Organisational skills for husband who don't get it

[demotedreally]

Ok I know I am going to get a load of grief for having married a. Man who doesn't seem to get life, but perhaps some people can cut through the crap and help me out a bit. Things didn't used to be this bad but I would say have never been great in this area.

We have a busy life, 2 full time jobs, a renovation and 3 kids all at primary, at least one of whom has SEN. The SEN is news to us in the last 6 months but is dominating our family dynamic (things have got bad quick).

In the meantime my husband seems to have lost control on daily life and I am doing everything, non stop and helping him to do his stuff too.

In recent weeks and months - I have organized the shit out of our lives to try to help - we have routines, a calendar, white board, a meal planner. My eldest children help with it all and tend to know what is going on, who should be where and what is for tea.

Dh doesn't seem to have a clue. He doesn't follow the meal planner on his cooking nights which upsets everyone (causes a mtdown for sen child), prepares meals for my cooking nights, picks up kids on my nights, "forgets what day it is", can't get them to bed on time (last night was 2130 instead of 2015). They always leave the house late on his drop offs.

I am trying to get tips from the internet on parenting together but it is all about shared values etc. Like prioritizing education or approach to discipline. We are nowhere near those discussions. He has no skin in those games. I just do it. "He can't get them to read, do homework, practice piano" etc etc. He wastes a lot of time - by forgetting stuff or coming back for things etc, his job is dishwasher and it takes him much of the evening to load it and sweep the floor.

He gets everyone's backs up by just giving out instructions and repeating them, which doesn't work as an approach. He doesn't consider the impact of this,he doesn't have fun with them particularly or listen to them much.

He is loving towards them. He is very willing in lots of ways. For eg he forgot to go to b&q earlier but when I reminded him off he went. (I just wish he hadn't actually forgotten of course)

We have run out of words for a discussion on this all. It is just a row. And the tension is not helping the kids. And although they love him, they think he is a fool for forgetting to cook the agreed meal, not knowing it is non uniform day etc.

And the burden on me is ridiculous.
(He also can't manage sen child behavior and literally stands there while dc is violent and bites.)

How do I change this dynamic? We are stuck.

“ He doesn't want to do any of it though” .

I think it’s strategic incompetence. it’s an alternative explanation to the ADHD diagnosis.

and I think the Ops home life sounds very normal for a family with 3 kids at school and two FT jobs.

When I am in a state of overwhelm, I can't think of anything worse! If I can't process the planner, the more complicated planner is going to be way too much.

I don't personally know anyone who has 3 kids and both partners in full time work, with the exception of someone who has a full time nanny plus housekeeper.

But have you actually had him assessed by a professional?

Because I had no idea I had ADHD until I was diagnosed at 40. I actually laughed when the psychiatrist told me as I was going there for depression. Turns out I had ADHD burnout which then caused depression due to feelings of failure.

Family crises like this can trigger ADHD burnout: “The SEN is news to us in the last 6 months but is dominating our family dynamic (things have got bad quick). In the meantime my husband seems to have lost control on daily life…”

ADHD burnout is literally when your brain shuts down. You may have compensated for it and managed to mask your forgetfulness and lack of focus before. But when you hit burnout, it’s like a switch and you lose all of it. You become unable to cope with day to day simple tasks. You can’t even remember if you brushed your teeth ten minutes after brushing them. Or where you left your morning coffee cup- did I even drink any coffee? You start a load of washing and when you discover it three days later still on the washer going mouldy you think your partner did it because you have no memory of doing it yourself.

Life becomes a total confusing blur that you stumble through. And if it goes unrecognised, the next step is depression because you fail at everything even the most simple of things no matter how hard you try. And everyone’s saying there can’t possibly be anything wrong with you, you’re just lazy or not prioritising properly.

So, I ask, has he been assessed by a psychiatrist? Or did you just do online quizzes and then decide he couldn’t possibly have ADHD?

I agree with a previous poster that the OP seems to have touched a nerve.

My life isn’t anywhere near this organised but it also doesn’t have to be - my DH and I are an effective team. We are both fully engaged and can just get on with things without constantly failing. Whether or not the OP’s DH has ADHD, he sounds incredibly difficult to parent with and it’s clear that his kids are also spotting his rate of failure and losing respect for him. Everything seems to be the OP’s responsibility to sort out, including her DH, and it seems very unfair.

@Onnabugeisha But have you actually had him assessed by a professional?

Why is it her job to get him assessed? It must be like having a 4th child.

