Does he still love her?

[Efhswkr]

I’ve been with my DP for almost a year and a half. We are happy together there’s just one issue…his ex.

background:

Me and DP started dating what I believed to be two years after his and his ex separated. However, I recently found out that it was only actually weeks after they last slept together. They kept apparently meeting up and sleeping together after their breakup and once he got with me this ended. His ex does also have a partner now.

DP and his ex are going through some legal processes as the minute as they are trying to sell their house and it’s not selling/buyers keep dropping out.

The issue is they keep what I feel like coming up with excuses to talk to each other. DP and ex have been having zoom calls the two of them to sort through “legal” stuff even though they have solicitors and there’s no need too. He says it’s just to make things more amicable. They’ve had about six of these calls now. He always asks me to go upstairs during these calls or will have them at work. Him and his ex were together 5 years.

Now, they’ve got to meet to sign some document. I did look at his emails and saw that she had suggested they do it via post, she signs it and then he signs it etc rather than meet and DP had replied that he would like to meet with her as he felt they’ve both changed the past few years, are in better places and it would be good to get it signed and sorted in person- and she’s now agreed. He even offered to meet her on zoom or give her a call if she wanted to talk again before they met as he understands they’ll be “anxious” to see each other.

There was also some emails where he’d helped her with a work project (they both are the same industry). I only saw these emails this morning so he doesn’t know I’ve read them yet.

I just feel sort of like shit. He tells me that nothing is untoward, they both have partners and he loves me, and it’s just a polite and kind way of sorting things amicably but they have no kids and I sort of expected it to be clean cut no contact again or contact just through solicitors.

I just don’t know what to make of it all. The rest of our relationship is really happy. I’m pretty sure they’ve not seen each other as she’s up in Scotland and we are in the south west- so it’s not like he’s been sneaking off to see her but it’s just so hard

Does anyone have any advice?

i think you already know op. I’m so sorry. He’s not going to admit it, what would he the point, she’s clearly given him the knock back. It does look like he’s tried, I’m sorry.

I don’t know what you can do if you can’t get out the lease. As this is going to eat you up. There’s no way to rescue your self esteem if you know you’re second choice and that he tried to get back with her.

what an utter mess he’s made

He asked her in the email “to not write off the idea of seeing him and to please consider it, and that he would understand if not but would like too”

I agree this sounds 'off' @Efhswkr . It's not like they live in or near the same town. Even if they met half way, it'd take really motivation and going out of their way to meet. We all know what usually motivates men to that extent- hoping they can get a shag/persuade a woman into a shag once they meet in the flesh.

I don't think she'll end up meeting him. Who would drive 4 hours or something (and that's to meet half way) to meet an ex they're no longer into (we've no indication she's interested) when they can do it by post?

I think you need to at least read the ops posts..

Well that horse has bolted

It’s definitely coming from him isn’t it?

Yes it is. Sorry.

Why would it take 5 hours to sign a couple of documents?

I'd be rethinking this relationship (AKA ending it).

I don't think he's necessarily still got feelings for her, but it sounds like he doesn't want to let go.

I've known women play this game after ending a relationship. They don't want the guy, but they want the ego boost of knowing he's still in love and would have them back in a trice if asked.

Invariably the guy then found someone else, the woman would then either drop everything and rush to get back with him.... only to drop him again once she'd had enough of an ego boost, or she'd suddenly pick a new partner of her own purely for the purposes of making the ex jealous.

I hope for your sake OP that your man isn't doing the latter :(

What does “don’t be a stranger” mean in this context?

It means "I want to keep seeing you, please let me keep seeing you."

Just the same as what he meant by all his unnecessary phone calls & zooms & this ridiculous contrivance of "signing documents".

The lie about the end-date of their relationship is a significant worry, as is the need for privacy during the Zoom calls.

BUT “Don’t be a stranger” sounds quite casual and platonic to me. And it’s clear that nothing romantic happened when they met yesterday.

I’m really not sure, OP. Remaining friends when you have joint kids is fantastic but this isn’t the case here. Legal matters can be handled without meeting up. Hopefully it will fizzle out (and tbh she doesn’t sound that bothered about being mates with him anyway). It’s just the worry for you that if she changed her mind, he might be keen….

@Efhswkr

I see something else in it. To me - he feels guilty he fell out of love and left. And he probably on a human level likes her - it just wasn’t enough for a relationship.
Thats why sex kept happening after he tried to leave/separate. She didn’t want him to leave. He felt guilty, etc
Happens often.

Dont be a stranger isn’t a pick up line. It’s just what it says on the tin - ‘I hope we all have closure now that we sorted the financials. We don’t work as a couple. But as people we have shared a friendly connection. And one doesn’t need to ‘break up’ with a friend once romantic entanglement finisher’

In your place - I’d stop tormenting yourself. You are looking for problems where there isn’t any.
If he wanted to be with her - he’d gone back to her back after he left.
He didn’t.

I see something else in it. To me - he feels guilty he fell out of love and left. And he probably on a human level likes her - it just wasn’t enough for a relationship.Thats why sex kept happening after he tried to leave/separate. She didn’t want him to leave. He felt guilty, etc

That’s a very unusual thing to see. 😂A man only having sex as he feels guilty and bad for her, not as he fancies a shag.

I hate to admit it but I’d assume some cross over at the start of your relationship op. I doubt he stopped sleeping with her immediately on meeting you.

I also agree with the pp.the need for privacy and you not to be seen on zoom calls is very concerning. Does she know you live together?

I don't know if he loves her etc but that's almost irrelevant. You deserve better and on that basis he would be gone.

