I’m not sick at daddies I said why and she said because im happy there. I asked how she knew that she said daddy told me.

It’s reinforced with toys and trips and attention and no rules. I just can’t counteract it like I could when it was letters only.

Easier said then done when she goes to the father's house and he poisons her against the mother and undermines her and lets her do whatever she wants. That's what op meant by "good cop, bad cop".

I'd be looking for legal advice on parental alienation.

You need to document the visits, and everything that your daughter says. This is classic parental alienation where he is forcing your child to turn against you, break your relationship for no apparent reason.
Document all this and go to court and get an application for supervised visits. Work with the school to support you showing that their has been a drastic change in behaviour.

Severe parental alienation
Severely alienated children not only resist time with the other parent, but also actively run away or otherwise act fearfully to not be around that parent.

A campaign of denigration against the targeted parent
The child’s lack of guilty feelings for rejecting the target parent
When asked, the child gives irrational and frivolous reasons for the criticisms of the targeted parent
The child paints the parents in black and white — one parent can do no wrong, while everything the second parent does is horrible.
A knee-jerk defensiveness of everything about the favored parent
A child who parrots the favored parent's words, often using phrases of an adult to describe the rejected parent, or citing scenarios that he or she heard the favored parent speak about, but did not himself experience.
Spread of the child’s animosity toward the target parent’s extended family or friends.
A child suffering from parental alienation often insists that his feelings are entirely his own. The child might call his father to say: “I don’t want to come to your house anymore. Mom had nothing to do with this decision, I made it all on my own.” The alienating parent is quick to protect the child’s “right” to choose whether he wants to visit his parent.
Children may show warmth and affection towards the targeted parent when alone with them, but then speak poorly of them to others, including the alienating parent.

below from the leading parental alienation expert Dr. Steven Miller: (google him)

It is counter-instinctual for children to reject a parent. Children are instinctual creatures.
Children will RARELY do it in the absence of a powerful alienating influence. Children DO
NOT reject their parents for minor reasons.
We surveyed 338 therapists who work with children who were physically abused, even
SEVERELY abused children. The physically-abused children RARELY displayed FOUR of the
EIGHT manifestations. NONE that exhibited all eight. If a child exhibits six or more, you can
be assured that it is parental alienation. Children, in the absence of an alienator, DO NOT
REJECT A PARENT.

What do you expect the school to do?

This is to do with your relationship with your ex. And your different parenting techniques.

I'd suggest she lives with him for 4 weeks. As tough as it might be. Let him me the bad cop for a bit.

I agree, maybe she would flourish there.

It sounds like your child is unhappy, insecure and in desperate need of Nurture & boundaries. Boundaries will help her build up resilience, eventually. Look into the nurturenetwork.uk and read up on the strategies they use. Open, random access to any 'want' is not helpful for young kids, they need to know someone is in charge, dependable and trusted to meet their needs. The person who is nurturing them is the one they are securely attached to because they are the person who can be trusted to keep them safe and meet their needs. Your child sounds like she needs help with attachment issues and you need to be aware of what this means. Can you get social services involved re your ex?

@GreenFingersWouldBeHandy it isn’t a difference in parenting technique when one is re-writing history and filling their child’s head with lies and information she doesn’t need to hear. He once told her that if someone is mean at school to tell him and he’d Rip there head off, these are children. She came home and said to my partner if you are ever rude I’ll tell my dad and he will come over and rip your head off.

This is not about parenting style, but parental alienation, and until you experience it, it is hard to understand sometimes.
For those who comment how can the school help....this is how.
The school can see also a drastic change in behaviour of the child at school. social services can connect with the school, and the information they gather can be given to the courts to show that her behaviour has drastically changed suddenly. You need to document all of this, inform the school about what is happening on the home front. parental alienation is soul destroying. No matter how you try to rationalise with your child, the child does not see you as the mother. You are the enemy. do not give up

@horizonsblue I’m not entirely convinced my ex is even doing it deliberately. He genuinely believes he has done no wrong and is trying to convince everyone he is a good person and a victim, it’s just unfortunate this includes our daughter also. How a person can’t see that throwing things at their wife which hits their child is not wrong I don’t know. Despite all the courses he was sent on he is still busy trying to manipulate her into thinking he is good. Her and everyone else in his life. I’m not sure he would bad mouth me directly as that would make him look bad to his girlfriend and our daughter (he is too clever for that). He is does is by re-writing history and giving her no boundaries, no rules, buying her and love bombing her. I have a feeling she is getting taken in by it and is starting to believe she is above everyone (including me) as he puts her there.