It’s not like a 4th child because he is obviously an unwell adult struggling with executive functioning who needs help from his partner. Telling a person who’s executive functioning is in the toilet to deal with the labyrinth of the NHS to get into see a psychiatrist is like telling a wheelchair user they must run a marathon.

"But when you hit burnout, it’s like a switch and you lose all of it. You become unable to cope with day to day simple tasks. You can’t even remember if you brushed your teeth ten minutes after brushing them. Or where you left your morning coffee cup- did I even drink any coffee? You start a load of washing and when you discover it three days later still on the washer going mouldy you think your partner did it because you have no memory of doing it yourself."

I don't think that's necessarily ADHD burnout. Maybe it's just regular burnout. Anyone can burn out if the load is high enough.

When my kid was assessed for ADHD, the psychologist explained the diagnosis charts to us. Executive function is like a bell curve. Some people have amazing executive function. Others have executive function so poor as to be disabling. You can tell from thinking about this that someone with executive function on the left side of the bell curve, may be within a "normal" range (T-score) on an ADHD chart, but still struggle when the complexity of the tasks increases. For what it's worth, normal executive function in girls is higher on the chart than for boys. That is, the average girl has higher executive function than the average boy.

I have experienced burnout too, when life was very stressful or task complexity increased to be too high. Normally I manage life quite well. But I agree with what the above poster wrote, that when you burn out, it's possible to stop processing information altogether. The brain is an organ just like any other organ in the body.

In regard to the piano lessons, OP, you actually did not explain why you couldn't stop them. You explained why you don't want to stop them. That's different.

Well yes, but it sounds as if the DH is trying but not coping in the midst of a crisis, and the OP won't even compromise on piano lessons?

Teriyaki salmon doesn't take hours!
Salmon cooks really quickly, and teriyaki sauce takes a minute to mix (or just open a ready made bottle). It's not the dish he chose that is the problem.

Following.

Have you asked him how he would manage the household, if he decided?? How would he go about it??

Because not everyone would do the same thing.

For instance, I always put a meal on the table. It's not written down in a calendar ( I find this organizational chart stuff just creates work) but if you asked me I'd basically be able to tell you the next three day's dinners.

What strikes me about what you say is that:

You have too much going on

You need to step back a bit. If the kids are fed then it's fine. It's not ideal if they eat beans on toast every night or whatever... But you obviously have busy lives.

Your dh sounds totally overwhelmed. Yes, they are basic tasks, but there's too many of them.

This is so interesting and makes perfect sense. I think I must be other right of the curve,I actively enjoy planning and problem solving. The idea that you wouldn't accomadate piano ( or dance or football) because it meant more organisation is alien to me. The idea that others do is fascinating, the fact that this might be a normal thing to do is mind-blowing. To be fair my DM is v similar to me so I grew up around an "anything is possible" mindset. If I am honest DH has struggled with it at times, I think he would prefer a simpler life, I would die of boredom.

But you have to stop somewhere, surely? If I had infinite time, I would be playing six different musical instruments, writing a novel, and taking three master's degrees. At some point, I have to start saying no to things.

I also enjoy planning and problem solving, but can't stand following someone else's itinerary. I don't know that it's planning that's the issue here, but rather the relentless repetitive grind of just getting stuff done.

But you have to stop somewhere, surely? If I had infinite time, I would be playing six different musical instruments, writing a novel, and taking three master's degrees

Well yes, but it is when that point comes isn't it ? At the moment I have 2 jobs (not both full time), am on the Parish Council, run twice a week, am trying to hit my 10,000 steps, do pilates every morning, am pursuing an additional professional qualification as well as the shopping, cleaning, cooking and washing that goes along with a big house. Additional things this week are meeting DM for lunch tomorrow (made the booking weeks ago, ordered flowers yesterday) making a cake for someone leaving at work ,booking DD's Easter revision courses at school, taking the rabbit to the vet. I freely admit I don't get as much time to read as I would like but apart from that this level of activity suits me. Others (maybe most) would feel overwhelmed and others would need more stimulation.

Saying Dds can't do piano because we have Brownies at that time or even we can't afford it (although I would and have cut back savagely in other areas to keep up extra curriculars) but " it's just too much, I can't organise it" ? Not on my radar, which is why this thread is so interesting.

This. Why is your way the right way?

You could look into him being diagnosed with some form of neuro diversity. But that is a long process, and isn’t going to solve anything. Unfortunately you can put up all the charts if what to do, but if he won’t or can’t follow them it’s either going to be chaos or you have to do everything yourself.
What are his strengths? Can you get him to do tasks he is good at or any negative consequences only fall on him? If his behaviour is only recent is it possible it’s weaponised incompetence?
The only thing I can suggest is you change the schedule. You do anything that is going to be an issue if he does it. And he does a list of chores you delegate, for example cooking and freezing meals for the week.
can you hire help? I can only imagine how stressful your life must be.