I agree. Thanks for your support, this is my first relationship and I think I'm blind to certain things as I really don’t have a idea of what is “normal”

See this would ring alarm bells with me as he sounds manipulative. He also seems desperate to be friends even though she doesn't seem to want to be. He doesn't really understand the boundaries that she seems to be trying to put in place.

It doesn't matter what's 'normal'. Your ideal for your relationship isn't 'normal', it's 'happy' or 'content' or 'secure' or 'loving', or... you tell us, what is it that you want. Do you want to feel the way about your relationship that you do? Or would you like to feel differently?

It's really not about what's normal. or watching out for red flags; it's about how you feel. If something isn't 'normal', it doesn't make it a problem. If something is normal, that doesn't make it ok (for example, many people in many relationships drink unhealthy amounts of alcohol that's 'normal' but not 'ok')

If something feels bad to you, then it is bad for you, and you need to take responsibility for removing the problem, either by making your feelings clear and finding that they are respected (i.e. you say you don't feel comfortable when he does x/y/z, and he stops, because you feeling comfortable is important to him) or, if that fails, and the person disrespects your feelings, you need to take responsibility for leaving them behind.

Your level of experience is irrelevant. Your level of self respect is everything.

Otherwise, it would be right to put up with things you didn't like, just because they were normal. You must be able to see that that wouldn't be right?

I read OP's posts but didn't see one or two of them for some reason.

And he’s responded to her saying “please don’t be a stranger” and if you need to talk anytime I’m here. She hasn’t replied.

@Efhswkr Ugh! It means he wants her to keep in touch. But it's really cheesy. Bloke's desperate.

Thanks for your support, this is my first relationship and I think I'm blind to certain things as I really don’t have a idea of what is “normal”

I don't think you've particularly missed a trick OP. You knew all this was wrong.

Ok you let pass that he lied a bit about the start. That'll be something you probably won't tolerate again in a future relationship maybe. But you're not particularly abnormal in having let that go. We see it often on here that women have let red flags slide, no matter how many relationships they've had.

We're all learning and helping each other.

It's really not about what's normal. or watching out for red flags

@Watchkeys I know this is your thing, but I really think there are such a thing as clear, objective red flags. Lying is one of them.

There's things that might be an individual woman's subjective dislike, but there's some that are pretty much seen as not ok to virtually everyone everywhere, too, and are generally considered a bad sign/not decent behaviour in a relationship.

To give a for instance, that is how we can define/describe an abusive relationship. Because some things such as being called a bitch feel unpleasant to everyone and are not ok, and a sign that further nasty stuff might occur. I mean, some people might be ok with a slanging match but most people aren't.

And virtually everyone would be unhappy with lying too.

I was with my ex for 6 years and got divorced and I'd be uncomfortable about this.

We didn't have kids and had a fairly amicable divorce instigated by me. When we separate but were still single, we stayed in fairly regular contact but the minute he got a partner, and pretty soon after that I found a partner, our contact reduced to just divorce or practical arrangements. And 2 years later when we divorced, we had no in-person contact other than when I went to our old place to collect the last of my stuff - but my DP came with me to help me. I would never have wanted a 5 hour conversation with him alone!!!! We would both have thought it disrespectful to our DPs.

Many years later, our only contact is liking posts on social media or wishing each other on birthdays.

To me it seems like your bf is still hung up on his ex... No advice other than, it might be too early for him to date as the breakup is still raw. I wouldn't want to be the rebound so you'll have to figure out whether he's completely over his divorce or needs time alone to figure it out...HOWEVER it could also be he feels guilt for having ended it, though all this time later I'd be a bit concerned he still feels that way. Especially if she has a new partner.

Not sure what to advise other than to consider if you really feel comfortable with him. If you're checking his emails this early on, that's not healthy - show a lot of distrust. And I don't think that will change.

It's one thing to respect and want the best for your ex, it's another having virtual dates and creating a feeble excuse for a meet up!

It means I'm here if you ever want to take me back

It means I fucked up the marriage and would at any point like to make it up to you, but you probably won't let me.

I'd say he definitely isn't over her.

Either that, or his ego can't cope with someone getting over him, so he needs to keep her interested and show he could get her back if he wanted to.

Warning signs each on their own, but added together - I don't think he's a keeper:

• He lied about how long they'd been split up. Good relationships are centred on trust. You know you can't trust him.
• He sends you upstairs when he talks to her on zoom. I'm utterly shocked at this. I wouldn't have left. That's your home and he's sending you away so that either a) he can pretend you don't live there or b) you don't hear things they are saying that are private between them such as flirting or c) both.
• He talks to her more than he needs to, udner the pretence of it being about something legal, when it really wasn't necessary.
• He inisists - begs her - to meet even though they love hundreds of miles apart.

None of this is reasonable. It's fine to stay friendly with an ex of course. But lying to your current partner, sending them away when you're talking to the ex, travelling hundreds of miles to see the ex - yeah he isn't over her.

Don't let him try to convince you you're being unreasonable. It's OK to want to be with someone who you trust and who puts you above their ex.

You received advice and it seems like you ignored all of it.

kindly you seem a bit desperate to cling on to a man who clearly prefers someone else but as he can’t have her he is sticking with you

Why on earth did you agree to him meeting her?!

5 hours!!!! What on earth were they doing during that time - a signature takes a second

Your gut is telling you something, we are telling you something and even though you know what we are saying is true you have entered into a rental agreement

Honestly he might love you or grow to forget about her but she’s the one imo who he is hankering after……fine if he wants to be that person but you have also chosen to hang on

good luck with him…..

Hardly desperate. We just signed a 12 month tenancy just before this all happened, as I said I’m trying to navigate this and it’s my first proper relationship. I didn’t ignore any advice but ultimately what can I do? Chain him to a radiator and say that he can’t go? Become abusive in an effort to keep him?