A decent father would want to teach their children the value in rules and boundaries so that they grow up to be emotionally and mentally strong. They could put the needs of the child above their own agenda. It’s similar to crappy parenting skills, one where a father can’t be bothered or didn’t witnesses good parenting themselves but minus the manipulation and the agenda. With narcissistic parents they are doing it for there own self, for supply. My ex needs the adoration and control in order to survive and control his inner self, it’s when this stops the problems start so he will do anything to keep this control. At the moment love bombing is working. The outcome is an adult who is a mess, who develops no empathy and can only see self, thinks in black and white and personal gain. One who sees their mother as the bad guy. I tell her the truth in an age appropriate manner as I’ve always been told is the best. He goes way into details and re-writes it all. For example he told her how he fought tooth and nail for her at court because mummy took her away from him. She came home that day saying me and my family are cruel to do that to a child. The truth was mummy stopped it to keep her safe, we went to court for help, we had a fact finding and he was found guilty and denied access by a judge for a long time. She doesn’t know what to believe and believes the person who shouts the loudest at the moment and the one which comes with anything she dreams of. It’s difficult to counteract this as if you keep up with something long enough it becomes intrenched.

I love her for who she is and who she can be. I’m here to try and guide her and show her the best ways to behave in the hope she grows up kind and loving and strong and has best chance in the big world. If that means she thinks I’m horrible at times then so be it.

He loves her for how she makes him feel, for topping up the fact deep down he hates himself and feels unloved. He can’t be horrible unless he looses control of her love supply and being horrible gets control back. He needs her love to survive.

If he was honest and told her I hurt your mummy so bad because I was desperate for her to love me and I didn’t want to face the fact that I felt unlovable deep down. In the crossfire objects hit you. I made your mummy unwell and I didn’t care. I manipulated everyone around me including you so that you loved me more and more because I had a leak. Just as fast as I felt love it leaked out the other end. I sucked her dry so now your mummy has a life long health condition and I damaged her mental health so severe that it’s taken years to repair, if it ever will fully.

It would be truthful and honest. Bridges can be built with honesty. But I don’t think that would make him look good at all so never going to happen.

She sounds very unhappy. Perhaps get in touch with Minds Time for you which is a child counselling service. It saved my DS when he was going through grief.

She may be resentful of your partner. Does she love going something you could both do together out of the house?

Please stop projecting onto a Child that is barely in primary school, all the romantic sweet nothings you wish an adult should have told you.

I cant even imagine what would have to go on in the brain of a mother to think talking to a 7(!!!) Y/O like this would be appropriate.
If he was honest and told her I hurt your mummy so bad because I was desperate for her to love me and I didn’t want to face the fact that I felt unlovable deep down

The only silver lining I see in this sad situation is that she's a girl not a boy.

I can't even imagine what parentifying a son to this extent would lead to

What options have you explored for mental health support for yourself, OP? It's sounds as if you are still (very understandably) struggling the abuse you experienced and this will be making everything much harder for you regarding decisions about your daughter.

I’m sorry @LoekMa I’m not understanding your response. I’m talking to a seven year old like what sorry?

@RosemaryAndTim I have had therapy and attend support groups.

It affects me as it would anyone to have their child being told lies about their relationship. We have both been on courses where we have learnt about deflection and not to get into a battle of who was write and wrong. I simply want her to spend time with her dad in the present day and not have her coming home telling me her dads words about our relationship. I ignore it, I tell her mummy and daddy remember things differently. It hurts me that she can’t just live her life with her mum and dad and be happy, and have her parents work on making this easier for her.

Every visit he brings her to my door. He and her cling onto each other crying, him saying mummy says you have to go away from me, I can’t live without you. Im neutral and say right come on in I need you to help decorate my cakes. She very often will just run and sit in the corner crying worrying about her dad crying. She will then say I don’t want to live with you. You are cruel etc. I’m trying my best I try so hard to remain calm for her.

I often wonder if she is doing this so I will tell her to go and live with him because he looks more distressed then me. She doesn’t know what she is doing but if she is “bad” enough here she can go and make him better because I don’t cry all the time he really needs her to make it better in her eyes. If that makes sense. She always tells me when she returns she is worried about him because he cried. He did it on the video call last week. She was excited telling her about beavers and the seeds she grew and he sits there sobbing. She was what’s wrong and he says something about I’m sat here thinking about things. The she decided she didn’t want to spent Mother’s Day with me anymore.
She very quickly changed.