Organisational skills for husband who don't get it

[demotedreally]

Ok I know I am going to get a load of grief for having married a. Man who doesn't seem to get life, but perhaps some people can cut through the crap and help me out a bit. Things didn't used to be this bad but I would say have never been great in this area.

We have a busy life, 2 full time jobs, a renovation and 3 kids all at primary, at least one of whom has SEN. The SEN is news to us in the last 6 months but is dominating our family dynamic (things have got bad quick).

In the meantime my husband seems to have lost control on daily life and I am doing everything, non stop and helping him to do his stuff too.

In recent weeks and months - I have organized the shit out of our lives to try to help - we have routines, a calendar, white board, a meal planner. My eldest children help with it all and tend to know what is going on, who should be where and what is for tea.

Dh doesn't seem to have a clue. He doesn't follow the meal planner on his cooking nights which upsets everyone (causes a mtdown for sen child), prepares meals for my cooking nights, picks up kids on my nights, "forgets what day it is", can't get them to bed on time (last night was 2130 instead of 2015). They always leave the house late on his drop offs.

I am trying to get tips from the internet on parenting together but it is all about shared values etc. Like prioritizing education or approach to discipline. We are nowhere near those discussions. He has no skin in those games. I just do it. "He can't get them to read, do homework, practice piano" etc etc. He wastes a lot of time - by forgetting stuff or coming back for things etc, his job is dishwasher and it takes him much of the evening to load it and sweep the floor.

He gets everyone's backs up by just giving out instructions and repeating them, which doesn't work as an approach. He doesn't consider the impact of this,he doesn't have fun with them particularly or listen to them much.

He is loving towards them. He is very willing in lots of ways. For eg he forgot to go to b&q earlier but when I reminded him off he went. (I just wish he hadn't actually forgotten of course)

We have run out of words for a discussion on this all. It is just a row. And the tension is not helping the kids. And although they love him, they think he is a fool for forgetting to cook the agreed meal, not knowing it is non uniform day etc.

And the burden on me is ridiculous.
(He also can't manage sen child behavior and literally stands there while dc is violent and bites.)

How do I change this dynamic? We are stuck.

Who decided on the rota? You? Did DH have any input in it at all?

It's the easy arsehole thing to say, but if you want everything done your way, you need to accept that you're doing it all yourself.

I say this as a mother who has an autistic child who thrives on routine and DH who has ADHD and is a chaotic mess. The people who always say on these posts 'how does he manage in work?' always make me laugh because my DH is just as chaotic in work. Late, forgetting things, losing things, leaving things etc. He has always been like this before kids as well.

We also switch and have set days for jobs. On DH's I leave him to get on with it and have no input. Absolutely nothing is done how I would do it. But our kids have been brought up with mum and dad do things differently, so they need to deal with that and accept that. No one has died or nothing bad has happened because dad does it differently.

BTW. I am the one for strict rules and routines in our house. I am also the parent who was assessed as most likely to be autistic when my DS was getting assessed. Maybe take a step back and question why the routine is so important to you and how you also manage your own behaviour when stressed.

I hear you so clearly OP. My husband sounds very similar to yours- really willing, and devastated when he drops the ball (so I have to manage his emotions around it too) but a disaster at life really. I suspect inattentive ADHD in both him and our daughter. I find it goes in cycles with him though. At the moment he’s pretty good- does the washing up every night, remembers the bins, picks up the children from school (also randomly gets the time wrong sometimes) and does minimal cooking. But our life is less complicated than yours, and it’s taken a while to settle down into this phase. However, he’s just been offered a new job, and for the first time since having children, we’ll both be working full time, sometimes outside the home. I’m absolutely dreading the long adjustment phase, and I hope he’ll be able to hold the job down (that was an issue once before). Anyway, no advice, just to say, solidarity. You’re not alone, and of course it’s frustrating, no matter how willing he is.

I think the routine is as pared back as it can be.