Morning all

Some more things to think about.

Lots of people seem to find the easiest solution to be to tell me I am controlling, I love routine and I am relentlessly pushing extra curriculars.

Piano was more his idea - he is (was) heavily musical. In general the children love it and achieve a sense of accomplishment from it. It falls on one of his pick up days. My main role is to encourage practice (ashe can't remember to get that happening, and doesn't appear to hold that as important).

Back to the salmon - it might be quick for you to cook it, but that doesn't mean it is quick for dh. He would ponder a few recipes and stare at an open fridge for a while while the kids swirl around him. He would likely not put veg with it, and the children would likely not eat it, with dc3 causing violent upset at the unexpected meal (sensory issues). No veg is fine from time to time, not for most of the week. (So let's not contradict that).

I am not particularly wedded to routine, I am not anxious, I don't care for things to be just so. I'm just trying to come up with ways that we can function more effectively as a team.

I have had many conversations with dh about how he would manage if I wasn't there and he says it would be generally very difficult. I occasionally go away for 1 or 2 nights. they do survive, they might have fun, but he also stays up late just doing the school bags and clearing up tea, so I return to a bombsite and mountains of laundry and a few stories of forgotten school shoes. With dc3 as he is now I am much less confident that things would run smoothly.

I'll look into the ADHD thing more. I'm coming to an understanding of executive function issues which I now think is relevant. I'm grateful to this thread for bringing this forward in my mind. I'm well aware of strategic incompetence but that doesn't seem to be quite the thing.

I have a child with asd so I get it. I'm the organiser/planner. My dh really struggles with it. The only thing that worked for us was me working part time. So I do all the week day meals/clubs/school runs and housework. Dh literally comes homes eats tea. Entertains kids while I do pots and we do bedtime together. Weekends we share everything. We have less money obviously but it works for us so it's worth it.

I didn't mean to imply that you were controlling, it's just that I think I've been where you are now.

It happened when I took on too much. I had very high expectations of myself, and I relied on my partner to match my pace. It didn't work: he couldn't keep up, and I burnt myself out.

I've also been where your husband is, and it's not much fun. I really wanted to do better, but I just physically couldn't. I think the key thing was that I was trying to do things another person's way - I needed to do things my way.

I hate to say this but you do sound like your running things akin to a militaristic regime. He sounds like he's trying his best but needs more support. Your kids need to be understanding too - show them that there are children in this world who go to bed every night without good so salmon or pasta who cares, as long as they don't have allergies they should be able to adapt and appreciate what their dad and mum does for them. I think if you push him against the wall even more with this sort of rigorous activities/schedules it will only get worse and you're better off with a husband who is a bit organised than someone who uses the meltdown at home to go and be disloyal to you and the kids.

Fwiw, I don’t think you are controlling at all or that it is strategic incompetence. You observed his really obvious struggles began with the SEN diagnosis for your child. One thing to think about is that SEN runs in families (it has a genetic component) so he may have undiagnosed SEN himself.

Fwiw my adhd diagnosis took 2 weeks privately. It was expensive but compared to a lifetime of struggle and 'adhd tax' in the form of bank charges, late payments, replacing lost items, last minute panic purchases, missed return deadlines etc it was worth it 100 times over.

There are plenty of tools that can be used now though, without a diagnosis or medication to help. Might be worth looking at some to see if they make a difference.

If he has always been this way and is disorganised and has poor time-keeping at work then it is less likely to be strategic incompetence. Although if there has been a recent decline in memory relating to completion of tasks then I would get that checked out. It sounds like he could have an undiagnosed SEN to me.

DH has ASD (diagnosed as an adult after our child was diagnosed) and has issues with time-keeping, executive function and organisation. He also takes a long time to cook (but is great at it) and gets easily distracted. He has improved over time with the routine, but needs multiple alarms and reminders.

We also have two children with ASD. I get your frustration, it is hard work but to some extent you may have to accept this is how he is and find work arounds. Look at life factors, stress and events that disrupt routine can have a massive impact on ability to function. Renovation and a recent SEN diagnosis for your child are both stressful events that have had a big impact on your family. DH really struggled with DS being diagnosed because it brought up lots from his childhood and it was the first time he really considered that he may also have ASD (I had been suggesting it for years).