The problem with teriyaki salmon is that Monday is pasta night, 2 kids are fussy eaters (the shouty type), salmon takes hours and they are hungry now and really they just all want pasta but DH thought it would be "nice". (I'd prefer teriyaki salmon and I am sure he would, but I more prefer not coming home to everyone literally screaming and clawing at my body as I walk in the door)

His dance drop off is at the school, which he drives by on the way to work and the need to leave at 0745. He aims to leave for work at 0740. I take sen child at normal drop off and try to have 1-1 time with him. I could cancel it but it should work and it would be detriment to the kids.

He wouldn't take them to the park.

I also think you've got too much actually going on. 3 kids? Ballet lessons? Piano lessons? Both work full time? Renovation? SEN child?

We have 2 kids, one is autistic. DS can't cope with leaving the house in the evening after school to go to the supermarket. Never mind being carted around clubs for his sibling. DH and I work full time. It's a lot just managing day to day life. Without all the stuff you have on your plate. You need to lighten the load and something needs to give while the renovation is happening. Because it sounds like no one in your house is coping with the schedule.

This is a really helpful post and some of the others have been too. Basically a sense that this is a phase and that there is a long lead in time to managing to cope with stuff.

Some really helpful solidarity in here. No silver bullets somehow! But I am glad I posted.

The end is in sight for the renovation. It was to give each child a bedroom. Sen child now has one which has helped immensely and we just need to paint one more child's one and get carpets etc. We are at the stage of pushing through to get to the end. But someone needs to remember when the carpet person is coming and leave out a key etc. I do that too

It sounds like you might need some external childcare OP?

I feel stressed just reading how much you have on your plate as a family, and agree with PP you should pare it back a bit. I have ADHD and try to be fairly "routinised" in our family life but if DH tried to organise me to to that extent I would get more stressed to be honest - it's a lot to follow. Could your DH be feeling very overwhelmed? What does he say when you talk to him about it?

What you have described… sounds a very unsettled, hectic and unhappy family environment for everyone.

can't get them to bed on time (last night was 2130 instead of 2015)

Where were you last night?

@demotedreally ADHD isn't autism, it manifests in organisational issues a lot of the time.

Absolutely nothing is done how I would do it. But our kids have been brought up with mum and dad do things differently, so they need to deal with that and accept that. No one has died or nothing bad has happened because dad does it differently.

I think this is key. Taking the water bottles as a small example - so some days he fills 3, and the 2 older DC moan. Oh well! It’s only water. They can fill the bottle they prefer. Nothing is lost or wasted except some water, and we’re lucky enough to have it on tap. Tell them that when they moan to you. Don’t get involved - just say, Ah well, Dad was trying to help, but it’s not a big deal, is it? Just get yourself a different bottle. Tell your DH, Oh, don’t worry about them moaning. No big deal. Just let them fill another bottle, it’s not worth a fight.

Salmon v pasta. Sort of worth a fight. Your DH needs to understand that he should cook the pasta for the DC, as that’s what they were expecting, and that you’d love to eat the salmon with him later/on Friday etc. He can’t make last minute changes but equally I’d be annoyed by never being able to choose to cook something I liked because of a rigid menu. This is also a time where you need to be breezy - Oh, Dad’s cooked salmon? Well, I’m sure it will be great. You would have preferred pasta like the meal plan? I understand, but the salmon is being cooked now so we’ll have it tonight and have a chat about how you guys find changes to the menu annoying. Then have the chat with DH later, out of the dinner time in the kitchen stress period.

Why is your DH so involved in the piano issue? Is it his insistence they learn?

Late drop-offs is frustrating, that is an issue worth tackling. But one 30-minute dance class before school starts doesn’t sound like it’s worth it overall if it’s genuinely causing an issue to have 1 morning in the week where the usual routine is disrupted and it never goes well. I’d can that class. You want the alone time for your youngest SEN DC but realistically it’s causing more stress.

To a certain extent, you need to accept that you will do more and that’s how it is. You’re more able to cope. To manage this, there are things that are not worth a fight or even a discussion.

This sounds very similar to our house. I plan and accept that I need a level of control. DH doesn’t plan, but once I learned that it was OK to let him freewheel when it was his turn to cook, a lot of tension went.

DH was diagnosed with ADHD late in life - he is doing well now and understands the impact on the DC and me. In the run up to diagnosis, he was dreadful though. Possibly the emotional build up, but OMG he was hard to live with.

OP who said your DH didn’t meet the diagnostic criteria? Has he actually been assessed?

Another one saying it sounds like ADHD. We have two DC and DH coped quite well until number2 arrived and Covid stripped him of his routine. DH was only diagnosed as an adult but turns out his DP had tried to get him support as a child before much was known.
For diagnosis I went with him and spoke directly to the psychiatrist so there was chance for him to minimize his symptoms and challenges.
Like you OP I have to be on top of everything all the time always. Ive scheduled everything. We've set reminders on his phone and watch. We have a digital timer and when he is really struggling it's set to recurrent 5minute bursts to keep him on track.
It's exhausting and draining. But I have found that putting my own boundaries in place has been helpful. I prioritize the DC and myself now and then DH if I have anything left over.

So so so much is screaming ADHD and knackered executive function. What’s he like when he’s had a fuckaton of coffee?

I agree with this.

I'm similar to your dh in some ways. I struggle with executive function and while I try, none of this comes naturally to me. I sympathise with you as it is hard to live with and understand someone with exec dysfunction issues when those things come easy to you.

I know I need to keep my life simple, not overschedule, build in time for faffing or losing things. For me this means chosing to work part time, and chosing to turn down certain activities, and not take on major projects. I get by and make gradual progress on the things that matter to me, but slower than a hyper organised person would. I have other strengths, which hopefully balance this out.

It sounds like you have high standards and have built a perfect routine based on the way your brain works. But that doesn't work for him. I know that you want the best for your kids, renovation, piano lessons, ballet lessons, choice to fill up their own water bottle. But those things, all together, might not be compatible with your DH's executive function abilities. If you want him to take 50% of the load, then you can't set the load at more than twice what he can handle.

I'd recommend thinking about how you would make different parenting choices if you both had DH's brain. E.g. fewer clubs perhaps. Your family would get way less "done" but that's not necessarily a bad thing, if it means you can be relaxed and have fun together instead.

I know it's just a tiny example, but the water bottle, imagine that it genuinely is hard to remember to fill one up and check the other two. Not impossible, but harder than you yourself find it. Could you instead set the rule that the older two are responsible for remembering? If they forget, there's a natural consequence at school that they have to ask the teacher for water, and after a couple of times they learn. If they're too young to remember, DH goes back to doing it the way he did before.

If you want him to take 50% of the load, then you can't set the load at more than twice what he can handle.
This is actually something that had never occurred to me before, but it’s a real lightbulb moment for me. I’m sure my DH struggles with executive function and the concept of load here feels really relevant. Thank you so much.

The 10 minutes late to work thing - that's how ADHD works. You can get to work on time, but doing that means that there's nothing left. You use all of your executive function at work.

I agree. I'm a very full on person, but there is absolutely no way I could handle that schedule.

Sounds like he's overwhelmed and anxious, and doesn't try to do stuff as in his brain, he's only going to fuck it up anyway. Adhd is shouting at me here. I have autism and adhd, diagnosed with the latter 6 months ago and meds have made a huge difference.

I'd be absolutely astounded if he doesn't meet criteria for an ADHD diagnosis I'm not a doctor obviously nor am I "diagnosing" him, I'm just wondering if you've read the criteria overly literally - they often do need "translating" by a professional because the issue is that the criteria are based on children and some of them are really unintuitive for adults, particularly these:

• "Driven by a motor" - this is a very accurate description of what it looks like to adults when a child is in total sensory overload/dysregulation, but it's not necessarily how they feel inside, adults also typically don't get into the same state because they have developed coping strategies. You could replace it with racing thoughts, "chatterbox brain".
• Leaving seat in situations where it's expected that the person stays seated - again, most adults have grown out of this as it is something which gets easier with age, but also, many adults with hyperactive ADHD avoid situations where they are expected to sit still for long periods of time, choosing to work in physical trades rather than in an office for example.
• Unable to attend to daily activities quietly (adapted from "unable to play quietly") - again most adults have grown out of the need to constantly make noise in a socially unacceptable way. What you might find instead is irritating habits like pen clicking or drumming fingers on a desk.

See if you can find an "Adult ADHD screener" or a ratings scale. Those are typically more effective than looking directly at the DSM symptoms list (in addition, adults only need 5 items across the whole of the DSM list).

I am feeling bulldozed just reading about your charts etc - you seem to have made life more complicated and your own anxiety seems to be adding fuel to the fire.

There is too much going on IMHO - children will remember how they felt in their home environment and that emotional tone is set by the parents - aim hard for calm, peaceful, low key so there is space for everyone to relax and develop and express their own unique personality in a supportive and encouraging environment.

Do they need piano lessons etc?

Are you trying to do too much?

Absorbing, coming to terms with and adapt family life to an SEN child is a huge transition that takes time and patient and focus. It has to be prioritised so other stuff has to give as all of our time, energy and headspace is finite.

How would you feel dropping the rope? Would you feel out of anxious, angry and control if water bottles / pasta / salmon were not in the ‘correct’ order.

All of your DC will absorb this stress and become anxious with their own behavioural issues.

The best thing you can give your DC is a calm and peaceful home where everyone is treated with kindness and respect.

Keep it simple.

Is your DH passive aggressively ‘acting out’ and subconsciously resisting your micromanaging by sabotaging your plans?

Did he have a controlling parent growing up?

I am not suggesting you are controlling - I can see that you have been triggered to micro manage as the stress has increased but suggest that this is backfiring (been there, done that - understand the frustration and resentment).

What is the nature of the SEN? Could you or your DH have similar traits? I am being diagnosed for ADHD late in life but my ‘traits’ as a full time high flying mother of 4 busy DC - were hyper focus and too busy. It was not good for an of us.

Also did the child with SEN when undiagnosed cause stress?

This is what I’m like, it’s a fucking nightmare.

Does sound like inattentive type ADHD.

It sounds very much like your DH has ADHD. He could be inattentive not hyperactive. Less common in men.
In our ND household I have realised less activities make a happier less rushed family life. DD/SEN children need time to decompress from life outside the home. Especially when it is you and DH taking them to all these places. What could you stop? Yes it’s lovely to plan the piano but if you stop for a year or so to mark the difference it’s ok.
Batch cooking together at the weekend could be your friend.
I hope you get it sorted. It sounds hard got everyone

It sounds like you have a complicated life and need to simplify. Maybe you need to drop one of the kids' activities. Ballet or piano, not both, at least for now. I know it's hard to make choices that seem to decrease the children's quality of life, but after-school activities are not essential for life and getting to school on time is more important. Maintaining a functioning marriage is also important for your children.

Can you all batch cook on the weekends so dinner can be microwaving something frozen that is was made on the weekend? If egg-on-toast is a dinner then can egg salad sandwiches also be a dinner, one that can be made in advance and the kids get themselves?

Some of the things you describe just seem so piddly. Two kids fill their own water bottles but one gets his filled by dad. Why can't the two who fill their own just... fill their own? Just take it off his plate, if they know how to do it. It sounds like it's because sometimes they don't fill their own, so dad has to check, but when they fill their own he forgets to check. But he's not allowed to just fill theirs FOR them because that "won't fly." When he was filling all three bottles, sounds like that was working for him. But he's been required to switch to a more complicated system that doesn't work for him, because it's what the kids prefer, and when things go wrong it's his fault, even though he didn't pick that system.

How old are the kids?